Lets Give Rakan's Q Some Love

Professor Ward··18 votes·2,105 views

**Currently if you were to remove rakans q entirely, and not replace it, i believe rakan would perform at an extremely similar rate to what he does now. **

Damage is minuscule, though i am ok with that as of now.

Range, although better than release, is still just too short for what you gain. At this point its a "works better as a melee skillshot after engage".

The heal really feels like a "win more " in most cases and rarely gets used as a high uptime sustain tool like most every other support heal in the game, especially considering how proximity/skill reliant it is to land.

Mana cost seems fine, as does rakans mana expenditure as a whole.

Cooldown seems maybe a LITTLE high at most, but still fair.

Some ideas i have in no particular order or combination: Adding an aoe to the skill shot finish, such as karmas q. Adding a pass through such as bard or lux q on hit. Making the ability able to pass through minions. Increasing the range again slightly. Increasing the uptime slightly. Increasing the heal slightly Adding a slow. Adding a movespeed buff for rakan on hit. Adding a movespeed buff for xayah on hit. Adding a movespeed buff on heal. Refunding mana on hit. Decreasing other ability cooldowns on hit. Grant Vision of Target. Increase damage for abilities landed after, increasing the potency and skill expression. Make it shield penetrating.<- one of my fav's

35 Comments

1wolfpack6 votes

I agree, that ability is beyond useless. literally anything to improve it will be great.

Kubox4 votes

So, I got two ideas in mind.

A change that could be interesting is one that reduces or even refreshes his passive's cooldown whenever he and an ally collide for the heal, or even take both effects into account where colliding with an ally refreshes the cooldown while waiting it out only reduces it.

Currently Rakan's combo is to jump in with his shield up, attack for a while, jump pack a bit after his shield blew up and rely on his shields to let his carry tank. This makes it so once he does go back, he can either go straight back in or, at the very least, brush off some damage on his return. It also forces a decision on him : stay in and AA or go back and get your shield.

The second idea is to buff his AA while waiting for the heal. It could be straight up bonus damage, increased attack speed or even some form of life on it where he heals both him and his ally a small amount every AA. Basically reward Rakan for staying in and AA, similarly to other engage supports. Also means you can heavily punish him by turning on his carry as forcing him to shield back means he loses that buff. They could even slightly delay the heal from proccing on it's own, really enforcing the "stay in and fight or go back and peel" mindset.

Though I also like the idea of a movespeed boost when he hits his Q, even if, like my other ideas, I'd put it on the heal proc itself (but let it proc on his own rather than force him to heal someone).

Professor Ward1 votes

{quoted}

So, I got two ideas in mind.

A change that could be interesting is one that reduces or even refreshes his passive's cooldown whenever he and an ally collide for the heal, or even take both effects into account where colliding with an ally refreshes the cooldown while waiting it out only reduces it.

Currently Rakan's combo is to jump in with his shield up, attack for a while, jump pack a bit after his shield blew up and rely on his shields to let his carry tank. This makes it so once he does go back, he can either go straight back in or, at the very least, brush off some damage on his return. It also forces a decision on him : stay in and AA or go back and get your shield.

The second idea is to buff his AA while waiting for the heal. It could be straight up bonus damage, increased attack speed or even some form of life on it where he heals both him and his ally a small amount every AA. Basically reward Rakan for staying in and AA, similarly to other engage supports. Also means you can heavily punish him by turning on his carry as forcing him to shield back means he loses that buff. They could even slightly delay the heal from proccing on it's own, really enforcing the "stay in and fight or go back and peel" mindset.

Though I also like the idea of a movespeed boost when he hits his Q, even if, like my other ideas, I'd put it on the heal proc itself (but let it proc on his own rather than force him to heal someone).

i really like these ideas.

chipndip12 votes

If you level Q first, it's actually a solid poking tool.

Professor Ward1 votes

{quoted}

If you level Q first, it's actually a solid poking tool.

Its just underwhelming compared to most heals. First one i checked, nami's, heals for 3x as much at level one and can proc 2 heal instances and a damage proc** without being able to miss it**. I understand its a different champion with different things going on, but when comparing it alone, its the weakest heal in the game.

Neclord2 votes

That's why he said it was a solid poking tool rather than a solid healing tool.

Azadethe1 votes

Depends on if you're throwing around a standard "Shield/healing power" Item build, or an AP build.

It scales very high as an AP build, but sucks as base heals are low on active item builds.

Throw together item 3504 item 3165 item 3040 and some tank items, and it becomes an insanely strong heal.

Rathar Dashing1 votes

item 3027 every time I play him. Works wonders on him, the AP is great, and the tank stats are really good on him, plus the passive helps his sustain in lane.

