Aurelion Sol's Huge Weakness

The Ecdysiast··3 votes·4,603 views

#The problem As we all know, and as Riot pointed out on his release, his biggest intended weakness is that he has very little damage when someone is within melee range.

My question is: Why did they intend a champion to be weak specifically against everyone melee, and even more specifically against the already-strongest type of champs-- those who can close the gap far too easily for counterplay?

That makes him weak to a large majority of the viable champions, even if we exclude his weakness to anyone who has more range than him. (And we won't even talk about how easy he is to beat with Zed-- you know, everyone's favorite, balanced champion with just as many weaknesses as Sol)

#One possible solution: Edited 3 stars. Varying orbits. W increases damage and speed, but the stars are far enough apart that someone standing between them won't be hit unless it's Cho'gath with 6 Feast stacks.

A lot of you seem to be under the impression that it's healthy his "range" be at a fixed position, unlike every other champion in the entire game. He has none of the strengths of a ranged caster, and cannot be picked to fill that space. He's closer in design and play stile to Swain or Vladimir, minus the sustain and ability to cast skills up close.

EDIT (VERY IMPORTANT): It seems that some of you have confused "melee" with "AD". Diana Akali Katarina Fizz Ekko all being prime examples of champions he would be fighting in mid lane.

I'm not saying that his DEFENSE is the problem, but that he has almost zero OFFENSE at that range. It's also incredibly easy to avoid the stars unless you're the kind of genius who chases Singed.

Tl;DR Aurelion Sol's design was bad. He's a bad pick against top tier champs, not a clear counter for any, and only does exceedingly well against champs with low pick rates. You want to play him, go right ahead. He's incredibly easy to counterpick and play against.

33 Comments

Demon King Maou4 votes

Aurelion is annoying enough as is don't need more dmg or speed

Kallian2 votes

thats actually genius bc fun fact: the closer a satellite is to the pull, the faster it rotates

67chrome2 votes

That way he can instead punish the champions that try to get in close, rather than have to use his ult just to avoid dying and maybe hit them with one star.

item 3068 item 3025+ AurelionSol?


As obnoxious as having weaknesses and getting those exploited is, it's worth noting you can purchase any item on any champion and run them in any lane with any mastery settup and any rune settup.

A melee fighter that sits on opponents isn't a melee fighter that sits on opponents unless they have a kit that's really condusive to sitting on opponents, just as a mid-range mage isn't going to be a mid-range mage unless they're at their strongest by being medium range from opponents.

Aurelion Sol is not supposed to be a melee champion like Garen. Aurelion Sol is supposed to be a mage that comes with the high skillcap mystic the term "mage" generally promises, as well as a champion that's ideally suited to kill opponents at range while playing around with a lot of special effects and coming in from strategic angles.


You're proposed change of "I win vs. melee when they get within melee range" is an awkward place to take a mage by reducing their skillcap and capacity to display skilled play, as well as removing meaningful weaknesses from Aurelion Sol's kit. With a ton of low-range damage, you'd also be looking at another AP becoming a tanky DPS fighter.

The Ecdysiast2 votes

I edited the post to accommodate your confusion between melee and Attack Damage. Sorry I wasn't clear.

If it isn't clear to you: Reversing the direction of the stars' pull would give him the opposite weakness that he currently has. He'd be weak to range and strong against people who get in close. At least at a range, there're ways to dodge abilities reliably and he has options to get in closer. Making his damage stay at a fixed distance only serves to give him weaknesses that no other champions have. The closest comparison is Veigar's E, which can still serve the purpose of forcing a flash or zoning the enemy. But if you're in Sol's orbit your only worries are his ultimate and Q. One requires he move a fixed distance to hit you with his real damage, and the other pushes you away long enough for a single start to hit you before you either come back in or just leave.

High skillcap is not supposed to hinder a champion at all levels of play. Regardless of skill, it's still far too easy for any enemy with at least one movement ability to dodge his main form of damage reliably.

I understand that you think he should be incredibly easy to counterpick and hard to play even against immobile champs (who generally have more range to make up for the mobility that his sustained-type damage requires they lack), but that doesn't sound like a healthy champion for a solo lane.

