Why does MF's passive get cancelled by minion aggro?

Remlap1223··20 votes·5,737 views

I'm legitimately curious about this because Garen's doesn't. I feel that Miss Fortune can sometimes end up being really crippled because the minions can blow a fuse and chase her into the jungle. Garen gets his insane health regeneration immune to minion damage, which allows him to push minion waves with impunity, so i think the least we could do is cancel that out for Miss Fortune so that she can chase a fleeing Sivir better without that one purple minion just gutting her movement speed. It'd allow Miss Fortune to better survive in lane, while still having champions like Twitch and Zyra to counter her.

18 Comments

RiotRiot ShadowStorm14 votes

(Not a champ designer or on the balance team, so this is just my opinion as a frequent MF player)

TL;DR: I think this would make her a lot stronger than it might seem at first.

First, just some general thoughts on her passive:

Movement speed is really, really powerful. Especially +70, which puts her at 395 without boots (that's faster than a Master Yi with Boots of Speed). This speed, combined with Q, allows her to bully lanes pretty hard early, so it's important to have it get knocked off in lane. That gives windows to fight her "fairly".

To the suggestion of preventing minion aggro from dropping it:

It's usually the caster minions that knock off the passive, since you're shooting Q through them to harass. And that's actually pretty important for gating her harass ability. If they didn't do this, you could harass with impunity, and then rush at them with ~400 MS with no downtime.

She would essentially have all of her current harass power, PLUS the ability to rush at you like Draven does. Only she'd rush at you with her auto->Q pattern*, and the ramping magic damage (and grievous wounds!) from Impure Shots.

As small of a change as that might seem to be, I really think that would put her over the top. If we made that, I'm afraid we'd have to trim some of her more obvious power. And at that point, I'm not even sure it's an overall improvement.


*To compare to Draven some more:

At level 3 (two points in Q), Draven's axe does (total AD + 55% total AD) damage, while Miss Fortune's auto->Q combo does (total AD + 85% total AD + 35) to the main target. That's a bit more damage up front, and probably evens out at around 2 or 3 autos. That's about what you'd expect to get from an early level all-in rush like this. Depends a bit on if Draven catches his axes (or has 2 before going in), but it's a similar level of all-in damage.

Remlap12233 votes

Well despite whether or not you work in the balance department, I still appreciate Reds commenting. MF is my main ADC, she was the first one I played (Ryze was my tutorial champion), and while you make very valid points, I still say that kiting Miss Fortune can do the same thing without RNGesus knocking you off your high horse because the purple minion decided to go Rambo on you. Why not nerf Strut's movement speed by like say, 20 points, and allow her to charge forward past minion waves? Draven already counters Miss Fortune, it would help her get back into a viable ADC choice, and Ashe suddenly just got a lot more viable as well?

Tsunday6 votes

Rather than knocking back her passive's general MS bonus to let her keep it when she gets hit by minions I'd like to see minions disable her passive to 1/2 instead of knocking it up all the way. Like right now her passive has to charge, if they made it so her passive MS bonus was cut in half when a minion hit her, it would mean that she should have a wide range of MS bonuses (depending on when she was hit) and that she wouldn't necessarily have charging potential but she'd still have the ability to use her strut as something more than "I'm going to get to lane really fast"

TEAM of ZOMBIES1 votes

Rather than knocking back her passive's general MS bonus to let her keep it when she gets hit by minions I'd like to see minions disable her passive to 1/2 instead of knocking it up all the way. Like right now her passive has to charge, if they made it so her passive MS bonus was cut in half when a minion hit her, it would mean that she should have a wide range of MS bonuses (depending on when she was hit) and that she wouldn't necessarily have charging potential but she'd still have the ability to use her strut as something more than "I'm going to get to lane really fast"

This is the same thought I had, so it's a great idea. :)

Skyhawke1 votes

To add to this--I believe that as designed right now, Stut provides powerful bonuses in roaming (not common on an ADC, but still) and getting back to lane after recall. Additionally, it gives MF a strong ability to position her ultimate as a late game teamfight starts. Making it a harass/bully tool as well might be too much.

As others have brought up, you could dilute the power of Strut to make it less overbearing in a harass situation, but I almost like the clear, focused strengths of the skill now.

