Can we not make up a myth that Zed has good waveclear?

AirKingNeo·May 1, 2018·16 votes·3,249 views

The past week I keep seeing posts spouting the definitive lie that Zed's waveclear is good.

His W, that creates his shadow to use his Q and E, has a 22 cooldown rank 1 (and is maxed last). That's not good for waveclear at all. Zed runs out of energy if he does a full WQE to waveclear and never hits you with his Q.

Why the bloody hell are people being attacking for pointing out the actual facts by saying what I'm repeating? This is basic knowledge that everyone should research before making a post. The information is out there and it's a google search away. No excuse for false information.

60 Comments

HibekiMay 1, 201815 votes

22 seconds

minions spawn every 30

Seems good to me

Also I did the math

A Zed with item 3134 item 3133 , has about 70 bonus AD. Lets assume hes levvel 7

His Q on the first targeet (double Q) will do 510 damage, which off the bat already will outright kill a melee minion. But lets say its later in the match so its gonna at the VERY MOST leave them with an auto to kill them. They start with 455 health, with 15 bonus health every 3 minutes.

So hes already killled 1, the next hits will do 306 damage.

Now we do E, which brings it up to 444 damage.

Which probably also kills the casters. But lets say it leaves them at a speck of health. You have to wait a whopping 4.5 seconds to use another E to finish them off.

Pretty good clear to me.

remakoroMay 1, 20182 votes

NO! THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO INSTAKILL FULL WAVE EVERY 10 SECONDS!111

There is consideration about using W for escaping, poking or going all in. I mean its well know fact that when mages use their abilities nothing goes on CD. Everything comes free of costs and they actually get more resists after that. Its not like assassins have extreme mobility and much lower cooldows to exploit some non-existant windows of vulnerability... Such nonsense, right?

HibekiMay 1, 20182 votes

Hell with 20% CDR zed can use a second Q with the shadow.

Zed right now with the buffs means that if the shadow from his ult hits you at all youre pretty much just guaranteed dead.

AirKingNeoMay 2, 20181 votes

20% CDR on Zed would be item 3142 item 3133 or a minimum 4000 gold.

HibekiMay 2, 20182 votes

Or transcendence rune level 10. Which isnt uncommon

AirKingNeoMay 2, 20181 votes

that's 10 minutes (or realistically 8) where you cannot trade if you spammed waveclear with W and Q.

HibekiMay 2, 20182 votes

Uh you can throw 5 Q's in the span of one minion wave, and use shadow to trade in the meantime. Theres 8 seconds before another wave spawns so you can still clear it.

Just face it. You've never played as with or against zed and have no idea what you are talking about

flibitydooMay 1, 20186 votes

like a mage he's not going to oneshot the minion waves until later into the game

unlike a mage, he actually has built AD items which means his autos are stronger which means he can clean up those waves with autos much much faster than a mage can

HibekiMay 2, 20182 votes

I just did the math, if you land all of your stuff you will oneshot the backline and maybe leave the frontline with a speck of health

EedatMay 2, 20181 votes

No, you did the math if Zed's Q did true damage which it does not. You also neglected the fact that Zed's Q does significantly less damage after the first hit. You did not do the math. You made up some math that agreed with your point

HibekiMay 2, 20182 votes

Minions dont have armor.....

Also, no i did not neglect that fact. You neglected to read all the way through. Youre just denying facts.

EedatMay 2, 20181 votes

Active: Zed throws his spinning blades forward, dealing physical damage to all enemies they pass through, reduced to 60% against units beyond the first. Active Living Shadows also throw a shuriken towards the target point.

HibekiMay 2, 20182 votes

So hes already killled 1, the next hits will do 306 damage.

READ

AirKingNeoMay 2, 20182 votes

Dirk + Caul is 50 bonus AD and he doesn't get doran's blade.

Ignoring 22 second CD means he can't trade in lane if he uses it for waveclear.

HibekiMay 2, 20182 votes

You start dblade into brutal matchups and you get 15 from rune pages

AirKingNeoMay 2, 20181 votes

still shit waveclear

HibekiMay 2, 20182 votes

Did you literally read the post I put? In one rotation you kill a full wave and if not you just wait 4.5 seconds and finish it off.

And talking about "Oh you cant trade" you can throw out another Q just before the shadow ends for a trade anyway.

Looking at your opgg not only have you never played zed you have literally never played mid (Zed's lane) once on your account in ranked. Looked through all seasons.

literally denying facts.

