Ok. leona has to stop solo killing carries in back line on her one.

RankOneUganda·Dec 19, 2017·10 votes·1,692 views

this is atrocious. wtf. she literally is the tankiest support in the game. she doesn't need to dive and insta gib carries she isn't VI.

42 Comments

FooDangDec 19, 20179 votes

{quoted}

she doesn't need to dive and insta gib carries she isn't VI.

Instagib? Really?

You're going to be an overdramatic drama queen and say a traditional leona support is diving the backlines and solo instagibbing carries?

lolz gtfo.

she literally is the tankiest support in the game

Those Tank/Assassins are Literally the scariest Literal thing i've ever heard of, Literally.

PhearBunnyDec 19, 20178 votes

she has literally always been able to do this. Counterpicking her completes negates her ability to do that, and forces her to just be a peel bot.

u see Leona? Pick Thresh or Morgana to 100% negate her ability to be a diver. Or pick Vayne.

You didn't used to HAVE to counter Leona because she wasn't meta, it wasn't a big deal to not counter her. Now she is meta, you do have to counter her. So champ select with that in mind.

RuFiotDec 19, 20171 votes

Don't forget the super op rn TahmKench

THE RlVER KlNGDec 19, 20171 votes

tahm has always been able to duel carries. the difference is he doesn't take aftershock and cannot reliably get onto a carry like ali/leo/naut can, and his cc is all single-target and requires prerequisite stacks.

RalanrDec 19, 20171 votes

Him dueling carries frankly adds to why people hate fighting him and a top reason why he’s considered “unhealthy” by the people who argue as such.

THE RlVER KlNGDec 19, 20171 votes

what else can he do then? arguably braum can do similar things thanks to how his passive works with the bonus magic damage and such. braum brings a lot of things tahm doesn't, like aoe engage, a resistance buff, a more easily applied stun, etc. if tahm didn't have his passive damage and the ability to be a threat in melee range, he'd be extremely underwhelming compared to other tank supports even with the power of allied devour due to his lack of on-hand cc or other benefits.

i've never been able to duel carries if i'm behind or they are correctly peeled and itemized. he's strong if he's right on top of you, but so is every other tank who are all able to do different things. otherwise he gets kited and is relegated to a devour bot like in pro play. everything about tahm is single-taget anyway so if he's waddling around chasing your adc or mid laner chances are his adc is prime dive material, and the other 4 champs on your team are free to do other stuff like peel and engage. if you're letting tahm stack acquired taste on multiple people in a short time frame something isn't right lol.

sure it's annoying or may seem unfair to be killed by the support but it's not exactly unique to tahm anymore thanks to aftershock or the migration of mages to the botlane in early s6.

RuFiotDec 19, 20171 votes

On the up side -

I still didn't encounter a champ that can 1v1 him not even at lvls 1-3 before he buy his items, it's actually ridiculous how strong he is even from behind

INSANE ULT

Never dies, insane sustain in lane

Better than zonias every few seconds, zonias to everybody ayyy

RalanrDec 19, 20171 votes

Yes, you can make any champion seem too strong or weak by listing things in a certain way.

RuFiotDec 19, 20171 votes

So how do you suggests we should come to the conclusion if he is op or not (beside looking for win rate states since he become op)?

RalanrDec 19, 20171 votes

Literally by looking at the stats and analyzing what they mean. Which no one has done for Tahm here.

RuFiotDec 19, 20171 votes

Yeah some people prefer to go step by step together instead of throwing monologs on each other, meaning -

he stated some general downsides, low cc, can't stick, no aoe

I stated some general upsides

Now he suppose to say something in the lines of - ok, but what op is? He is adding something that secure objectives with really high probability, tahm not doing it any better than bla bla so why not picking bla

And then maybe I say ok bla doing the same but when you add that and tahm's ability to bla it bla bla

And it dynamically goes on.

