Can Ninja Tabis get a nerf?

BrightWîngs·Feb 25, 2018·7 votes·4,254 views

I hate complaining I don't want to complain but Tabis are too strong for just boots 1100 gold item its too good of an item to rush like if you're in any AD matchup getting Tabis early just makes them useless you're too tanky for them to kill you and if they use basic attacks at all which most ad champs do you're just taking 10% less of that damage and since they are just boots it doesn't set them back really I don't know what needs to be done to make it better I'm no expert and I wont act like I am but I do feel Tabis are too strong.

24 Comments

RiotRiotRepertoirFeb 26, 201813 votes

Back when I was doing some work on tank items going into last year's mid season, I was pretty convinced that an effect as strong as Ninja Tabi's really shouldn't exist until like a high tier completed item. What kept me from changing it was honestly 1) there's a decent argument that it being in the boots slot means it comes at a significant opportunity cost (this assumes the other boots have equally powerful/desirable effects) and 2) it was difficult to know what effect would be appropriate here.

I'm still pretty convinced we could do better here, but unfortunately, I'm not sure what the solution is.

RexxieeFeb 26, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Back when I was doing some work on tank items going into last year's mid season, I was pretty convinced that an effect as strong as Ninja Tabi's really shouldn't exist until like a high tier completed item. What kept me from changing it was honestly 1) there's a decent argument that it being in the boots slot means it comes at a significant opportunity cost (this assumes the other boots have equally powerful/desirable effects) and 2) it was difficult to know what effect would be appropriate here.

I'm still pretty convinced we could do better here, but unfortunately, I'm not sure what the solution is.

Just nerf it, or completely rework it.

Tabi is far too strong at all phases of the game across every class of champions against AD, that is not anywhere near fine.

Tabi also invalidade bruisers far too easily in the early game.

Linna ExcelFeb 26, 20182 votes

Tabi also invalidade bruisers far too easily in the early game.

Unfortunately, you kind of need them to deal with lethality abusers and AD assassin metas.

NemeBroFeb 26, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Just nerf it, or completely rework it.

Tabi is far too strong at all phases of the game across every class of champions against AD, that is not anywhere near fine.

Tabi also invalidade bruisers far too easily in the early game.

God no, tabi are 100% necessary against the enemy ADC and certain picks like Tryndamere and Yasuo (I main both of those champions btw).

They're just too good at stonewalling fighters with less single auto damage in lane right now.

AnonagonFeb 26, 20181 votes

I think the primary problem with Tabis as they exist in the game currently is that they are a powerful defensive effect balanced around lategame crit carry damage that comes into effect super early in the game. I believe there needs to be a melee/ranged split on the passive, because currently they are far too efficient against fighters while perfectly fine against ADCs.

LankPantsFeb 26, 201810 votes

If you're going to nerf Tabi you need to take a hatchet to ADC power levels first. In the current game Tabi are a crutch that allow tanks and fighters to be semicompetitive with ADCs absurd damage output.

RiotRiotRepertoirFeb 26, 20187 votes

Yeah. Totally agree there are significant considerations to be made.

HópeFeb 26, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Yeah. Totally agree there are significant considerations to be made.

Im sorry but that person doesnt speak for everyone.

But saying ''Tabi are a cruch that allow tanks and fighers to be semicompetitive with ADCs absurd damage output'' is 100% bullshit.

Many people on the boards are going to cry about ADCs just because they got 2-3 shotted while 3 levels behind. Many times i see people ''RITO NERF ADCS'' and then we check their match history and they are 100 cs 3-0 at 30 minutes vs the 288 farm Tristana thats 0-5.

I do agree tabis DO need a nerf, but not justify what he said considering Randuins/frozen heart is an amazing item against ADCs too

AMYS GRAVEFeb 26, 20183 votes

What a polite way to say that defensive effects can't be nerfed because of the powercrept damage in the game.

JabaTheHatFeb 26, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yeah. Totally agree there are significant considerations to be made.

Would you say the problem with ADCs is the power of crit items?

I think lethality and on-hit marksmen are fine. They focus on either squishy killing or tank/bruiser killing only, while suffering in the other aspect. This seems like a appropriate balance where you have a good reason to go a specific marksmen and build a specific way.

But crit is just too ubiquitously strong against all kinds of targets. It also has two unhealthy play patterns --- 1) RNG at low crit chance 2) EXTREME scaling, which, while is appropriate against tanky targets, kill squishes way too fast in the late game.

Can you guys retain marksmen' ability to kill tanks, juggernauts and bruisers while tuning down their ability to assassinate sqiushies? A good way to do this I think is nerfing or even removing crit but buffing BONUS armor pen, MAX health % damage and BONUS health% damage on new items.

This would make the play pattern of ADCs more healthy while keeping their intended role. And from that point you'll pick ADC bot lane if they have tanky targets. And if they have squishy targets you can go a mage or something else.