Hitting enemies with the stars when the ability that interacts with them pushes them further, making them even easier to predict requires the kind of enemy player who'd chase a Singed or an large amount of CC from allies.

Quepha2 votes

{quoted}

Regardless of skill, it's still far too easy for any enemy with at least one movement ability to dodge his main form of damage reliably.

It definitely is not, he is performing fine at pretty much every elo.

The Ecdysiast2 votes

Against which champions?

And so is Yorick. Win rate is based off of how much a champion drags down or increases chances of a team winning. It's got as much to do with the ease of countering a champion as it does the ease of playing one.

Yi has a around the same winrate, but because his extreme ease is balanced by what the allies can't do for him. Aurelion's is balanced by what the allies can do to prevent him from losing (and the CC they use for him.)

Quepha2 votes

{quoted}

Against which champions?

And so is Yorick. Win rate is based off of how much a champion drags down or increases chances of a team winning. It's got as much to do with the ease of countering a champion as it does the ease of playing one.

Yi has a around the same winrate, but because his extreme ease is balanced by what the allies can't do for him. Aurelion's is balanced by what the allies can do to prevent him from losing (and the CC they use for him.)

43% winrate against Zed is pretty bad (although Zed has better matchups) 48% winrate against Kassadin, a champion that he should have a hard time against after 6. 54% against Karma who has a speed boost that should help her against him, 54% against Lissandra who has a blink that should help her, 57% against Orianna who has a speedboost that should help her. He actually has an astoundingly bad winrate against Morgana who has zero dashes, blinks, or speedboosts, I'm almost tempted to think that's just a string of bad luck creating a statistical anomaly.

Even in his worst matchups he has decent odds and can make up for his weaknesses, and he has a lot of good matchups. Having weaknesses is good for the game.

The Ecdysiast2 votes

The 43% winrate against Zed is the important note here. Karma is hardly ever played in solo lane, Kassadin is a very sildom played niche pick, and the only strength Orianna has against him is that her ranged attacks can be cast closer. Otherwise, she has less damage and is more for setting up ally kills.

And another thing I'd like to add: Previously, someone mentioned that doing this to his stars would force him into an "incorrect tank style" yet everyone's argument for beating melee champions is "buy tank items." Along with already buying the 3 HP AP items as his core, this wouldn't change his build at all, since his heavy reliance on a set distance forces him to build against the fact he's supposedly ranged.

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

The 43% winrate against Zed is the important note here.

Winning 43% of the time against a counterpick is pretty solid.

yet everyone's argument for beating melee champions is "buy tank items."

No, it's "kite them" and if they get on top of you "press your R button"

The Ecdysiast2 votes

No, kiting is for completely immobile bruisers. His play style is to kite, but unlike every other ranged character in the game, he can't attack if they're already close. In a fight, he only has 3 abilities, and having to use his ultimate early is a huge problem, especially any champion can reach him without blowing a movement ability beforehand, and still have it for after he uses his ultimate.

And a 43% winrate is not solid against a counterpick. A counterpick should sway winrate no more than 5% in either direction. 7% is a huge gap away from having an even shot.

Quepha2 votes

{quoted}

No, kiting is for completely immobile bruisers. His play style is to kite, but unlike every other ranged character in the game, he can't attack if they're already close. In a fight, he only has 3 abilities, and having to use his ultimate early is a huge problem, especially any champion can reach him without blowing a movement ability beforehand, and still have it for after he uses his ultimate.

And a 43% winrate is not solid against a counterpick. A counterpick should sway winrate no more than 5% in either direction. 7% is a huge gap away from having an even shot.

Aurelion Sol is doing quite fine overall and having bad matchups at the cost of also having good matchups is A-OK in a strategy game.

The Ecdysiast2 votes

Bad matchups at the cost of good matchups is fine only if the "bad" matchups are only equally as bad as the good ones are good. 7% difference between Zed and Orianna shows that,

but

Beating Orianna in lane does a lot less for a game than losing to Zed does. An Orianna who's lost lane is simply lowered to being a support in team fights. A Zed who's won lane deletes two of your allies or splitpushes.

