Some small but Impactful ADCS nerf on pbe

Ahristocats·Mar 8, 2018·30 votes·1,804 views

Stattik's shiv: No longer deals bonus damage on minions

Heal: cooldown increased from 240 to 270 seconds

i will take that, some bandaids until the massive marksmen/bot lane work arrives

34 Comments

xJLx MCHammerMar 8, 20187 votes

I like the need to the Statik shiv

It made ADCs gods at wave clearing. Rushing the item just gave too much push and free wave clear for no reason. It needs further nerfs but this is a start

DeusVultMar 9, 20181 votes

Does the damage from Statikk and RFC stack?? The passives are unique but have different names

masterdomloMar 9, 20181 votes

no, the effects do but not the damage as far as i know

Lil Homie bustaMar 9, 20183 votes

Crit shiv proc shouldn't have 100% damage. That would be another good nerf:

"This effect (shiv damage) can critically strike, but it's critical damage deals 20% less damage"

So, with item 3031 , instead of [(60 - 140) * 2.5] = 150 - 350 , it would be [(60 - 140) * 2.5 * 0.8] = 120 - 280 ; (deals 50% more damage to minions) as compensation for the nerf, which still would be a overall nerf.

MizayaMar 8, 20185 votes

Good, never liked heal in botlane

PokladnicaZlaMar 8, 20183 votes

Won't the Heal change just mean that ADCs will take Barrier instead?

AhristocatsMar 8, 201817 votes

barrier is less powerful than heal

it doesn't give movement speed, and doesn't heal the support

PokladnicaZlaMar 9, 20183 votes

I agree,but burst damage has gotten stronger and stronger. LB and Rengo are getting reverted seems like ADCs would favor and supports summoner 7 ( + Revitalize, H&S Power ) as an alternative to Exhaust. Some champions have such high and fast burst that sometimes as a support you won't even be able to Exhuast the enemy before they delete your carry.

AhristocatsMar 9, 20182 votes

i would love to play against a support that has heal instead of exhaust as a mordekaiser adc main

that way dude has only heal to save himself, while before he had heal+exhaust and was harder to kill him in one rotation and snowball

Zero Skill TankMar 9, 20183 votes

i would love to play against a support that has heal instead of exhaust as a mordekaiser adc main

Respectfully, the state of Morde ADC isn't something that affects majority of playerbase, and likely never will.

And with more ordinary teamcomp, IMO, barrier+heal botlanes were much more annoying than exhaust+heal. Most champs don't get as fucked by a strong slow as Morde, who has no mobility or CC on his own.

AhristocatsMar 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Respectfully, the state of Morde ADC isn't something that affects majority of playerbase, and likely never will.

i never said it will, this boards is made to talk about opinions, this is my opinion and i love it because of what i described

And with more ordinary teamcomp, IMO, barrier+heal botlanes were much more annoying than exhaust+heal. Most champs don't get as fucked by a strong slow as Morde, who has no mobility or CC on his own.

fair, but my point still stands that barrier+heal is worse in lane if the support gets focused because he will get killed easily and then the lane snowballs

also there is no way that heal on support with 270 cd is stronger than exhaust with 210 cd

ProfDrDeathMar 9, 20183 votes

Even more on 3/8 PBE:

Shiv does 60-140 damage, down from 60-160.
Firecannon a bit buffed, deals 60-140 up from 50-120.

Critmaster GarenMar 9, 20183 votes

while any nerf to shiv is appreciated, isnt adding some extra waveclear the whole point of the item?

i think the more problematic aspect of the passive is that the lightning can crit and create a dumb amount of magic burst against champions. also that shiv can stack with rapid fire to charge faster.

id rather they removed its ability to crit and stack with rapid fire first. that would actually be helpful.

JackMcSnipeyzMar 9, 20182 votes

Yea i agree. The original idea was to create 3 niche zeal items Poke - RFC Wave clear - Shiv Dueling - PD And hurricane for Team fighting.

Shiv should have it's damage to champions hit, it's not a burst item, not primarily, it's what pushes IE+SS over the edge.

YumaS2AstralMar 9, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Yea i agree. The original idea was to create 3 niche zeal items Poke - RFC Wave clear - Shiv Dueling - PD And hurricane for Team fighting.

Shiv should have it's damage to champions hit, it's not a burst item, not primarily, it's what pushes IE+SS over the edge.

but then doesn't Shiv overlap a bit with Hurricane? I mean, you can also waveclear well with Hurricane

At this point the only difference between the two is that Shiv does burst AoE damage that also works on single targets, while Hurricane does AoE sustained damage. Which means Hurricane is better for extended teamfights and for on-hit champions, otherwise Shiv is the better choice

JackMcSnipeyzMar 9, 20182 votes

You're right my bad. Hurricane is generally for on hit carries, it can still work well if you need thay extra hit potential in teamfights, but it's mainly for the on hit effect.

YumaS2AstralMar 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You're right my bad. Hurricane is generally for on hit carries, it can still work well if you need thay extra hit potential in teamfights, but it's mainly for the on hit effect.