Azadethe1 votes

I can see it. I usually go item 3001 if I want Eternity, but if purely trying to run the AP for heals, yeah. ROA (I usually Jungle or top Rakan, so I'm more about damage than about the heals...... it's funny anti laning Nasus with Rakan, and watching Rakan heal right out of a Nasus Q and baiting him under your turret for Charm > W and another Q)

Rathar Dashing1 votes

ROA is cheaper and it gives more health and mana, it just lacks the MR. AM is good if you want to build tanky and still do damage, especially if you have a high magic damage comp or need the 10% cdr early, but the 100 AP on ROA translates into 90 HP for your shield, or even more if you're taking a heal/shield power source. Not much of a Top Rakan player so I only speak from support experience.

chipndip11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Professor Ward,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EuG1pApr,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-02-02T22:05:49.641+0000)

Its just underwhelming compared to most heals. First one i checked, nami's, heals for 3x as much at level one and can proc 2 heal instances and a damage proc** without being able to miss it**. I understand its a different champion with different things going on, but when comparing it alone, its the weakest heal in the game.

Rakan's heal can heal 5 people. Any value on his heal can be multiplied by up to 5, with a .7 ap ratio.

Also, the main point of Rakan is to engage big fights, not to spam heals. Q is really a laning tool more than anything. The focus of Rakan are his ult, his E dashes, and his W engage.

Enchanters get better healing mechanics because they're actually based around defensive spells like healing. Rakan is a catcher. He's not concerned with healing. Also, he has a shield he can apply twice per cd.

Azadethe1 votes

Q is more of a Drake/Baron tool than a laning tool. It activates on Epic Monsters and is spammable, making the safest epic monster takes in the game.

Rakan's hit is good for engages, but it's underutilized if you don't heal. When I jungle/top Rakan I average 17-20k heals because I actually use it for trades. It's good vs any line of sight matchup like Karma Brand because they have to be in the line to get a shot off.

His Ap scaling is huge, so don't underestimate what AP can do on him.

Tibold1 votes

{quoted}

Rakan's heal can heal 5 people. Any value on his heal can be multiplied by up to 5, with a .7 ap ratio.

Also, the main point of Rakan is to engage big fights, not to spam heals. Q is really a laning tool more than anything. The focus of Rakan are his ult, his E dashes, and his W engage.

Enchanters get better healing mechanics because they're actually based around defensive spells like healing. Rakan is a catcher. He's not concerned with healing. Also, he has a shield he can apply twice per cd.

Then why give him that Q? If he's there for massive engage, why not rather give him a disengaging tool, rather than to give a heal of 150 at Max Level? Plus, the poke is only for 250, with the lowest max health of the game at Max Level standing at 1615(Gnar ). He has to land his Q 7 times to get a kills onto a Gnar with no defensive items, without taking into account his Health Regen, His Health Growth from his Passive, or his Base MR. And it's also blocked by minions AND it's a skillshot, compared to stuff like Nami 's W.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

Then why give him that Q? If he's there for massive engage, why not rather give him a disengaging tool, rather than to give a heal of 150 at Max Level? Plus, the poke is only for 250, with the lowest max health of the game at Max Level standing at 1615(Gnar ). He has to land his Q 7 times to get a kills onto a Gnar with no defensive items, without taking into account his Health Regen, His Health Growth from his Passive, or his Base MR. And it's also blocked by minions AND it's a skillshot, compared to stuff like Nami 's W.

Rakan sucks early. Q gets him through lane.

Nymzo2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Professor Ward,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EuG1pApr,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-02-02T22:05:49.641+0000)

Its just underwhelming compared to most heals. First one i checked, nami's, heals for 3x as much at level one and can proc 2 heal instances and a damage proc** without being able to miss it**. I understand its a different champion with different things going on, but when comparing it alone, its the weakest heal in the game.

For a good reason, Rakan has the best hard engage in the entire game. Giving him a heal as strong as Nami would be dumb considaring he is not even an Enchanter in the first place. He is suppose to have a weak laning phase until you get 6.

Also you mention worst heal... I would argue Alistar's is worse.

Professor Ward2 votes

{quoted}

For a good reason, Rakan has the best hard engage in the entire game. Giving him a heal as strong as Nami would be dumb considaring he is not even an Enchanter in the first place. He is suppose to have a weak laning phase until you get 6.

Also you mention worst heal... I would argue Alistar's is worse.

Then why even give him a heal if it is near useless. I just dont get the waste of a slot.

And i could argue that alistars heal costs 0 mana, can not miss, hits 3 or more allies at a far higher rate, and doesnt take an ability slot.

Helmight1 votes

I don't know that the heal is near useless. Q max Rakan was popular back in the days of poke supports since it let you play a hard engage support into poke champs without just flat-out losing the lane. The heal isn't much, but it's enough to keep you from getting totally annihilated by Karma or Nami poke. It's part of differentiates Rakan from other all-in supports like Braum or Thresh.

Azadethe1 votes

Alistar's heal is insane. Rakan's heal isn't the worst btw; It just sucks if you no AP it. its base heal is low. It's SCALING is the highest in the game.

Pika Fox2 votes

Honestly im more infuriated with always just barely missing the damn thing as its always just slightly too short of a skillshot.

And i dont think it works well as a melee skillshot either, since half the time i engage theres enough minions around who im Wing that if i Q afterwards either my champ is inside them so it misses anyway or theyre in a bunch of minions and a minion eats it.