Serpents Embrace3 votes

Garen's did fall off at minion agro for a long time but it was changed because unlike Miss Fortune he has to be in melee range to last hit and push - the chances of a stay ranged creep getting an auto on him was so likely his passive was pretty much always down.

Eapenator3 votes

This thread has been made before many times and honestly, I am pretty sure Riot understands this issue. The only reason this has probably been left alone is because either

  1. Mf is in a good spot right now and doesn't need changes (even though this change wouldn't affect much)

  2. They are planning changes for her passive - while I can't say how or why, there was talk with rioters recently about grievous wounds and how it is a outdated (currently on her active w), so maybe they might make her w interact with passive.

Who knows, but making another thread to raise awareness is never a bad thing, keep it up buddy

God Of Avacyn2 votes

I think that garen is a tanky fighter, and if minions disabled his passive, he wouldnt be very good in engages, and miss fortune as a squishy adc. I see where your coming from though.

Check out my fullscreen client option idea here!

Remlap12231 votes

Well that's the point, Miss Fortune's a squishy ADC, specifically a squishy ADC with no escape options outside of her passive. Her E's channel time and level 1 slow is too small to effectively escape. I feel like taking out the minion aggro would be very helpful since like Garen (as you just mentioned), her passive helps her do her job better. As for the full screen client option, it sucks. Not bagging on you, but I play Smite, and I much prefer the windowed client over full screen. I'd like the idea of an option, but I think you'll be disappointed.

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

While it's no dash or jump, she still has an AoE slow.

Jinxed Amulet2 votes

I wonder how much of a difference it'd make if they removed the minion aggro part. Doesn't hurt for them to try in PBE in future patches. I'd personally like to see it just to get a feel for the impact it could have on her play-style. Might make her a front-runner for an even greater early game dueling power.

SuperPsyze2 votes

That is one of the reasons why she's fallen behind other AD carries like Lucian, Tristana, and Vayne.

The game is about mobility. MF can get to places quickly, but can't really engage or disengage in any capacity.

Binxy Prime2 votes

So you can't chase people past minions for free, its not the same as Garens.

AvariceSyn2 votes

MF is one of the strongest early game lane bullies. The only thing that keeps her from spamming (other than high mana costs) is her passive. To an MF player, not having your passive up feels like a 50% slow/cripple. You have to choose your harass wisely and be more tactical with double up to avoid taking minion aggro and losing that massive speed boost. She may not have mobility outside of that, but that's also what allows MF to still be a viable pick in the mobility meta.

If she didn't lose her passive from minion aggro, there's nothing to stop her from being the bottom lane monster I remember from S2.

Think about all of the movement speed items they added to the game recently. Zephyr, revamped Phantom Dancer, revamped Shurelya's, boot enchantments, etc. It's extremely difficult to get away from a movement speed ADC (include ms quints and 3 or 5 boots with furor and kiss your ass goodbye).

Fenrisulfr1 votes

Yeah. You must be new, dude.

Basically, if MF's passive was allowed to not be knocked off by Minion Aggro, it'd make her have a near-constant +70 MS at all times. Knowing how to manipulate and play the minion aggro is how you become a better player overall anyways. Garen is different since top lane is about sustain and if he doesn't want his passive knocked, he almost has to self deny himself minions at the price. This isn't health regen. This is just movement speed.

CharQueen1 votes

These passive ability threads seem odd to me. From Ashe's to MF's, those passives can be easily kept. And, with the way that I play at least, I try to stay in a position where I have the advantage. Typically, this just means that I have my support with me, I am behind my minions, I have my E ready ( or flash and shield ). I find MF's passive to be very helpful when it comes to simply getting to your lane. I don't roam that much unless I have a definite gank set up for mid. MF's passive allows me to not worry about buying anything for movement speed early game. Therefore, I can focus on sustain or damage/

ScottyRawr1 votes

I've always had mixed feelings on this. I feel like maybe lowering it from 70 and trying it would be nice. I mean they do want to try more things on PBE anyways. Plus I've always felt it was a little weird that Teemo could keep his MS even if minions hit him, but MF couldn't.

An English Guy1 votes

MF would be impossible to escape from if her passive wasn't cancelled by minions, and would be pretty much the fastest champion in the game bar janna. It would just give her far too much mobility and chase/escape potential

More from Gameplay

More by Remlap1223