PSA: Yasuos ult allows him to ignore 50% of his targets BONUS ARMOR

HateDaddy··82 votes·5,481 views

Meaning that it's not really effective against low armor targets that aren't itemizing it outside of zhonyas in the first place. It is not just 50% armor pen, it only applies to bonus armor. This seems to be a public sentiment for some reason, which is completely wrong and misinformed which is fairly common on these boards. It's amazing what reading can do.

But I know it's coming!

"But HateDaddy. Yasuos Kit is so overloaded he has everything! Why does he need this bonus armor pen to be effective against high armor targets!"

Every melee carry/fighter has some sort of method to deal with their opponent stacking resists.

Nasus' E grants him armor pen, his ult does max% HP magic damage and converts that damage into bonus AD making Nasus basically impossible to itemize against, especially once he gets stacks. Armor is still good against him but he has means to deal with it.

Tryndamere has 2 huge steroids with Crit and AD, not to mention he can remove AD from a target. I've seen Trynd melt 300+ armor targets with just Shiv/BotRK because of absurd amounts of AD the lower he gets on HP and crits. Armor is still good against him but he has means to deal with it.

Master Yi passively gains AD on his E, does a fuck ton of true damage that scales with AD and he scsles incredibly well with just attack speed. I've been a full build Nasus with 400ish armor and still melt to a Yi in seconds and the Yi didn't even have a last whisper. Armor is still good against Yi but he has means to deal with it.

Jax has hybrid scaling on 3 of his spells and has two sources of Magic damage burst while still getting physical damage on spells for building some AP. The running joke has always been that anything is good on Jax because in reality, it's true. Stacking armor vs Jax will help but failing to itemize MR vs him, especially if he goes Trinity/gunblade, is going to have you melt to his empowerment and grand masters might passive. Like Nasus, armor is good against Jax but you can't stack it against him and expect to have reliably itemized vs him - in reality, attack speed slows are the best way to deal with Jax, which is why Nasus and Maphite are so damn good against him. Armor is good against Jax, but he has means to deal with it.

This applies even further to fighters like Olaf, Riven, Fiora, Gangplank, etc. who have either true damage, massive steroids or can ignore armor in some facet. This isnt something that's just unique to Yasuo, this is basically required for any fighter/melee carry to have in order to do damage because they're melee and typicaly have to build 1-2, sometimes 3 defensive items, since they have to be in the thick of things.

And i know, I know, this is where I'm told Yasuo is still overloaded with random passives and damage and crit and resourceless, blah blah. But these people always fail to mention that in exchange for his doubled crit chance, his crit damage is reduced to 90% and 75% on his Q, making randuins and the re-enforced armor mastery so damn good against him, especially with ninja Tabi - which is why any fighter that goes into the defensive tree absolutely mauls Yasuo.

"Omg but hateDaddy hes resourcless!!!"

Resourceless heh. You mean a source of management that really only applies to you for the first 5-7 levels where you'll either get a blue buff, build specifically to increase your mana pool and effectively get rid of mana costs as a meaningful thing, double dorans, flask etc. He does have a resource and his resource is what requires him to constantly keep in motion and use his E to gain it (and to keep stacks up for it to do meaningful damage and expose himself to ganks and minion aggro, which his shield doesn't block). Without this, Yasuo would be a walking minion because he's so stupidly squishy without his shield, which isn't hard to break, not to mention his scaling MR is shit compared to other melees. He pays a big price for "his resourceless" spells.

Then there's windwall, which can be completely played around and is one of the few spells in that game that can legit help against poke comps, which historically have been the most anti fun comps to face and have had the least amount of counterplay. It's also got an absurd Cooldown, so when you blow your ult on a Yasuo when you know windwall is up, it's your fault.

Honestly, nothing about yasuo's Kit is free or upfront. He pays a significant price for everything he has and he's required to always be the one to be burdened with making his kit work. It's hilarious people have an issue with this, because most of them are mage mains that don't want to interact or expect to be able to click on a melee in lane and auto win and are mad they can't. Then they complain it's not fair Yasuo can be good against mages but they ignore the fact that mages go top 2-3 times a season for months at a time and force melees out of the game entirely. But y'know, Yasuo sure is bullshit, even though he's not front loaded with raw power that's complete bullshit like Syndra was (and this was a Morello quote to boot) and many mages are. Honestly, Yasuo might be the best designed champion riot has ever made.

