How is this OK for hypermobile champions to also have top-tier base MS?

Zero Skill Tank·Aug 27, 2016·94 votes·4,042 views

This is not a "nerf Lee Sin" thread, but I really don't understand that design decision.

Take Yasuo as example. Not only he is able to dash around like no other, almost no champion can keep up with him on foot without some serious steroid - only 14 champions in the game have higher base MS, and he has absurd synergy with MS items like zeal.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if my enemy has metric crapton of dashes, and I manage to outplay them all (i.e. I'm chasing Yas and no minions are around, I chase Lee sin and he has both dashes on CD), I kind of deserve to be able to easily chase them? You might say "slow them" or so, but those champions do possess CC of their own, so most of the time it equlizes each other.

Now this is OK for champions like Jax or Panth to have high MS, as those guys only get to jump once.

130 Comments

JbelsAug 27, 201639 votes

You know, mobility would be a pretty balanced thing if all hyper mobile champions had subpar movement speed as compensation

Zero Skill TankAug 28, 201628 votes

It doesn't need to be subpar, but they really shouldn't be noticeably faster than most of the rooster even without their dashes. At least I think it would make for better gameplay.

JbelsAug 28, 201624 votes

{quoted}

It doesn't need to be subpar, but they really shouldn't be noticeably faster than most of the rooster even without their dashes. At least I think it would make for better gameplay.

Those damn roosters

Zero Skill TankAug 28, 201615 votes

You got me.

MordepoolAug 28, 201636 votes

Hypermobile champions pay for it by doing Comparable damage and have. Comparable utility. And also scale better late game than immobile champs

NilokAug 28, 201613 votes

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/65976232.jpg

MordepoolAug 28, 20165 votes

I exagarate only slightly. Thats the sad part

Edit: slightly (to account for differing champion abilities etc..)

TheorcheroAug 31, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Hypermobile champions pay for it by doing Comparable damage and have. Comparable utility. And also scale better late game than immobile champs

AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAA

Fizz Ekko Yasuo

MordepoolSep 1, 20161 votes

Well you seem to be having a great day. Carry on

agbudarAug 28, 201610 votes

Mordekaiser desperately needs a base movement speed of 350

BrascusAug 28, 201614 votes

Is literally a suit of armor but has shit base armor stats

MatezoideAug 28, 20165 votes

God i remember when Mord had base 340 movement speed and i would build Echo + Lich Bane + Alac boots and just run at people.

I miss old Mordekaiser.

TFBaamAug 28, 20169 votes

ikr how is it fair poppy gets 345 ms with a dash and a speed up while morde who has 325 ms and no form of cc not even slows if im right you cant say hes a juggernaut because jugg garen has 345 and jugg darius has 340 and jugg mundo has 340

MavenSongAug 28, 20163 votes

One of Morde's core item is rylai's. His slow ms is compensation for that. That and his ms buff he gets from moving to the partnered w target.

(Edit: never said it was fair)

TesliumAug 28, 20162 votes

I wouldn't call it "Core". Mordekaiser has other items to prioratize.

MavenSongAug 28, 20164 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/Mordekaiser

Its an item he builds early according to both his most frequently built AND highest win percent.

So yes, atm it pretty much is. :p

statelesskillerAug 28, 20168 votes

this is a great point. i never realized yasuo had such high move speed. RITO EXPLANATION PLZ

SanKakUAug 28, 20166 votes

I'm confused about this as well. It seems like the only counterplay is to simply tank their BS kit or snipe them from afar.

To me, it would make a lot of sense in a realistic as well as in a fair way if some of these champions are slowed after dashing many times. Blitzcrank is a robot and he gets slowed down after the burst of movement and attack speed...what about Yasuo or Ahri and their weird dashing? They could have a delay of X seconds and when they delay is over, they get self-slowed because of using too many dashes and I think that would be fair. I shouldn't have to feel like IBG is the strongest item in the game. I'd probably buy it even if the damage went down to 75 percent of base AD. It's not because the item is too good, it's because these mobile champs with lots of AD are too good. Why does Blitzcrank get to be the only sacrifice for our enjoyment of playing against burst-damage close-ranged champs?

I'm not trying to single out any champions in particular, there are a lot more that should be looked at, I just think that putting the idea out there is the important thing. Self-slowing could be what we need. And it could be different ways that it happens to fit with the flavor of the champ so they don't feel too weak. Like if you don't get a kill, then the slow sets in, but if you get it, then you could cancel the delayed slow with that kill. This would mean someone can outplay them and then they get punished for missing their skill shots or dashes or whatever.

BloodyTomponAug 28, 20165 votes

A few things come into consideration. Are they melee? Is their mobility constrained? Do they have enough counterplay? Are there other things that could be buffed if MS was nerfed? Do they have easy access to CC? Are they tanky?

Those are the considerations that I can think of from the top of my head.

Voluug13Aug 28, 201626 votes

I could normally agree, but Zed and Fizz also enjoy of higher than average MS.

Its the ''To do their job better'' thing Riot says... while nerfing Sion's base HP into the ground because he has a (mediocre) stacking hp mechanic.

bill84Aug 28, 20165 votes

Mordekaiser feels bad man

Zero Skill TankAug 28, 20168 votes

Oh yeah, Sion is great example. He has stacking HP and powerful shield, so he is made to rely on them, instead of making it a win-win like in case of very mobile champions.

Shadow HazardAug 28, 20165 votes

Kindred fits that desire right from release. I don't see how others were/are able to get away with it for so long tbh.

