Black Cleaver vs. Tank Update items

The Ecdysiast··2 votes·784 views

Either remove the CDR from Cleaver, or add 20 CDR into the both Dead Man's and Sunfire. The gold cost of 20% cdr is actually less than the 580 difference in gold efficiency, so either direction would be completely balanced.

Black Cleaver has 100% gold efficiency with 400 hp, 20% cdr, 24% armor reduction, and 20-60% movement speed. At only 3000 cost. Sunfire and Deadman's have only 80% efficiency, 425 HP, 60 armor, and their respective passives which in deadman's case only brings it to 105% efficiency until you attack -- the efficiency from movespeed is meaningless in combat.

So you're effectively paying 480g more for a weaker item even though it's supposed to defend against physical damage. And no cooldown reduction.

Via the equations you can find on the wiki, the 10 armor increase (only a 7.6 armor increase after being slashed by Cleaver) falls far short of matching the 75 HP reduction, so that rather than Riot's goal of the items being just as effective against their damage type they're simply less effective against all possible damage types.

So Cleaver, which was already at an advantage against an armor+HP item to start due to the large amount of cooldown reduction and more effective build path, is now drastically stronger against these items. Especially for champions whose kits have such low mana costs and high inherent defenses that they can rush it with no downsides.

2 Comments

Subject 51 votes

Movement speed means a lot in combat. Tank items are just underwhelming because Riot made very specific reworks incredibly overwhelming via Zac/Sejuani. The problem now is that there are specific tanks that need good tank items but if tank items were to increase - the top tier would be way to fucking strong. Cleaver is fine as it is - tanks on the other hand . . . well they have it rough. Because people don't like tanks. Because . . . I don't really know why- maybe they just liked season 5 when fights lasted 3.25 seconds.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

You've hit another point right on the head.

Movement speed means a lot in combat. Which only further increases the advantages given by the Rage passive, which happens during combat, against the Deadman movespeed, which only happens outside of combat.

The suggestion to add 20% CDR to both items fixes the issue that every other class of champions besides tanks (minus supports) has an option to get 20% CDR on their first item. Triforce, Cleaver, Morello, Nashor's.

Adding 20% CDR would only even out the gold deficit between the tank items and Cleaver's base stats. Cleaver's passive still far outclasses either of those items (unless you're Singed).

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