Now I expect to hear stupid things ranging from yasuos 15-20 second windwall somehow negating poke comps entirely, Yasuo is easy to play, Yasuo doesn't pay a price for anything, Yasuo is overloaded etc. Just thought anyone who made these complaints or complained about his "50% armor pen" should know they're wrong.

153 Comments

TrueBIue30 votes

Not sure why yas is getting so much hate recently. If anything people should be upset over how op the juggernaut champions are at the moment.

HateDaddy14 votes

{quoted}

Not sure why yas is getting so much hate recently. If anything people should be upset over how op the juggernaut champions are at the moment.

Yeah but they're going to get toned down. Ryze got to be buffed into bullshit tier and remain that way after his rework for a few patches, as did Elise. Fighters as a class haven't been good for years, they can have a few patches of being bullshit until they're properly tuned.

Keevalroy6 votes

Yasuo has always been broken bullshit - that's never changed. He's been seeing play in the pro scene which unfortunately influenced people to play him again...as if the juggernaut changes weren't bad enough. It was only until people saw him building triforce in the LCS that it reminded everyone that he's still the same fanatically forever-dash-spamming tumor that they abandoned after his last set of nerfs.

As to people believing he's overpowered, understand that a broken kit isn't always an overpowered one. I don't think Yasuo is overpowered, I just fucking hate him and his obnoxious, overloaded, horrendously toxic kit.

I'm all for nerfs, but he needs a damn rework before that, and sooner rather than later is preferable.

HateDaddy14 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo has always been broken bullshit - that's never changed. He's been seeing play in the pro scene which unfortunately influenced people to play him again...as if the juggernaut changes weren't bad enough. It was only until people saw him building triforce in the LCS that it reminded everyone that he's still the same fanatically forever-dash-spamming tumor that they abandoned after his last set of nerfs.

As to people believing he's overpowered, understand that a broken kit isn't always an overpowered one. I don't think Yasuo is overpowered, I just fucking hate him and his obnoxious, overloaded, horrendously toxic kit.

I'm all for nerfs, but he needs a damn rework before that, and sooner rather than later is preferable.

Great designs don't need to be reworked

Keevalroy6 votes

{quoted}

Great designs don't need to be reworked

I agree 100 percent.

JavelinJoe2 votes

I agree with his only flaw being his w. If it was not reactionary, broke after a certain amount of damage blocked, or costed something to use like his flow, I would say he is perfect.

Dextix LT11 votes

IF they are made by CertainlyT and because of their design cannot be balanced properly, then they need to be reworked.

Other examples of "Great" designs. Kalista Thresh

deJasper365 votes

Am i the only one who is happy with these champs that pay off if you can play them really good. (I never play kalista or thresh)

Dextix LT9 votes

These champs are fun to play as, but hell to play against.

Ninpire4 votes

I agree with kalista but thresh honestly doesnt feel toxic to play against. People just hate on him cause hes always meta

Dextix LT5 votes

No, becase hes the best support bar none.

SlytherinUmbreon2 votes

And because Janna is being nerfed for "being too good at everything" while Thresh gets off scotch free.

Puppet33r10 votes

Because on the toplane there are a lot of op champions(Riven Renekton Darius Gnar Olaf JarvanIV ) and each has their own bullshit ability and an overloaded kit attached to it. In the midlane however old mages with no mobility skills(Karthus Malzahar Brand Ziggs Cassiopeia ) can't really do much vs these 2 assholes:Zed Yasuo and this broken mess of a champion that outranges them all, outdamages them all, outwaveclears them all and doesn't need much mana to do it:Azir. Add a bunch of new hp items and juggernauts into the mix and suddenly tears start rolling down their cheeks when they realize how useless they have become.

Zedex2 votes

Idk man, Malz shits on Yasuo pretty hard if he's not completely terrible at mid lane. Brand can too if he plays back and gets jungler help.

Ziggs has no hope. Cassi has strong poke, but mid late game yasuo can eat her with the tank.

Jofeyy4 votes

I've destroyed both Yasuo and Zed with Malzahar so i don't think he should be on that list.

Voluug133 votes

Why the downvotes?

