I'm done of Lucian being either hot garbage or broken depending on the meta

D357R0Y3R·Dec 30, 2018·45 votes·15,642 views

Can you finally give him some decent amount of work? since 2014 you've done nothing but:

-gut his range -buff his damage

ITS TIME TO STOP

he became the most feast or famin champion in this ridiculous game, without any form of useful CC or utility his kit is full of damage and mobility.

if he gets ahead, and the meta is a meta where long ranged adcs like are trash, you might go afk because it's over.

I just watched my match history and I've been able to play him ONCE since 20 games, he's either permabanned or instantly first picked by the enemy team.

It's been since forever that Lucian was never balanced, he either becomes the most broken champion in the game or he's just a troll pick with 40% win rate.

please work on him

55 Comments

Moody PDec 30, 201820 votes

Id kind of like his W to do something team related to be honest, rare occasion I play him it feels like such a crappy spell past the lvl 1 strats

the shy topDec 30, 20183 votes

They cant add something good to lucian without taking something away.

Tomoe GozenDec 31, 20181 votes

Ezreal's mini update?

boricCentaur1Dec 30, 201816 votes

His passive needs to go its too problematic it allows him to have way to many positive interactions with items and runes.

D357R0Y3RDec 30, 20183 votes

{quoted}

it allows him to have way to many positive interactions with items and runes.

That doesn't really matter honnestly, having interactions with items and runes doesn't create an imbalanced champion

However, having a champion only designed to deal damage does create an imbalanced champion

Bronze GOATDec 30, 20184 votes

I mean he's an ADC, that's kind of the point. Yes, he can be healthier overall but every marksmen except like a handful are pretty much just walking dmg.

Moody PDec 30, 20183 votes

And almost every ADC should be changed because of that

Bronze GOATDec 30, 20183 votes

Then you'd have to change every assassin too. People play these classes, obviously they enjoy the gameplay.

D357R0Y3RDec 30, 20183 votes

Riot during the assassin rework intended to change that

but they failed (except with talon's parkour, and giving rengar a QSS)

the change they made to zed was making him stealing AD what a joke

D357R0Y3RDec 30, 20184 votes

most adcs who only deal damage are balance issues

Caitlyn offers damage, AND sieging potential Tristana has an AOE knock back making her good against dive compositions Ashe has a long ranged stun to counter channeling spells like jhin or xerath Jhin has permanent ghost countering champions who run fast and ignore cc like Olaf Varus has antihealing

on the other hand, you have vayne/jinx/lucian who were never balanced because they're only picked if they're broken

Bronze GOATDec 30, 20185 votes

Wait, I don't understand. You said "Most adcs who only deal damage are balance issues." Then said "vayne/jinx/lucian who were never balanced because they're only picked if they're broken". Since those marksmen only bring a team damage I think u got a typo or condratiction there.

D357R0Y3RDec 30, 20184 votes

no, those adcs are only picked if they're broken it's not a typo

they don't offer anything than damage, so they only become meta if their damage output is too high like Lucian

Sire HippingtonDec 31, 20181 votes

I agree on the lucian thing and that damage only champs are failed designs that are hard to balance.

However, your other examples fail.

Vayne has specific anti tank damage to give her a niche beyond just allaaround high damage, she has one of the best selfpeels vs assasins with her frquent invis and her E is an instant point n click hard cc, which can be very important when faceing a chamo like kata or nunu, the knockback can also deny something like a gallio engage and can be buffered to knock amumu out of his Q to deny engages, so while she is amongs the more damage focused picks, she DOES have some utillity and other trades that sepperate her from other DDs.

Jinx has Zonecontroll from her Chompers, a bit pickpotential fom the strong longranged slow on W, and her siegeing is nearly on pair with cait and tris and her cleanup is superb, both vs champs and objecitves.

Lucian and Ezreal are the only adc that really offer NOTHING but damage...