AirKingNeoMay 2, 20181 votes

Did you literally read the post I put? In one rotation you kill a full wave and if not you just wait 4.5 seconds and finish it off.

Do you know how long 4.5 seconds is? Do you know that laning phase's waveclear issue isn't at 2200 gold so realistically Zed should have a Dirk/Hammer + Longsword only.

And talking about "Oh you cant trade" you can throw out another Q just before the shadow ends for a trade anyway.

At 10% CDR, Zed's Q is on a 5.4-second cooldown. Shadow lasts for 5 seconds. You physical can't throw another Shuriken.

Also, I was referring to lack of W being off cooldown as your ability to trade (get in melee range), but you've kinda thrown yourself into a hole here...

Looking at your opgg not only have you never played zed you have literally never played mid (Zed's lane) once on your account in ranked. Looked through all seasons.

But if I played Zed, would you call me biased in favor of him then? At what point would I be allowed to say anything in this hypothetical? None

At that point, it's stupid to try to invalidate opinions on bias.

HibekiMay 2, 20184 votes

So youre saying Anivia has bad waveclear because she takes longer than 4.5 seconds?

And at level 10 with transcendence or another 10% from an item you can throw another Q

You have no experience playing with, as, or against zed in any way shape or form. Having any bias implies you have a basis to begin with, which you dont.

Hell you dont even have to wait 4.5 seconds just auto the damn minions during the combo and youll do it in less than 2

DuskDaUmbreonMay 1, 20186 votes

You don't need W to clear. E>Q is enough to clear most of the wave.

Also, let's not pretend it takes long for energy to come back. It's 10 per second.

dunder killMay 1, 20188 votes

Alright Zed walks into melee range of the caster creeps and blows his cooldowns clearing only the casters. Meanwhile his lane opponent stands there politely and lets him do so without killing him and the melees are at full HP. Right. Fantastic waveclear

DuskDaUmbreonMay 1, 20184 votes

Waveclear exists outside of 1v1s in laning phase...

Yaśuo MainMay 1, 20186 votes

His EQ isn't gonna kill a single minion early game to level 8 at best

dunder killMay 1, 20188 votes

And it also doesn't. Funny how you want to focus only on the scenario where it's decent which is when he is alone in lane when it's dogshit in any other. By your logic, a Shen with Sunfire has fantastic Waveclear lmao

remakoroMay 1, 20185 votes

lux casts her E. Does not kill fucking anyone. End of story. Wait 8 seconds to try again. If you still have any mana for second cast. Zed has better waveclear than MANY champions. Which makes it GOOD waveclear.

dunder killMay 2, 20181 votes

Wow that sounds terrible

Zed casts all three of his abilities. Does not fucking kill anyone. End of story. Wait ***22 seconds *** to try again

Great point you have there.

I need to come clean. I wasnt honest when I said you had a good point. What I meant was it was complete trash. I apologize for the deception

remakoroMay 2, 20181 votes

Lvl 3 Lux with lvl 2 E = 125 dmg and she had to spend 1/6 of her total mana for that. Which does not regenerate at rate of 10 per second. 9.5s CD

Zed uses 3 abilities on lvl 3 = 60 to 180 dmg from his Q to targets hit (depending on how you placed your shadows)

80 to just about everyone from his E For a total of 130 to 260 dmg... And he will have all spent energy restored before his W will come off CD. HMMMMMMM I dont know dude. Sounds like you hit your head somewhere...

341123545652May 1, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Alright Zed walks into melee range of the caster creeps and blows his cooldowns clearing only the casters. Meanwhile his lane opponent stands there politely and lets him do so without killing him and the melees are at full HP. Right. Fantastic waveclear

Thats the thing, bronze to gold players are so scared of this "op zed champ" that they literally will sit back and politely let him do literally w/e he wants , I dare one of them to upload a video of them laning vs zed.

Automated RivenMay 2, 20181 votes

I'm silver 1 and the last several times I played against assassin's I shit on them up till level six. All of them had 15-39 cs less and were at least half a level behind.

Colton147May 1, 20185 votes

Compared to other assassins - especially Leblanc and Fizz ; Zed 's wave clear is superior.

DisembarkMay 1, 20181 votes

Honestly most Assassins have comparable waveclear. I’d say Fizz is particularly weak because using his E to waveclear isn’t realistic, and Ekko is particularly strong.