Malzahar 100% ignores Windwall and doesnt give a rat's ass about Yasuo's infinite dashes his QW are aoe and ER are targeted, and is anti-all-in champion per excelence to counter Zed that can manipulate the lane a lot, not to mention he can build lots of HP items and even spellvamp which naturally counter burst and still deals high burst.

The difference is that he needs proper warding to push and play offensive - if you get ganked you will die 100% (50% with flash up), even then you can still get a kill on one of them.

Borbland2 votes

Yasuo is not OP, but he is broken.

He severly lacks counterplay, and makes the mid lane for the enemy into hell and completly unfun to play against, espacially when it's a skillshot mage, because they cant do anything but die or stay behind turret and see all the creeps getting killed while Yasuo dashes around like a hyperactive squirrel and gets 50 cs more then you.

bad manner kid10 votes

There are so many ways to deal with a Yasuo if you really want to poop on his face. Especially champions that completely ignore wind wall.

He's a fast paced champion where you either make a clutch play without missing a link in the chain, or you charge in and miss and look retarded.

His only absolutely awesome ability is being able to hold CC on multiple targets and causing chaos in team fights; which requires a squishy champion to face dive multiple sources of damage.

+1 for the post, with the crit nerf to his build path, he's in a healthy place. If you don't respect him in lane and die over and over to the point where your jungler doesn't want to go near him either, well that's your fault.

Respect: Acknowledging that an assassin/fighter can do a lot of damage and that they have short CDs and you don't.

Slamurai Jack9 votes

Anyone who complains about Yasuo's "free" double crit doesn't understand just how retarded Yasuo would be if he had competitive base stats and damages instead. A Yasuo with base stats and base damages on his abilities that aren't garbage would dominate every lane and he would build just like Jax does. You do not want item 3153 item 3078 item 3143 item 3102 item 3026 item 1320 to be a viable build on Yasuo.

HateDaddy4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F8n7c0yk,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-09-10T23:08:08.105+0000)

Anyone who complains about Yasuo's "free" double crit doesn't understand just how retarded Yasuo would be if he had competitive base stats and damages instead. A Yasuo with base stats and base damages on his abilities that aren't garbage would dominate every lane and he would build just like Jax does. You do not want item 3153 item 3078 item 3143 item 3102 item 3026 item 1320 to be a viable build on Yasuo.

That's the other thing, compared to other melee carries and fighters with similar play style (not that anyone is remarkably close to yasuos playstyle), Yasuo does the least damage of them by far. In exchange for that, he has his ult and windwall that allow him to be a great teamfighter.

Ecodeath7 votes

yas main detected

HateDaddy27 votes

{quoted}

yas main detected

go back2reddit

luckmallory7 votes

Ignore this dude, you should see his other comments the dude is a complete idiot. Is silver 3 and tells diamonds they suck

HateDaddy12 votes

{quoted}

Ignore this dude, you should see his other comments the dude is a complete idiot. Is silver 3 and tells diamonds they suck

Sounds like a redditor

Lugg5 votes

There was a great post on Yasuo about a week ago. It perfectly explained that the only counterplay to Yas is waiting for the player to make a mistake. If he doesn't make a mistake, there is no real counterplay to stop him. Plus, if you put him on a team with a champion who has an AoE knockup, the Yas doesn't even need to be good to carry. That is why people have problems with Yas, he is toxic as hell.

Yas mains feel free to downvote me now since you can't handle the truth.

HateDaddy9 votes

{quoted}

There was a great post on Yasuo about a week ago. It perfectly explained that the only counterplay to Yas is waiting for the player to make a mistake. If he doesn't make a mistake, there is no real counterplay to stop him. Plus, if you put him on a team with a champion who has an AoE knockup, the Yas doesn't even need to be good to carry. That is why people have problems with Yas, he is toxic as hell.

Yas mains feel free to downvote me now since you can't handle the truth.

There's so much wrong with this that it's not even funny. For starters, Yasuo sits in an enemy minion wave constantly, can only dash to you once and is extremely prone to poke during his downtime on E vs you. It's not about playing perfectly because there is no such thing. And if it's against a bruiser, most bruisers by level 4-5 can stand in that wave and beat the shit out of him.

Yasuo has plenty of counterplay and knock-up comps sound great on paper with him but rarely work as well as you'd think. It's like Amumu in low elo, when everyone decides Amumu needs a bug and he Aoe snares them, they cry. It's not much different with Yasuo.