Quepha2 votes

{quoted}

Bad matchups at the cost of good matchups is fine only if the "bad" matchups are only equally as bad as the good ones are good. 7% difference between Zed and Orianna shows that,

but

Beating Orianna in lane does a lot less for a game than losing to Zed does. An Orianna who's lost lane is simply lowered to being a support in team fights. A Zed who's won lane deletes two of your allies or splitpushes.

That's completely debatable. Zed has enough raw power in his kit to still take out targets and splitpush effectively when he loses lane. You know what's really terrifying? A fed Corki who will just constantly poke your team down for days, and Sol also has an incredibly good winrate against Corki, as good a winrate as Zed has against Sol.

The Ecdysiast2 votes

Exactly. So even when you DO beat Zed, he can still do more for the team, like Orianna.

And we aren't talking about players who continue to feed when behind. That's a different board entirely.

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

Exactly. So even when you DO beat Zed, he can still do more for the team, like Orianna.

And we aren't talking about players who continue to feed when behind. That's a different board entirely.

If you just want to cry about how you think Zed is OP, you should probably make it more clear in the OP what your actual intentions are.

The Ecdysiast2 votes

If you're just going to ignore the real issue, make your own thread. It's not about win rates. Win rates show absolutely nothing about a champion's weaknesses alone.

Quepha1 votes

{quoted}

If you're just going to ignore the real issue, make your own thread. It's not about win rates. Win rates show absolutely nothing about a champion's weaknesses alone.

There is no issue. Champions having weaknesses is not an issue because the only way for champions to not have weaknesses is for them to all be exactly the same. THAT would be an issue.

67chrome2 votes

He'd be weak to range and strong against people who get in close.

Yeah, I got that.

The vast majority of melee champions with a gap-closer only have 1 gap-closer to use, which generally makes them heavily commit and gets them stuck next to whatever they jump on.

Aurelion Sol having a mega-Sunfire cape when that happens would make him extremely difficult to deal with as a melee champion. It's one thing to have ways to deal with situations like knocking enemies back with his ult, stunning them, comboing Rylie's with his orbs to kite enemy melee's with great ease.

It's another to make Aurelion Sol just flat out win all melee engagements.


A general design pattern that's pretty prevalent in LoL is that a champion tends to win a fight if they maintain their maximum range from a target, where they'll loose to a champion with shorter range maintaining their max range in a straight up face-tank fight. Caitlyn < Tristana < Draven < Vayne < Riven < Tryndamere However: if you outrange someone and don't let them smack you, they do 0 damage to you and you can kill them without taking damage. If this dynamic didn't exist: more range would always be better than less range no matter what.

What I'm trying to say is this: For Aurelion Sol to beat a melee champion, he doesn't need tools to win in a melee vs. melee fight. He just needs to maintain some distance from his opponent.

Making his damage stay at a fixed distance only serves to give him weaknesses that no other champions have.

Given how many long-ranged champions get destroyed in melee range by melee champions, that's an extremely common weakness.

High skillcap is not supposed to hinder a champion at all levels of play. Regardless of skill, it's still far too easy for any enemy with at least one movement ability to dodge his main form of damage reliably.

The unfortunate reality is that pro-play is worlds apart from casual play, and differences in play skill change which champions are worth playing and which ones aren't. It's in Riot's best interest to balance champions around the level where there full potential is realized rather than balancing for a lack of skill. With 120+ champions: a lot of players also have very different tastes in the difficulty of a champion's kit. Many players would like an Envoker champion to show off with, and mages like Aurelion Sol generally appeal to that demographic. If you want to play a champion that allows for a good display of skill and makes you look smart when you play them well, they're balanced around having a dedicated fanbase that plays them well. With only 4 skills and 1 innate on most champions in LoL, it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to really get the hang of such kits.

I understand that you think he should be incredibly easy to counterpick and hard to play even against immobile champs (who generally have more range to make up for the mobility that his sustained-type damage requires they lack), but that doesn't sound like a healthy champion for a solo lane.