I think the definite answer if he is op or nor it his win rate (results), so here we do it just for the sake of the argument, bombarding some one with a detailed opinion is just tedious for both sides imo, little step by little step and then a conclusion is the way I prefer.

RalanrDec 19, 20171 votes

The problem is that simple step by step can lead to harsh arguments that lose the point in the first place.

I’d rather the points be as clear and informative as possible from the get go.

RuFiotDec 19, 20171 votes

They don't stay harsh arguments as the conversation goes on.

That lose the point? They usually are the point (the conclusions), just not explained yet.

The problem with step by step compared to a clear all steps article is that it more hard for to know in advance if you are going to the right direction at all

THE RlVER KlNGDec 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

On the up side -

I still didn't encounter a champ that can 1v1 him not even at lvls 1-3 before he buy his items, it's actually ridiculous how strong he is even from behind

darius, trundle, fiora, yasuo, ornn, camille all work fine. lots of tanks outscale. since tahm's damage is contingent on his health, if he falls behind and can't get tanky then he can't duel as easily. he's also got no way to engage in lane unless you let him, or get hit by the single-target skillshot that is blocked by minions

INSANE ULT

in what way? you've failed to elaborate

Never dies, insane sustain in lane

every champ dies. tahm's a tank, he does it less often

Better than zonias every few seconds, zonias to everybody ayyy

he can only eat one person at a time on a fair cooldown. not 'zonias to everybody ayyy'

RuFiotDec 19, 20171 votes

The insane ult and his zonias are less 1v1 related, let's first talk about his 1v1,

What you think about the Renekton (lane bully) matchup? What about Olaf vs tahm late game 1v1 each other?

THE RlVER KlNGDec 20, 20171 votes

when i play against renekton we go about even. same with nasus. renek's whole schtick is manaless trading combos. he e's in, stuns you, q's, then e's out....over and over and over. in a one on one duel if you land your q's and cast w judiciously i don't see tahm losing easily but a decent renekton player can win lane and outscale.

olaf vs tahm lategame? as in full build at 40 minutes? olaf wins. tahm's kill capabilities hinge on the fact that he can stun you repeatedly. olaf negates said stuns, and tahm cannot even eat him for the % chunk. in lane tahm can bully olaf rather simply provided he can dodge axes but lategame i don't see him winning a 1v1.

RuFiotDec 20, 20171 votes

this is some of my gameplay experiences with tahm -

I was vs Plat 3 600k Renekton , a player that was clearly over my level by far (he did a thing that every creep he would take slightly before me and just stand on his creep so I couldn't last hit it, you never see those things in my usual matches, ever)

As usual with kench I just tried to follow him and AA him to 3 stacks and w him (thro the minion wave) so he dashes away but after the dash he far from his minion wave and I'm after his minion wave and have a clear Q.

He did exactly what you said he will do, but with the sustain from e passive + Dorian it was kinda useless and his aoe just pushing the wave into you so he even can't freez on you and you safely farm under tower, meaning no way he will zone you out or win lane (in that specific match his jngler did a bad gank and died, and I got lucky with another kill and just zoned him out)

Lvl 15 fed Olaf vs lvl 12 tahm the Olaf lost (didn't died but flashed away) he did miss some axes and I kite him with the Q a little, but he still was fed and 3 levels above me
Every lane I have I just go lvl 1 or 2 (3 is the best) for all in, they and their minions attack me and I still win, I'm playing like rtrtd in bot lane soaking stpd amounts of dmg while my adc don't bother to trade, and still we can all in with me in 30% hp

Now yes that's not a proof that his 1v1 is insane, to proof that we probably need to look at every matchup base stats and maybe even computer simulations, we need a software for that.

The games I had are like the simulation I don't suppose to zone plat 600k Renekton main, I don't suppose to win vs a fed Olaf , I don't suppose to go so aggro and getting away with that and actually winning, that suggests that I'm really really lucky, or really good with tahm, or something is wrong with his base stats, or I'm imagining stuff

HibekiDec 19, 20172 votes

I mean not true. New runes and utter MR removal made her winrate soar through the roof

PhearBunnyDec 19, 20171 votes

Yes true...Prior to runes reforged, Leona did even more damage. The difference now is, shes tankier, so she can tower dive and "go-in" more often.