Nicolasbo143Dec 30, 20182 votes

{quoted}

most adcs who only deal damage are balance issues

Caitlyn offers damage, AND sieging potential Tristana has an AOE knock back making her good against dive compositions Ashe has a long ranged stun to counter channeling spells like jhin or xerath Jhin has permanent ghost countering champions who run fast and ignore cc like Olaf Varus has antihealing

on the other hand, you have vayne/jinx/lucian who were never balanced because they're only picked if they're broken

Jinx can root and slow enemies, and provides AOE dmg, along with an ult that snipes. Vayne can wall stun enemies for self peel (unique) and also has mobility and stealth.

D357R0Y3RDec 30, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Jinx can root and slow enemies

you don't pick jinx because "she can root!" nobody cares about that, if you want cc might as well pick cait she offers that+better sieging.

AOE dmg

thank you, you just proved my point

Nicolasbo143Dec 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

you don't pick jinx because "she can root!" nobody cares about that, if you want cc might as well pick cait she offers that+better sieging.

thank you, you just proved my point

Jinx also takes down turrets very fast. Look one the main ideals of league is to do damage, whether to enemies or enemy structures. Assassins and mages and ADC, all need to do damage. And your point was that some ADCs are not all the same.

D357R0Y3RDec 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Jinx also takes down turrets very fast.

and so does tristana, and cait (since they made headshot procs on towers), and vayne (since Q has 1 sec cd and now procs on towers as well)

so where were we?

Daddy AntsDec 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

and so does tristana, and cait (since headshot procs on towers), and vayne (since Q has 1 sec cd and now procs on towers as well)

so where were we?

Vayne's the slowest out of those 3 when it comes to Tower taking.

Nicolasbo143Dec 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

and so does tristana, and cait (since they made headshot procs on towers), and vayne (since Q has 1 sec cd and now procs on towers as well)

so where were we?

You tell me, because you seem upset about how similar adcs are. I agree that they are similar, but every champ has a unique way of playing the game. All I did was give you some examples.

MankeyMadnessDec 30, 20182 votes

Varus is picked for the AoE root and %max health damage. Grievous what?

HeimerLmaoDec 30, 20184 votes

{quoted}

That doesn't really matter honnestly, having interactions with items and runes doesn't create an imbalanced champion

However, having a champion only designed to deal damage does create an imbalanced champion

Honestly, that's what they've been doing with pretty much everyone. A champ has problems? Slap another 20% ap ratio and call it a day. Especially when it's about adcs popping like balloons. Instead of nerfing damage, they buff adcs' damage to the point where they still get oneshot by assasins, mages and bruisers, but the moment they get ahead they oneshot you instead, with unavoidable point and click ranged burst.

SpecterVonBarenDec 31, 20181 votes

And replace it with what?

Daddy AntsDec 30, 201815 votes

Passive is the issue imo.

Gives him too many broken synergies with items and runes that are not out of line for other users.

Press the Attack Black Cleaver Blade of the Ruined King Kleptomancy

Sewer SideDec 30, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Passive is the issue imo.

Gives him too many broken synergies with items and runes that are not out of line for other users.

Press the Attack Black Cleaver Blade of the Ruined King Kleptomancy

I mean, this addresses why he is strong currently, but not address the other half of the complaint - when he is hot garbage, not even his passive is saving him from dumpster tier.

His passive acting as a psuedo-crit after an ability is actually quite healthy to ensure his caster/dps playstyle.

It’s the fact his cancer dash and burst combo that makes him a pain to deal with

Tomoe GozenDec 31, 20181 votes

It’s the fact his cancer dash and burst combo that makes him a pain to deal with

What's exactly burst in Lucian's kit? It's all sustained DPS if you know how to utilize his passive to the fullest. Now, the speed of his combo does matter because if it goes super fast, it appears as if he "bursts" you in that short time window.