But then at this point they might as well remove the crit chance and give this item its 70% attack speed back, either that or its on-hit physical damage back.

Zero Skill TankMar 9, 20181 votes

Amount of 'magic damage burst' that Shiv gives is GREATLY exaggerated here on boards. It's 240 at worst (pre-mittigation). By the time it gets to that, a champion with any MR item won't even feel that.

The fact that ADC can clear a wave before a mage can cast a single spell gives them much more power.

Critmaster GarenMar 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Amount of 'magic damage burst' that Shiv gives is GREATLY exaggerated here on boards. It's 240 at worst (pre-mittigation). By the time it gets to that, a champion with any MR item won't even feel that.

The fact that ADC can clear a wave before a mage can cast a single spell gives them much more power.

it can crit for 320 damage. does infinity edge affect that? because then its 400 damage.

pre mitigation or not. added onto a regular marksman crit, its really a fuckton of burst damage. id even go as far and say against a squishy who doesnt build mr, a shiv passive crit post mitigation hits like duskblades passive.

there is really no excuse for marksmen to get this much burst damage.

shiv was intended as a waveclear tool. the fact that it adds this much champion damage, and that its first and foremost bought for its burst potential against champions, doesnt even make sense. id say make it not be able to crit champions at all.

Risk of FateMar 8, 20182 votes

[deleted]

AhristocatsMar 8, 20188 votes

small because it's one change

impactful cuz it lowers the power of marksmen by a lot

RocketRelmMar 9, 20184 votes

I think the particular pain point they're addressing is "RFC+Shiv=Literal 1 auto clear the wave" because come on why is that a thing.

AirKingNeoMar 9, 20183 votes

Isn't the impact doubled on them since they're also changing minions?

Besides being experimental, everyone faces that change. Therefore, by technicality, no one faces that change.

FCJAAAAGOOOOMar 9, 20182 votes

Both appreciated but that better not be all there is.

More specifically...none of them should be able to help kill bot tower and then dragon pre-7 mins. And then the next bot tower three minutes later.

Cairo KingMar 9, 20182 votes

ADC's don't need nerfs... nerf supports

vgamedudeMar 9, 20184 votes

This is the worst meme I've ever seen.

Cairo KingMar 9, 20182 votes

{quoted}

This is the worst meme I've ever seen.

Adcs only do well if the supports decent like https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champions/ the highest adc win rate is 51.6... lowest is 44 huge margin there buddy. A 2v2 bot lane fight depends on the better support, better timed exhaust, better shield, whatever support focuses the adc wins the fight really.

vgamedudeMar 9, 20181 votes

ADC winrate is only relevant in so far as a comparison to other ADCs since you have them in every single game. Support does have a role in lane without a doubt but it does nothing any good to perpetuate this lie that ADCs are somehow a weak role without support. That's a flat out lie.

nelogisMar 9, 20182 votes

I would have liked if they just removed the movementspeed buff from heal

Heal has the potential to heal more people Barries has the potential to block more damage off than heal and isn't affected by GW

I don't know why heal needs a movementspeed buff, it already has a clear strength and weakness. I mean Barrier doesn't have a movementspeed buff out of nowhere either

Modl Ryden lMar 9, 20181 votes

Woohoo barrier meta!

hhaavviikkMar 9, 20181 votes

wait so now what's the point of statik shiv then? if it isn't meant for waveclear since they nerfed it for that purpose then why are we giving ADC's burst damage items? this makes no sense just make it deal like 80 magic damage which deals 4x more damage vs minions and make it impossible to crit, something of that nature, low damage vs champions high damage vs minions

KrytoricMar 9, 20181 votes

lul waiting for the marksmen / bot lane reworks to arrive and everyone will still bitch about something

Fear the KaynMar 9, 20181 votes

EVERY ADC should have a ammo system, crits should deal less damage for ranged champs. and their projectiles shouldn't pass through minions. I feel like that would make ADCs actually take skill to play and have a dedicated time (reloading) when you can all-in them and all they can do is sperg out and die.

ThefrostyvikingMar 9, 20183 votes

There are so many issue´s with this.

Marksmen would be unable to do shit about mages in lane.
Would also be unable to do anything if the target that they need to kill hides behind another, which in turn makes them highly useless with a tank diving on them with followup or when fighting a enemy botlane for instance.
It forces a game of making the marksman hide behind the support at all times, which in turn empowers mages and other AOE champs insanely hard, it also makes blitz and thresh extremely strong.
It kills of all interaction in the botlane, permanently since neither marksman can actually do anything with minions around and range&waveclear&abilties that pass minions become the most powerful, more auto attack reliant champs will in turn become useless.

This suggestion of yours would basically force a massive revamp of the entire role, and massive compensation buffs ontop, every marksmen would basically become a pre nerf reworked graves when they have ammo and you step up in sight.

They would also in some cases have as much as 3-4 times as much range as Graves.

You basically see that they are there, then 2 shots later you are dead with almost no counterplay, as issued to "compensate" for his inability to shoot past his first target.

Pay attention to it being 2 shots rather than 2 seconds.