Bad players QQ about him or extremely bias players QQ about him, anything else who has any sort of decent grasp of the game and understands balance knows how well designed Yasuo is and how his design is likely what riot will build the new melee carry concept around instead of just front loaded walking stats.

I don't really downvote anyone, nor am I a Yasuo main. But you are wrong.

Divewing5 votes

The problem in Yasuo is crits. Crit is broken, not Yasuo. His passive gives double crit, side effect includes making him broken

HateDaddy8 votes

{quoted}

The problem in Yasuo is crits. Crit is broken, not Yasuo. His passive gives double crit, side effect includes making him broken

That's a different discussion entirely and one im not getting into for fear of massively sidetracking this thread

Alpharite7 votes

Yasuo without crits would be a contender for one of the worst champions in the game.

Dextix LT3 votes

Not really. This would allow the balance team to actually, well, make him balanced. They remove the crit and add something else. Maybe change a winwall a bit.

Then they can propery balance a champion. Because CertainlyT champions are really hard to balance because of their overloaded kits.

Zorsus1 votes

CertainlyT makes the most fun champions imo

Dextix LT2 votes

Fun to play AS, hell to play AGAINST.

SaltyKracka4 votes

Mostly I'm annoyed by top Yas. Especially by his dash.

My minions should not be a resource for my enemy to use against me.

HateDaddy3 votes

{quoted}

Mostly I'm annoyed by top Yas. Especially by his dash.

My minions should not be a resource for my enemy to use against me.

He also eats absurds amount of minion aggro in top lane and can't dash to them more than once, not to mention he stacks his flow and E this way. This is also a bruiser lane where you should be absolutely wrecking him. Yasuo can basically only hope to cheese a bruiser early, once they get Tabi/Double D-Blades, he's walking farm for them.

Alpharite3 votes

It's funny because they even removed his E flow passive.

Slamurai Jack7 votes

{quoted}

Mostly I'm annoyed by top Yas. Especially by his dash.

My minions should not be a resource for my enemy to use against me.

You're right, using the enemies minions against them is unfair. Nerf Aatrox Bard Brand ChogathIrelia Jax Jinx Katarina Kayle Lissandra Lulu Malzahar MasterYi MissFortune Nasus Pantheon Renekton Rengar Shen Sion Swain Akali Trundle Tryndamere TwistedFate Veigar Vladimir XinZhao Xerath Yorick Ziggs Zilean

HateDaddy6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F8n7c0yk,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2015-09-11T02:26:44.098+0000)

I agree. Nerf Aatrox Bard Brand ChogathIrelia Jax Jinx Katarina Kayle Lissandra Lulu Malzahar MasterYi MissFortune Nasus Pantheon Renekton Rengar Shen Sion Swain Akali Trundle Tryndamere TwistedFate Veigar Vladimir XinZhao Xerath Yorick Ziggs Zilean

HEY

NO

BUFF NASUS

BUFF JAX

Slamurai Jack2 votes

{quoted}

HEY

NO

BUFF NASUS

BUFF JAX

But bruh, they can use your own minions against you, and that's OP. Nerf every champion that can use your minions to fight you.

Incognonymous3 votes

Bonus or not, 50% is an absolutely incredible number, and it's completely and obviously tacked on.

HateDaddy9 votes

{quoted}

Bonus or not, 50% is an absolutely incredible number, and it's completely and obviously tacked on.

What

There is a huge difference between 50% bonus armor pen and 50% armor pen. Not to mention randuins absolutely shits on him. It's "tacked" on no differently than any other passive is on an ult, which several champions on this game have. Complaining about this and not understanding this is not only stupid, it reveals the ignorance and lack of understanding the QQer has for this game.

Incognonymous3 votes

{quoted}

What

There is a huge difference between 50% bonus armor pen and 50% armor pen. Not to mention randuins absolutely shits on him. It's "tacked" on no differently than any other passive is on an ult, which several champions on this game have. Complaining about this and not understanding this is not only stupid, it reveals the ignorance and lack of understanding the QQer has for this game.

I never claimed the contrary, only that 50% is enormous. You know, because it is. Show me a comparable %.

"Randuin's absolutely shits on him"- ROFL, yes, the melee carry less likely to actually autoattack you. Sure. Who builds botrk. Who's nefarious reputation of ignoring armor is legendary. Randuin's. Sure.