Any combo with damaging spells in any champion's kit can be classified as a "burst" combo so by that logic, are champions not allowed to have combos? Or should a damage on combos be put into tiers so that it's more clear on after what point does a combo becomes "burst"?

He doesn't have CC so it's not like if he decides to engage on you, you're unable to act before he gets to thoroughly sodomize you, like any mid lane mage from 100-0.

Sire HippingtonDec 31, 20181 votes

it appears as if he "bursts" you in that short time window.

If he kills you in a very short time window, it is burst, doesn't matter if he used 3 skills and 3 passive empowered AAs or not, burst reffers to alot damage beeing done in a short timeframe, usually in a way that leaves little room to react. Hec, evem Dots can be burst if you have no way to get rid of them and will die. Brand for example does alot of his damage with the dot and the delayed explotion, yet people will rightfully reffer to his combo as burst.

Tomoe GozenJan 1, 20191 votes

Brand's combos do actual damage first before his passive stacks up and detonates. Mages usually are burst champions given they are designed around comboing their skills in order to be effective in battle. Spellcasters are usually not encouraged to AA and keep their safe distance.

Teemo's Shrooms aren't burst damage, even with a Liandry's + Rylai's effects. It sure does deal a considerable amount of damage but with a shield or a heal, it can be prevented or mitigated in any given moment, provided you have the necessary means of slowing down the ticking damage.

If you want your argument of burst to hold true, then any champion that does damage with their skills that's not a DoT is considered a burst champion. And it's all a matter of degrees at that point - who deals the biggest burst damage/who has the most damaging spell combo available.

Any AA that's instantly dealing you damage (not DoT) is also considered a burst attack and it's a matter of how much you get hit for and how frequently.

saltranDec 30, 20183 votes

Oh imagine if Lucian had to abuse aswell Fervor of Battle now, man that would be so scary.

Exin0Dec 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Passive is the issue imo.

Gives him too many broken synergies with items and runes that are not out of line for other users.

Press the Attack Black Cleaver Blade of the Ruined King Kleptomancy

for items i just say personal opinion.i think we need tradeoffs in itemisation, why they never make itemisation like "you want hit fast or hard? choose one" or "have burst or shred defense", etc. if some champ can get everything at once you cant balance him.

Z3SleeperDec 31, 20181 votes

I think the synergies are fine, he should just be taking a hit to his in-kit damage to compensate for it.

Lightslinger damage and/or base AS are pretty good places to look for nerfs.

And with that changing W to something better would be feasible. I personally like his W though. The MS absolutely helps when kiting since he’s not a dash happy champ like he was seasons ago.

koshkyraJan 1, 20191 votes

And braum passive.

LordGeovanniJan 1, 20191 votes

His passive is a non issue if he didnt have a dash to dodge spells and then kite not 2 seconds later when he is engaged on

ankoanko19Dec 30, 20184 votes

They need to buff Ap lucian.

saltranDec 30, 20182 votes

TotalJerkDec 31, 20181 votes

Yes

Critmaster GarenDec 30, 20183 votes

{quoted}

he became the most feast or famin champion in this ridiculous game

Draven

yes, i recently named draven as probably the best marksmen design in the game. but that was regarding to his axe catch mechanic.

the design of his passive is hot garbage.

Hayaishi2Dec 30, 20183 votes

He needs his early game nerfed and get buffs for his late game. The "lane bully" identity doesn't work if marksmen are meant to have 0 agency in lane.

Lucian is pretty much a ranged bruiser atm, 100-0s you in lane with just a cutlass pretty much as fast as most assassins.

I enjoy playing Lucian but it sucks that you can barely play him because he's pick/ban right now.

Lucian's patch history is a mess too. It always goes with Riot nerfing his Q and passive, then a couple of months later they readjust his passive and buff his Q, then they nerf them again. Then they gut his ultimate's waveclear to give it more counterplay . This champion is the perfect example of why the balance team has no idea what to do with this game, they don't want long term balance, they just want to keep rotating their disgusting metas but turns out that after 9 seasons we are all tired of it.