I end up maxing E first because shield and if i cant hit Q reliably whats the point.

Ryouhi2 votes

Personally i'd rather see his E range be normalized outside of playing with a Xayah, which would make E > W > Q > E combos much more fluent

Though outside of using Q after hitting a W i really don't use it much in lane...

Legosi Kobayashi1 votes

[deleted]

Professor Ward1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Xayah º,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EuG1pApr,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-02-02T21:49:25.560+0000)

I like that its useless, the small heal is nice in his overloaded kit. It's not there for heal or poke, its there for trading pressure ....

Youre telling me that a ranged skillshot heal is not for poking or healing, and that that is ok?

Having 3 abilities that work well isnt reason to have one that does nothing.

And please explain what trading pressure is if it doesnt include cc, damage, heal, or shield?

Dead flag blues1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Professor Ward,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EuG1pApr,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-02-02T21:54:14.747+0000)

Youre telling me that a ranged skillshot heal is not for poking or healing, and that that is ok?

Having 3 abilities that work well isnt reason to have one that does nothing.

And please explain what trading pressure is if it doesnt include cc, damage, heal, or shield?

Ezreal building AD, the W becomes purely useless (ok the AS buff, but why would a Sona need attack speed)

Ahri Baka1 votes

The bringing mana back passive should be back too Gotta love it how I engage against 5 enemies with Ult w and even when I'm close to them I automatically miss my q , because I'm used to never get much by hitting it anyway

The Bardic Gay1 votes

Personally, I think a slightly lower cooldown at rank 1 would be nice. 12 seconds is a bit much, I almost always put 2-3 points into q before maxing w or e because that way you can poke and provide a little extra sustain for your carry more often.

Part of the issue with that skill is the heal is level based rather than rank based, which implies to me that riot wants it to be a bit of a one point wonder, but at the same time the cooldown screams "oh god max me please" almost as much as his e does, but maxing it feels pretty shitty since all that goes up is base damage. Perhaps giving it a base heal bonus per rank so maxing it is viable, and then adjusting his per level base heal value so that maxing q first or second creates an appriciable difference but then tapirs off so the heal value at level 18 is the same(ish) could work?

Tactical Barrels1 votes

That overtuned mess does not need more utility.

Revali1 votes

I think the reason you pick him is his nearly undeniable engage, not his poke/healing with Q

all of these would push him twards more being a mage then a support; which isn't really what I think is the best idea as Karma already does that better and always will.

his q is more of a laning tool to help with his somewhat shaky early, but isn't guaranteed to be effective.

once you hit level 2 your engage goes up a ton, and 6 it's near unstoppable outside of a prediction. his e helps him get around with q and also helps him help more then one person generally and that in itself is powerful.

If he doublecasts his e on someone he has a 300 shield with a 1.6 ratio I think, which is Insane!

Teridax681 votes

I think one of the problems with Rakan's Q is that it completely contradicts the rest of his design: it's a ranged ability on a champion that's otherwise designed to fight only at really close distances, and a poke ability on a champion intended to deal minimal damage. Of course it's going to feel like it deals crappy damage at too short a distance when that's the only thing it can really be balanced to do. Because of this, if the ability is to receive a buff or change, I think it should be one that gives him increased utility or mobility, rather than more poking power.

Jinx Hunter1 votes

The only thing that little Cock a doodle doo needs is some love from the nerf hammer. He is legit the Yasuo of bot lane. [sg-poppy]

Cavesloth1 votes

Um Rakan a generalist, with reaaaally good engage and damn good mobility. If he had solid healing, he'd be the Lee Sin of support, too good at everything so why pick anyone else.

I mean that said I wouldn't mind a hair more range on the thing, even if it came at expense of small bit of damage so it doesn't nudge his winrate into "OMG he needs nerfs" territory.

Rathar Dashing1 votes

Maxing it first actually makes it deal a decent amount of damage, and it reduces the CD significantly, making it a more consistent heal move if you have good aim. I mostly use it to add damage and healing to my main combo, E-W-AA-Q-AA-E.

That being said, it could definitely stand a 50 or so range increase.

NekoniClaws1 votes

His Q is good zoning. Not because of damage, but the healing stops skillshot champions from having free reign against him (think of Thresh looking for a hook > he ends up giving heals to the enemy team, so is dissuaded) It doesn't feel bad to me right now tbh.

I'd also hate to see power shifted from the rest of his kit. Rakan is absolutely amazing to play the way he is <3

Rathar Dashing1 votes

Xayah, is that you?

PumpkinX1 votes

It definetly needs some love, but just adding more numbers on it wont make it more exciting to use. Rakans Q is for me the most boring looking ability in league and it could use an entirely new ability to make the champ more fun to play, like, even if the feather deals 100% max health dmg, it would still loook extremly boring.

I think something like a slap with small knock back would be cool, which could for example deal bonus dmg when used on knocked up targets. Could be used to peel or to engage and slapping champions around is always fun.

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