What other champs, pray tell, have an unrelated passive tacked on to a CC/mobility/damage ult? No one? No one. Okay. Stick to GD shitposts.

HateDaddy8 votes

{quoted}

I never claimed the contrary, only that 50% is enormous. You know, because it is. Show me a comparable %.

You can't just claim that it's an enormous percentage without factoring in that it only applies to HALF of your BONUS armor and by that argument, I can say only 50% of your bonus armor is ignored. It's wrong all the same. Nasus' E as an example reduces 40 flat armor at max rank, and the shred still applies 5 seconds after you've walked out of his E. That's honestly far more significant considering its not tacked onto his ultimate for only a 15 second uptime after he's actually use it, it's far superior just given its spammability. Darius' E at max rank grants him 25% armor pen, not just bonus armor. Again, not an ult, is a displacement AND a slow while being more soammable.

"Randuin's absolutely shits on him"- ROFL, yes, the melee carry less likely to actually autoattack you. Sure. Who builds botrk. Who's nefarious reputation of ignoring armor is legendary. Randuin's. Sure.

What other champs, pray tell, have an unrelated passive tacked on to a CC/mobility/damage ult? No one? No one. Okay. Stick to GD shitposts.

His Q applies on-hit and crits, still being reduced by randuins and reinforced armor. Just try it, you'd be surprised how effective it is. And Yasuo does auto attack btw. So yes. Randuins.

And what other champion in this game has the usage of their ult being required to have its target(s) displaced and not just freely used in the first place? Nobody. And compared to having his bonus armor pen tacked onto AN ULTIMATE that only applies to bonus armor when others have innate armor shred on more spammable basic abilities, it's hardly that significant. Stick to Downvoting all my posts because you're mad that you're wrong.

One ayyed king1 votes

{quoted}

I never claimed the contrary, only that 50% is enormous. You know, because it is. Show me a comparable %.

Actually its not that big, If you do the math the break point for most champs ends up being around 150 armor at lv 18. If you have around 150 armor at lv18 50% bonus pen just about equals the 35% pen from a last whisper. More then that and he starts to do a bit more damage to you with it then he would with a last whisper. less then that and the 50% bonus pen is worth less then the 35% pen from a last whisper.

Incognonymous2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Least Pro Lee NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F8n7c0yk,comment-id=000a000000000001,timestamp=2015-09-11T04:08:20.615+0000)

Actually its not that big, If you do the math the break point for most champs ends up being around 150 armor at lv 18. If you have around 150 armor at lv18 50% bonus pen just about equals the 35% pen from a last whisper. More then that and he starts to do a bit more damage to you with it then he would with a last whisper. less then that and the 50% bonus pen is worth less then the 35% pen from a last whisper.

An item isn't a comparable figure in champ balance. Why would you think that? Give me a champ.

Akali is SO HOT2 votes

Mages having to interact with a melee champion must be a terrible thing tbh

HateDaddy3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F8n7c0yk,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2015-09-11T01:50:10.281+0000)

Mages having to interact with a melee champion must be a terrible thing tbh

How dare a melee champion be able to farm and fight me in my lane

NineTailedMystic2 votes

It is when his W invalidates kits. Bait it out...yeah, yeah.

HateDaddy4 votes

{quoted}

It is when his W invalidates kits. Bait it out...yeah, yeah.

How exactly does it invalidate kits

I'm really excited to hear this one

NineTailedMystic3 votes

A well timed/placed windwall can invalidate any kit that's compromised entirely of projectiles, i.e Ahri's. Looking at the champ list I guess she is the only one who is entirely projectiles. Guess that's why I hate it so much then.

Devack The Holy2 votes

To be fair, he can also invalidate AP Ez, Lux, Nidalee (He can block her spears, forcing her into Cougar form, where he WILL out-trade her.), Syndra if she can't place the balls behind his wall (And in order to do so, it puts her at risk of being dived on.), and a few others.

Just about the only mages I've had success against Yasuo with are Xerath and Malzahar. Xerath can simply snipe him with Qs, which DO penetrate his wall, spam his W to drop the shield, slow him, and do damage (also can bypass the wall), and ult to snipe him from even further away. Malz just doesn't give a damn about Yas in general. No projectiles at all other than his autos to block, and can make the Yasuo's life absolutely miserable should he try to all-in.

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