D357R0Y3RDec 30, 20182 votes

{quoted}

He needs his early game nerfed and get buffs for his late game.

this is not going to change anything except that he is now a late game champion instead of early game

this is not going to make him more useful for his team when behind, and not depending on the meta to have high range adcs viable

Hayaishi2Dec 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

this is not going to change anything except that he is now a late game champion instead of early game

this is not going to make him more useful for his team when behind, and not depending on the meta to have high range adcs viable

Better a late game game champion than the leblanc of adcs.

Daddy AntsJan 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

He needs his early game nerfed and get buffs for his late game. The "lane bully" identity doesn't work if marksmen are meant to have 0 agency in lane.

Lucian is pretty much a ranged bruiser atm, 100-0s you in lane with just a cutlass pretty much as fast as most assassins.

I enjoy playing Lucian but it sucks that you can barely play him because he's pick/ban right now.

Lucian's patch history is a mess too. It always goes with Riot nerfing his Q and passive, then a couple of months later they readjust his passive and buff his Q, then they nerf them again. Then they gut his ultimate's waveclear to give it more counterplay . This champion is the perfect example of why the balance team has no idea what to do with this game, they don't want long term balance, they just want to keep rotating their disgusting metas but turns out that after 9 seasons we are all tired of it.

Then Jhin MissFortune Draven Xayah Varus Ashe Caitlyn should also have their early games murdered in exchange for some late game power.

Hayaishi2Jan 1, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Then should also have their early games murdered in exchange for some late game power.

Why should they? They are not feast/famine pick or ban champions like Lucian is, they can actually be viable champions without having to reach that state.

EldeazarDec 30, 20183 votes

Oh it's OP? They will probably put -5 movement speed on that and it will be just fine, maybe -0.5 AD bcs he is too strong.

LiL Bunnie FuFuuDec 31, 20182 votes

can I get a LUL in the chat for the Riot Games Balance Team?

thanks

MankeyMadnessDec 30, 20182 votes

Give him Ezreals old W and revert his R to scale on Attack speed. Longer delay on the shots between autos that also scales with atk Speed. Change ult to Magic damage

Most of these are nerf-esque but if his W wasn't useless you have to reduce his kit in a lot of ways to keep it healthier but power neutral . Of course not everything would go through either but, I'd have the balance team/lucian mains at least explore these options a little and see what works/doesn't

I Spread CancerDec 30, 20181 votes

Not many adc are strong early game, so it goes with what favor the meta. It's almost him vs rest of adc.

SpecterVonBarenDec 31, 20181 votes

Oh fuck off! Lucian got two YEARS of babying before he got changes that actually knocked him out of being a pocket safe pick for every ADC main in the LCS.

I'm fine with people asking for Riot to make new changes for him but don't turn this into some kind of "OH poor widdle Lucian! Treated so badly since forever!" sob story when he's a poster child for wrist slaps.

D357R0Y3RDec 31, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Lucian got two YEARS of babying before he got changes

No just no

he's a poster child for wrist slaps.

yea, just like when he suddenly had 42% win rate after they nerfed his ult+w+q range

or when they nerfed his E cd to 22 sec

WRIST SLAPS LMFAO

i'm asking for lucian to not be feast or famin anymore do you %%%%ing understand?

good

SpecterVonBarenDec 31, 20181 votes

Yes, just YES, I said he got 2 years of wrist slaps, THEN he got nerfed hard. He had a loooong time with Riot trying to just tweak and modify his kit in small ways to try and get him balanced out and ultimately they couldn't do it and now he's in the same position most of the roster goes through.

Again, it's perfectly fine to ask for him to get changes to make him not be in the state he currently is in but Riot was FAR from being unfair with him and his players when so much time was given to trying to handle him with soft hands.