The difference between playing vs an overloaded and a…

Pyrithegethon · 2016-08-27T17:57:07.653Z

Overloaded example Gotta dodge that skill shot that slows and the super stupid return hitbox on his Q that is as bad as monster hunters Plesioth hip check. Gotta watch his passive stacks on me or he slows me and gains a lot of movespeed. Oh he is using his W I need to predict where it will go to dodge and not be slowed or stunned by it. Gotta make sure I can play around his E dash. Oh no I'm getting low on health better start disengaging or he gets more damage. Need to watch where his ghost is at all times so that I can either dodge the ult or follow him faster to pick up the kill. Simple example Gotta make sure i can position myself a little away from the minions so he doesn't get a better heal on me. Oh there are minions and he has his E, better watch out for the double dash. He has 50 fury, I need to play safe or he will punish me hard with his empowered abilities. Gotta stay out of his melee range if possible(unless a melee bruiser duh). Look at the difference, Renekton has a few things to look out for while ekko has what feels like 100 things in order to not fuck up. Edit: you barely have to watch for Renektons stuff while you need to look at at least 5 things at Ekko at once.

PennsAug 27, 20169 votes

Well you can miss your Q, place your W badly, dash or ult at the wrong time or just get outplayed with Ekko. Annie is almost always gonna get that stun on you, Renekton isnt ever gonna miss his combo, Warwick wont miss his ult on you for a free gank,...

And its not like complex/"overloaded" champs are automatically better in this game. Annie for example is or was one of the best mid laners even in plat+ for a while now.

THE RlVER KlNGAug 27, 20167 votes

That argument is actually a very poor one.

If you have way more options to do things than everyone else, than your excuse should not be 'oh durr I happened to mess up on just one'. It still stands that you have way more options than everyone else and messing up on just one thing does not hinder you in the slightest. Warwick's ult timing and placement makes or breaks him as a champion and that's it, as is Annie's. If Ekko misses Q or mistimes a combo, then he can just keep spamming Q or press ult to get out for free. On Ekko release they literally said that whenever he messes up he can press R to try, try again.

manbearswineAug 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Annie for example is or was one of the best mid laners even in plat+ for a while now.

Implying plat is any good.

inplaneAug 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Implying plat is any good.

Implying we even implied Plat was good in the first place.

XeruonAug 27, 20167 votes

Annie

Has a simple, easy to learn kit.
Isn't overloaded
Counters hyper-mobile champions, which are usually the ones with overloaded kits

Morgana

Simple Kit, easy to learn
Shuts down hard pushes, mobile champions, and CC engages

Granted, champion picks aren't counterplay but I still felt like mentioning this.

The WhamboozlerAug 27, 201612 votes

Yes, these two are both strong champs with simple kits. They're also kinda often raged about for it. Annie's no-skill stun-burst death beam often gets hate, as does Morg's week-long binding and her "press a button to be immune to CC". Now I agree that neither is a bad thing and that we NEED champs like Annie to counteract the obnoxious hypermobile overloaded burst-monsters of the game, but that doesn't make those champs a good idea. It makes those champs overloaded, hypermobile burst-monsters that can be countered.

It doesn't change the fact that Ekko has two or three times the options and utility of most champs. Hell, tank Ekko might not even die from the annie burst and then can just press R to bail and heal most of the damage she did to him.... and now she's used her entire spell rotation, blown her ult and wasted her stun.

But my point was never "omg ekko is invincible!". He's not. Every champ can and will lose. My point was how loaded things are in his favor out of the gate because he's got so much in his kit. It would be like being told to build a chair and given an entire workshop. Sure, you need to know how to do it, but you have everything you need. Playing a simple champ is like being told to build a chair and being given a single handsaw, a hammer and hand sander. Can you still build a chair? Yeah. But you not only need to still know what you're doing, but you need to work so much harder to get the same result. If both people crafting are equally skilled the one with the better tools will always be better off. He'll make quality chairs faster and easier. THAT was my point. That the simple champs have an uphill battle in trying to keep up with their overloaded fellows, and unless there is a major division of skill the overloaded characters will have the edge simply because they can do so much more and often have tricks that the more simple champs have no answer for.