Actually Kassadin might have the worst waveclear pre-6.

remakoroMay 1, 20185 votes

I guess this topic is the best evidence of how spoiled assassin players are. Meaning nothing they say should be taken seriously.

Jaygo41May 1, 20182 votes

Man i didn't know League had it's own form of identity politics. You are a net negative to this discussion.

remakoroMay 1, 20182 votes

I guess this topic is the best evidence of how spoiled assassin players are. Meaning nothing they say should be taken seriously.

There is no discussion. Try to waveclear as Sona. Or even LB. Then tell me how hard is it to waveclear as champion with 2 basic abilities being low CD and AOE and third one empowering them on a champion capable of building item 3077 (which actually isnt so bad on him). He has better waveclear than like 3/4 of champions.

BlåbæretMay 1, 20184 votes

Zed does have good wave clear and never has to back to refill his manabar. No other assassin even comes close. He's AD-based as well, which makes it even simpler to clear waves.

AirKingNeoMay 2, 20182 votes

except it means he can't trade with you because he has no energy.

QuarelMothaFcknPMay 1, 20183 votes

He has much better wave clear then most champions in the mid lane in the early and mid game. But many mages can out wave clear him in the late game and of course an adc will always do better once they get like two crit items or one damage item and a rageblade. His mid game wave clear can be a bit too much considering he is an assassin, and yes its good wave clear, even if he has to blow an important, longer then average cooldown to do it. But its not what makes him unbalanced atm, its his overall power in the laning phase.

NyarlathοtepMay 1, 20183 votes

Can we not make up a myth that Zed has good waveclear?

Can we not make up a myth that zed has not a godlike waveclear compared to other assassins?

Automated RivenMay 2, 20184 votes

As far as assassin's go talon/fizz/ekko all have better waveclear then zed and leblanc has worse. Other assassin's don't lane.

NyarlathοtepMay 2, 2018

All 3 of them have mana. Fizz has his e and needs to expose himself (zed wqe). Ekko has less burst(or rather he is easier to handle than the rest).

Aliied champion1May 1, 20183 votes

why everybody so afraid of Zed? I main him and he's pretty easy to counter item 2420 item 3157 , plus zed will probably hit the minions that are low hp with his q rather than you, if you get in the way, your fault. He also can't easily wave clear early and will only kill 1 or 2 caster minions and make the melee minion half hp or 3/4 hp. Once he get at least 3 item, that the part where he can WEQ the wave and clear most minions.

remakoroMay 1, 20181 votes

Zed R cd lvl 1 0 CDR - 120s lvl 3 40% CDR 36s item 3157 - 120s CD. And even if you negate some dmg using it u still can easily get fucked when duration ends. Nice counter. Its more of nessesity than counter.

AzadetheMay 1, 20183 votes

I don't fault you for not knowing this, but Pro Zeds will almost never Ult a champ who has an up Stopwatch/Zhonya's.

They have enough coordination to kill you without their R, and they save their R for risky fights where they need to get in, get out. The primary champ who actually gets ulted is actually a tank, because his ult does damaged based on Premitigation damage. Low HP mages/Adcs he just sets up 2 shadows near point blank, and shoot 2 Shurikens and 2 blade spins. And if you waste a Zhonya's vs that, he will THEN ult you.

Zeds don't often play like that in your Silver. They do play like that in Diamond+

HyquiemMay 1, 20182 votes

He doesn’t have dierect wave clear. But he can equally clear a wave when he is oppertuned.

SchàdenfreudeMay 1, 20183 votes

Yeah but he is opportuned only every 22 seconds, which means he doesn't have good wave clear.

DaBroMooMay 2, 20182 votes

Sounds like AirKingNeo, wants his cake and to eat it as well.... You can't give an assassin instant wave clear, he already has the potential to one shot squishes with relative ease..... Giving him instant wave clear would just be silly, he has to has some "downsides". Doesn't use mana, energy regenerates quickly, great kill potential and now you want to see him one shot waves to. I've played Zed plenty to know he doesn't have wave clear issues.

AirKingNeoMay 2, 20181 votes

I never said I wanted Zed to have waveclear.

I simply said he doesn't have it. I'm just spreading truth.

XurrealMay 1, 20181 votes

Indeed. He generally only has decent waveclear when he specs for it. Less CDR and more Raw Attack Damage and Cleave passive from Tiamat's item family.

Any champ can be specced for wave clear, really, its all a matter of intent.

AirKingNeoMay 2, 20182 votes

no zed buys tiamat