Sun Wu RyuumokuFeb 26, 20182 votes

others boots aren't equally desirable as tabi, not even near.
it was... and since ??? what's the plan ??? This item c*ckblock all AD even one not relying on aa.

SõnaFeb 26, 20182 votes

Maybe get an AD boot to compete against Armor boot. Especially when tank's item are much cheaper + Ninja Tabi is really strong.

The Yetii RiderFeb 26, 20182 votes

Repetoir, I think your points here are valid, but I will say with a straight face that item 3111 is not equally powerful or desirable to item 3047 . Between all the displacement effects in the game ( Kayn is a popular one now, and XinZhao is growing in popularity again...) and the fact that Legend: Tenacity gives you 20% slotless Tenacity, I really don't think that there's a reason for divers or tanks to really care about item 3111 .

Skirmishers almost universally do not give a shit about crowd control in the first place, so if they want a defensive boost they'll always go for item 3047 . Juggernauts may be the only ones who would value stacking Tenacity up to 60% or so, but even then they may just prefer the armor offered in the laning phase because juggernauts only ever go top lane.

Ninja Tabi's effect would be much better as part of item 3143 , making it THE anti-auto attacker item (selfish, as opposed to item 3110 , though there's an argument for whether we should keep that aura in the game at all).

As for what effects would be appropriate on an armor boot item, it should be an anti-assassin item. Tanks and divers are unable to rush pure armor items to deal with AD assassins like they could in the old days (you have to get item 1401 on tanks), meanwhile assassins are rushing lethality. If assassins want to rush lethality and roam for their kills, great. Let them get their kills on enchanters, marksmen or mages. Not divers or vanguards.

Suggested specifics: Unique Passive - Wood Style - Enemies who dash or blink within 300 units of you deal 5% less physical damage with their abilities for 2 seconds.

Unique Passive - Armor Plating - Moving builds up charges, and at 100 charges, you gain a shield that absorbs 20xlevel physical damage.

Unique Passive - Vanguard's Reinforcement - When you immobilize an enemy champion, reduce their physical damage output to you by 20% for 4 seconds (with an Exhaust animation). This effect does not stack with Challenging Smite. Cooldown 60 seconds.

Evil YasuoFeb 26, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Back when I was doing some work on tank items going into last year's mid season, I was pretty convinced that an effect as strong as Ninja Tabi's really shouldn't exist until like a high tier completed item. What kept me from changing it was honestly 1) there's a decent argument that it being in the boots slot means it comes at a significant opportunity cost (this assumes the other boots have equally powerful/desirable effects) and 2) it was difficult to know what effect would be appropriate here.

I'm still pretty convinced we could do better here, but unfortunately, I'm not sure what the solution is.

I just dislike the fact that even adc's build them now. It'd be cool to have boots with damage/ap/lethality/etc. on them. EXAMPLE: Warrior greaves +45 movement speed +30dmg

BrightWîngsFeb 26, 20181 votes

thanks for the input idk either like i said no expert i'm not gonna tell you guys how to do your jobs i just felt there were a little too strong thanks for the response <3

sleepysithlordFeb 26, 20181 votes

Could we make tabi scale? Make it do like 4%-10% aa damage reduction dependent on level

SohleksFeb 26, 20182 votes

What if we chucked tabis out of the game... if other boots are more interesting? Just have to change physical dmg pretty much across the board. lol.

Probably would haveta make mercs less about the MR too.

SohleksFeb 26, 20182 votes

In actuality what I've actually thought to do is nerf the armor significantly (like minus 10) but buff the passive slightly. This shifts its power curve later game and to what makes it different reducing its rush potency (and specialize it more for auto attacks and less so abilities). Maybe its rush potency was desired. I think it's too desired though.

However the passive is uncounterable. And it would be meh if it was best in slot shoe always end game. But better that than best armor item at all times.

LyingOnLineFeb 26, 20182 votes

Ye gods, no.

Delete Tabis and the first thing that’ll happen is Quinn and Jayce absolutely taking over toplane.

Real talk; The reason Tabis get built so much is that the other defensive boots (Mercs, Swifties) are irrelevant right now.

BrightWîngsFeb 26, 20181 votes

I didn't say delete them I said nerf them

SohleksFeb 26, 20181 votes

I was starting to wonder if T2 shoes were just meant to be op.

Tabis is so good because... it's the best physical defense up at 1000g. As well as getting your movement speed.. movement speed which is both powerful and useful in general but extra good vs. melees.

I wondered if tabis were left OP because fighters who want offensive items almost rely on it to survive mid game. However it can more hinder them in lane.

Running tabis on say Teemo tends to be GG for opposing melee AD as Teemo is innately offensively powerful.

And if there is always adc and you're laning top vs. ad it's always a fine buy.