Leona 2 months ago would literally 1shot you in the early game. Shes incapable of doing that right now.

I'm a Leona main.

FooDangDec 19, 20178 votes

{quoted}

Leona 2 months ago would literally 1shot you in the early game.

I want to see a video of this supposed Leona 100-0 solo deleting people in the early game. Literally, I want to see this.

Edit: and even the level 2 cheese thunderlords and ignite with hook AA>Q>AA still isnt going to 100-0 solo a champ. She can kill them (while orb walking and AA while Ignite ticks down) but she isnt deleting them. Enemy champ dependant of course.

HibekiDec 19, 20172 votes

[deleted]

PhearBunnyDec 19, 20174 votes

Leona didn't run CoC....Leona had flexibility. Leona ran CoC in situations where her only option(because of the matchup) was to be a peel bot. Leona ran Fervor when she didn't need to be a peel bot. Leona ran Thunderlords when she didn't need to be a peel bot, and the enemy team had a lot of accessable squishies.

Trust me I have about 5000 Leona games played -_-

Leona running 15AD+Thunderlords+Ignite could 100%-0% if she didn't get Exhausted, and you don't use heal. At the very least it would force you to use both your summoners if she latched onto you. But this is a high risk, high reward variation of Leona and would only be played in situations where it made sense.

Leona running 9AD+attackspeed with Fervor, wouldn't 100% to 0% you, but shed come really close, and cap out Fervor stacks instantaneously, resulting in her winning any early game trades that weren't vs hard counters.

Her new, Aftershock playstyle is something inbetween CoC Leona and Thunderlords Leona. She has more than the tankiness of CoC, and like 60% of the damage of a Thunderlords Leona would have. So overall, yes Aftershock is better than her previous playstyles overall, but i just don't enjoy it, because it eliminates the option to change your playstyle on the occasion that a burst assassin/tank thing support would be more useful than a wall of beef.

KlydeFrogDec 19, 20171 votes

its called magic pentration runes lvl3 and thinderlords.

FooDangDec 19, 20171 votes

Cool guys used AD reds. I was a cool guy.

KlydeFrogDec 19, 20171 votes

Lol I went AP leo one time and talk about insta delete on squishy. Lol think Diana or lb type burst . A ult on anyone means there dead

NekoniClawsDec 19, 20171 votes

Thresh isn't the counter people like to imagine. He can flay her E. He can't do squat about her ult. You tend to run OOM playing the flay game, and Leona can counter engage better than you.

You wanna' counter Leona it's Morgana or Sivir. Or ban her and play Blitzcrank because she's the only thing keeping him from marauding soloQ.

Troll for TrumpDec 19, 20171 votes

Counterpick is never counterplay.

Final Spark LuxDec 19, 20173 votes

She's decently tanky, but far from being the most. Naut, braum, thresh; just a few of the top of my head that are much better in that department. Not to mention, if she is somehow killing your carry by herself in the middle of your team that fast, chances are she went damage, in which case she isn't tanky. The amount of damage she would need to "Instagib carries" is so high that she'd have to sacrifice so defences, ensuring she would be melted in a teamfight

KlydeFrogDec 19, 20171 votes

lol umm no. i go tank and can do this easily there is no escape from leo so have fun thinking i went damage

Final Spark LuxDec 19, 20171 votes

Ok, if you say so.

KlydeFrogDec 19, 20171 votes

Ultimate hat with 40%cd and one of the items being rightous glory . Lol so yah your not getting away

KlydeFrogDec 19, 20173 votes

lol umm alistar is but okay.

SanKakUDec 19, 20171 votes

IMO they need to take some power away from her passive and put it back into the rest of her kit. Let her be a viable jungle or top lane or something. It's boring and lame seeing her in bottom lane IMO.