XeruonAug 28, 20161 votes

I think that the problem is that majority of champions are "underloaded," and that's why overloaded champions are sticking out like a sore thumb, though I think that's just me.

Tychusfindlay919Aug 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I think that the problem is that majority of champions are "underloaded," and that's why overloaded champions are sticking out like a sore thumb, though I think that's just me.

Try and make darius more complex without ruining his entire purpose and theme. Better yet try that with garen.

Erractic EickAug 29, 20161 votes

While I somewhat disagree, I applaud and am thoroughly impressed by how well you reasoned and how cool you kept yourself while presenting your argument. Many people lose their heads when they find someone disagrees with their opinion. +1

The WhamboozlerAug 30, 20161 votes

Thanks. I can't always tell if I'm making a good point or just rambling like a loon, but I try to do is calmly. Screaming, insulting people and acting like an idiot gets no one anywhere. In act in a real debate I'd say it almost instantly loses you the argument.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

AdanimAug 28, 20161 votes

Granted, champion picks aren't counterplay but I still felt like mentioning this.

Counter-picking is the first step to counterplay. I don't get why people say it isn't. Counterplay is using what is available to you to give yourself an advantage and shut down another champion, and counter-picking is exactly that.

OxyPoroAug 28, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Maybe if you're also playing an overloaded, complex champion. But if you're playing a relatively simple one you may simply lack the tools to keep up with or punish an overloaded, hyper-mobile champ even if they DO mess up.

I mean, even in that above example. All Ekko has to do to get out of a mess he put himself in is ult. If he doesn't have ult he can then throw his shield in the path he intends to flee then dash away into it, forcing you to stun yourself if you chase him. He can pop over a wall with his dash, or he can just run away while slowing you with a Q. Chasing straight after him means eating that Q return trip too. He can juke your skill shots with his dash or soak them with his shield.

More options NEVER make a champion weaker. They simply make a champ harder to play to the fullest. But Renekton runs out of options pretty quick and has nothing left he can do to flee/force a fight/juke/secure a kill or what have you. That renekton could be a very good renekton and still be unable to keep up with an ekko player of lesser skill just because Ekko has so much more he can do and so many extra tricks in his bag. Will Ekko always win? Nah. Does ekko have more tools to win? Yes.

And as is almost-always the case with overloaded types... this means Ekko's success or failure is tied more to himself than to his enemy. For Ekko to win, he needs to use his skills well. For Ekko to lose, he needs to use his skills poorly. But for poor Renek to win he needs to play well AND hope Ekko plays poorly, because otherwise that little twerp is going to run rings around him and pick him apart. This isn't even getting into their abilities and how much overall use and utility they bring to their teams once one-on-one laning is over.

Yeah, sorry man but the argument of "yeah he's got more options so he's easier to mess up" is the most weaksauce defense I've ever heard to justify overloaded champs not being broken. And if you're rich more people want to rob you. I guess that's why no one wants to be rich, right? Such absurd logic.

This is so accurate it hurts, should be an own thread.

Nameless VoiceAug 28, 20162 votes

Excellent post.

The part about one-sided matchups is especially true and is what bothers me when playing against overloaded champions. After a certain level of skill, it's not really about you at all, it's all about whether your opponent on the overloaded champion messes up or not. I had wanted to make a graph about this effect. When an opposing champion has lots of tools to negate your plays, then basically, after a certain point, you get much less value in the matchup per "point of skill" compared to the person playing that champion. At low skill levels, if you both have an equal amount of skill you have roughly an equal chance of winning, but at higher levels, you have a much lower chance of winning at equal skill because the skill level for the other champion is just much more effective, so you have to be significantly better than the other player to beat them.

The difference between playing vs an overloaded and a simple champion

32 Comments

More from Gameplay

More by Pyrithegethon