I don't think any champion should be easy to counterpick. LoL lasts ~33 minutes, things that should be decided on a coin flip should usually last in the 1 minute range like a hand of Poker or a slot-machine pull. Every champion should have oppertunities to succeed even against their counterpicks, and Aurelion Sol strikes me as a champion that has a lot of oppertunities to do so. His ult knocks enemies backwards into his orbit, and if a melee tries chasing him and is slightly to far away to land their melee skills they'll get pelted with orbs. Sol also has pretty solid manaless wave-clear with his passive, which is useful for dealing with melee champions like Zed and Yasou, and Sol's roaming potential with his flight rivals that of Quinn and Twisted Fate if Sol just wants to ignore his lane opponent and force 1-man advantages across the map.

My issue with Sol pulling his orbs in is that it really removes an interesting counterplay dynamic against Sol, and makes Sol more of a hard-counter to a lot of melee champions with no real tradeoff in Sol's kit.

5050BS2 votes

ASol needs his Stars Damage increased. His weakness is he has a damage zone (thats fine) but the problem is it is too easy to get out of that zone and on to him and stick on him till he is dead (because ANYONE can out auto attack him)

His Zone should be way more dangerous then it is.

46104328_DEL1 votes

Feels good to be right. And I do agree with you, 100%, but I'm just to distracted reveling in how much I called it, and called the boards following my example.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Eh, it's just me. Other people seem to like having a champion designed to be weak against Zed.

falloffreljord1 votes

good points but it would be complete **** for him to face long range mages not just hard it would be pure torture

Quepha1 votes

Aurelion Sol is strong enough to compensate for his weaknesses even if he still has those weaknesses, statistics are showing he has a pretty strong performance overall and isn't completely helpless against champions that should counter him.

Sniper 01 votes

MELEE, MY ONLY WEAKNESS!!! AurelionSol

The Ecdysiast3 votes

"You're going to Punch a Star Dragon?"

Vi is on a rampage.

"Yes. You made it easy."

Sniper 02 votes

{quoted}

"You're going to Punch a Star Dragon?"

Vi is on a rampage.

"Yes. You made it easy."

Fist of the North Star has got this shit mang!

Jalkan1 votes

This is stupid. Aurelion Sol needs those long ranged stars. If you don't want people to get into melee range of you, then don't let them.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Well, if you ever "let" someone beat you in the game, that's called "intentionally feeding" and is against the Sumoner's code.

There is nothing in his kit to consistently keep enemies away. The ultimate works once.

Rabid Husky1 votes

man all these people just don't want to start losing to him cuz they know he's a easy lane, only time I've seen sol do anything is when he is never in lane and mid didn't ping mia

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Man, exactly.

I didn't save up IP to get him or spend RP 'cause I could tell right away what his giant glaring flaw was. And I was right.

He's not hard to fight or beat. In a teamfight he has to "kite" at a specified distance and has zero damage if you're closer or further than that. I don't want him stronger for my sake. I want him stronger for the sake of anyone who was hyped about Ao Shin and got this PoS instead.

Çhåryzård1 votes

All you have to do to beat him is get in his face

He cant Q immediately after using it, it has to go some distance, so if you're right on top of him he cant do anything.

If his team is protecting him, he is very useful. He's one of those champs that really relies on his team during teamfights to keep the enemy away from him. He can't do anything with enemies on top of him.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Well, yeah. That's why he has any wins at all. 'cause this is a team game.

But even an ADC has some window of opportunity if a fighter jumps on them. He just has an extra weakness that most ranged mages don't and shouldn't.

Çhåryzård1 votes

{quoted}

Well, yeah. That's why he has any wins at all. 'cause this is a team game.

But even an ADC has some window of opportunity if a fighter jumps on them. He just has an extra weakness that most ranged mages don't and shouldn't.

Yea, true...plus they just nerfed some of his utility. I feel like if they lowered the range of when he could q again it'd help. It's kinda easy to bully him.

However if he's played right I feel like he can be really good, just that with his weaknesses and the fact that he is new people are still learning to play well

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