Count ZubatAug 28, 20165 votes

Lee Sin - 2 dashes - 350 ms Mordekaiser - has neither any mobility spell nor any soft or hard CC - 325 ms

Seriously, buff Morde's ms already ffs.

bony whimsarkAug 28, 20165 votes

boy that's why they are classified as hypermobile. it's like saying: "Why do cool cars also get to go fast?" Don't get me wrong I FUCKING HAte YASUO

Handy Sandy Aug 27, 20162 votes

Agree, yas is still beatable though. Just get some hard cc like how you deal with master yi.

dunder killAug 27, 201617 votes

Its not nearly as easy as with Yi. Yas has multiple dashes with no cooldown and of course has his wind wall

Handy Sandy Aug 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Its not nearly as easy as with Yi. Yas has multiple dashes with no cooldown and of course has his wind wall

Vi is just an initiator, if she builds damage and she jumps in the middle of your team she's gonna die instantly. If she builds tank, she won't do that much damage and you can ignore her for a bit. Yasuo can't dash a lot if minions aren't nearby, the best way to fight him is when you freeze your lane at your turret so he can't run away. You can expect him to put out his windwall when you're a ranged champion and you can play around it. When you have an ult like Veigar only ult him when his windwall is down or when he's stunned.

cope momentAug 28, 201614 votes

they're talking about yi, not vi

GULAG 4 UAug 28, 20163 votes

The thing is Yi can dodge with alpha and can run away with ult unlike yasuo who has to outplay you.

Baron of BreadAug 28, 201624 votes

If Yi is dodging with Alpha he is outplaying you.

GULAG 4 UAug 28, 20161 votes

Eh the point is how easy it is to escape not really outplay. Yi can outplay, but he doesn't need to outplay you in order to gtfo.

doombotMECHAAug 28, 20167 votes

it takes more brains to dodge skills w/ alpha strike than wind wall

GetcuxcdAug 28, 20162 votes

{quoted}

The thing is Yi can dodge with alpha and can run away with ult unlike yasuo who has to use his unnecesarily overloaded abiliy to easily escape from you

FTFY

yall act like he uses so much effort to outplay and if he does that he is skilled and he deserves it.. nah that is super easy to do even against a good player just because how overloaded it is

GULAG 4 UAug 28, 20162 votes

Overloaded also means more ways to fuck up and fuck you up...

OldZileanWasBestAug 28, 20161 votes

Don't give the bronzies who think yas is op any ideas here now

GULAG 4 UAug 28, 20162 votes

Tyrionl is silver 2... Play yasuo yourself before you say it's easy.

ARequestOfDeathAug 28, 20162 votes

does this apply to yi?

KingnewgameplusAug 28, 201612 votes

Eh, I don't mind it on yi. His gameplay fantasy is "Gotta go fest bye adc lol" and his high base MS helps the first part of that.

Zero Skill TankAug 28, 20164 votes

It does, I think, but to somewhat lesser extent.

See, Master Yi is stomping in lower elos(or when he is broken), but he was nerfed for it and is viewed as pretty meh anywhere higher. I believe that if he moved a little slower when his dash and ult are down, he would be easier to properly balance in all levels of play - because he would give more windows of opportunity, he would have been less of a stomper in low-levels, but at the same time his movement abilities could be made a little more powerful, making him more reliable in higher levels.

Friendly RamAug 28, 20162 votes

Give naut more MS?

JSTIN8Aug 28, 20169 votes

Naut has low MS to make up for the fact that he pumps out more CC at regular intervals than just about any other champ in game. Nothing to do with mobility or lack thereof.

nice tableAug 28, 20162 votes

jax only jumps once ... on a 3 sec cool down.

Zero Skill TankAug 28, 20165 votes

Unless Jax maxes leap strike, which he will only do if really fed or in really easy matchup, leap strike's CD only gets that low much later in the game, and if he invests in CDR. Most Jaxes only get 20% CDR from TF, so it will get to 4.8s cooldown by level 13.

He is jumpy, but not in the same way Lee Sin, Yas or Fish are. I.E. resonating strike's base CD is only a second longer than leap strike's, it is usually maxed, it has much greater range, most Lee's will actually invest in CDR, getting between 30 and 45%, and Lee has another dash on top of it.

Jax also doesn't have amount of burst other guys get, unless he does some crazy AP build. I just don't see this as that much of an issue with him.

doombotMECHAAug 28, 20162 votes

i mean, if a jax gets to lategame, he deserves the 3s leap because hes jax. he is the epitomy of hypercarries.

nice tableAug 28, 20163 votes

resonating strike is a skill shot and can only be used on enemies while jax can use his Q even on enemy wards. saying the lee "usually" builds 30-45% cdr is a flat out lie as most competent lee sin players get between 10 and 20% cdr.

KETSU0Aug 28, 20161 votes

Finding something new to bitch about huh, typical lol community.

BatchBustsMetaAug 28, 20166 votes

I didn't find this "bitchy". Just a legit concern, followed by some solid logic. :-/ It's a curious thing, I would actually really like to see Riot's logic on this.

MannysmokerAug 28, 20161 votes

Why is MasterYi is allowed to have the highest MS in the game same to Pantheon and still get even more by having a massive boost and slow immune...so eat shit and die and don't argue what doesn't need to be fixed...

SkiasAug 28, 201613 votes

{quoted}

Why is is allowed to have the highest MS in the game same to and still get even more by having a massive boost and slow immune...so eat shit and die and don't argue what doesn't need to be fixed...

That escalated quickly. Master Yi is super frail and movement speed itself is his design. Its what he's good at. If he's not going fast, he's dead. Yasuo has shields, dashes and a successful tanky build path that makes him unkillable.

Also, calm yourself bro. Been in your basement too long.