Riot is nerfing Lucian on the PBE.

xxxMadLionxxx·Nov 17, 2015·20 votes·2,989 views

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/11/1116-pbe-update.html#more

Lucian

Base attack damage lowered to 57.46 from 59.46
The Culling (R):
    Damage changed to 25/45/65 per shot from 40/50/60
    Bonus AD ratio per shot lowered to .15 from .25

I thought after the ADC rework, Lucian ult was supposed to make him standout the ADC pack?

Why is the ult being nerfed again?

EDIT: After posting this, surrender@20 said the ad ratio went from 0.25 bonus ad to 0.15 TOTAL ad. So I went on the pbe to test this and found it still DOES NOT scale with TOTAL AD. Maybe it will be fixed in today patch

51 Comments

Wind WhistlerNov 17, 201510 votes

Riot is racist confirmed gg.

YCitizenSnipsYNov 17, 20158 votes

I just saw this as well and cant even comprehend why they would do this. They nerfed him like 9 or 10 times in season 4 and hit every thing in his kit to the point he was one of the worst performing ADC's for pretty much all of season 5r. He has not even had a week of being a good pick and gets immediately nefred again.

I hate the fact that he is m;y favorite adc because its annoying how Riot has a hard on for nerfing him for being above mediocre but lets things like Vayne and Jinx remain a priority picks all the time.

HaIlMonitorNov 17, 201512 votes

He is so strong right now. He has the issue of last season of being a super lane bully and then still scaling well.

YCitizenSnipsYNov 17, 20158 votes

So have hinx and Vayne for the last several patches, where were their nerfs? Lucian went from terrible pick to being a good pick for 5 days and gets nerfed again immediately, god forbid he's allowed to be good at anything.

ElectricfiehouseNov 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

So have hinx and Vayne for the last several patches, where were their nerfs? Lucian went from terrible pick to being a good pick for 5 days and gets nerfed again immediately, god forbid he's allowed to be good at anything.

I think its because graves shut them out of the current meta I actually have not seen a good vayne or jinx since my games are decided by 20 min and end in 35 or less.

YCitizenSnipsYNov 17, 20151 votes

Graves wasn't shutting them out of the meta for most of season 5 that those two have been the top picks of the class. They dominated a whole year and both only received like one nerf a piece that didn't even accomplish anything other than to say they were nerfed. Lucian is not the worst ADC in the class for 5 DAYS and he immediately gets hammered it bs.

HaIlMonitorNov 17, 20155 votes

they nerfed both jinx and vayne in the last two patches respectively. I dont get why ANY ADC needs to be able to 100% people at level 3, scale way beyond everyone else, and have zero issues. Only adc mains want a game where ADC's are played in 4 of the 5 roles....

YCitizenSnipsYNov 17, 20154 votes

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend&roleSort=ADC

Some nerf those two got just look how terrible they are perfoming. And remind me again how long it took them to even nerf them in the first place because I don't think it was 5 days. I don't care about that last part because it doesn't address what I said and something you randomly brough up to let me know you have a biased against adcs for what ever reason. All I want is for lucian not to be immediately nerfed after a year of being a bottom tier adc just because he dared to be above mediocre for a week .

HaIlMonitorNov 17, 20152 votes

"high win rate they must be op" okay then why had Rengar, Zed, LB, all have pre 50% win rates for a ton of patches and I STILL hear people QQ about how op they are.

YCitizenSnipsYNov 17, 20151 votes

You still think win rates alone are a sign of a champions strength, really? They are op because they maintain high win rates with high pick rates. Vayne and Jinx averaged about a 30% pick rate a piece for most of season 5. This meant that not only were they the two most picked champions in the role as well as the game but that they were still the highest performing. This is actually the lowest they have both been in months.

IlyranaJun 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You still think win rates alone are a sign of a champions strength, really? They are op because they maintain high win rates with high pick rates. Vayne and Jinx averaged about a 30% pick rate a piece for most of season 5. This meant that not only were they the two most picked champions in the role as well as the game but that they were still the highest performing. This is actually the lowest they have both been in months.

you know vayne got nerfed preseason 6 and is actually pretty shit right now right? she is one of the most underpowered adc's at the moment and takes more skill to play then most xD. and im saying that as someone who dosn't even like playing vayne XD even gosu says it and hes a vayne main -.-

NostolgicSkiesNov 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

"high win rate they must be op" okay then why had Rengar, Zed, LB, all have pre 50% win rates for a ton of patches and I STILL hear people QQ about how op they are.

actually for a long time rengar was nerfed into the ground and then he was replaced by the release of khaz. riot then brought him some buffs to balance out how similar khaz and rengar were to one another and both are in a good stat some will say khaz needs some help and to an extent i agree in some cases. Zed was only complained about till ppl realized you could rush a zhonyas and negate his ult for the rest of the game. after that i believe they nerfed zhonyas in response and from there zed was fine till this patch where the new items left him behind. LB doesnt need to be nerfed cause like fizz she is a counter mage. her job is to counter your shit and blow your ass up for it. she is only good when she can capitalize on your mistakes. any other time she is to squishy and will either die or she will be forced to run away when passive procs for trying. now it is not lucian that is being nerf'd a lot of adc's are going to be cause of how unstable 5.22 was. the game needs to be rebalanced in regards to adc's. pls dont complain your being singled out and stop this. this needs to happen and a lot of the community agrees

HaIlMonitorNov 17, 20152 votes

Wrong the game is controlled by ADC mains and has been for seasons. Any time a role other then ADC is decent they QQ and control the "community".

AnidanNov 17, 20152 votes

ADC seems to be the dominant role because this game has a lot riding on their role. Siege, sustained damage, multiplicative scaling, among others. Being an equal pick to them is one thing, but being an equal pick because of blatantly unfair mechanics (Hi, Morde!) is entirely different.

You can propose things to take their place, but they should also preferably be replaced by something that can do those same things (strong siege potential, high sustained dps (preferably multiplicative to bust tanky champions later in the game)). There are champions that can do that, like Azir and Cass, but they usually lack in other regards to ADCs, such as badly needing levels, which an ADC often doesn't need as much as they need gold. Since they have strong lategames due to multiplicative scaling, strong siege potential, the power to bust through tanks (thanks to the multiplicative scaling) and sustained damage, they're going to be a go-to pick for the game until someone comes up with a viable alternative that isn't viable due to something broken in concept.

Also, it sounds like you subscribe to the ADC Conspiracy. Does that come with a free tinfoil hat or do you guys have to make it yourself?

ElectricfiehouseNov 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend&roleSort=ADC

Some nerf those two got just look how terrible they are perfoming. And remind me again how long it took them to even nerf them in the first place because I don't think it was 5 days. I don't care about that last part because it doesn't address what I said and something you randomly brough up to let me know you have a biased against adcs for what ever reason. All I want is for lucian not to be immediately nerfed after a year of being a bottom tier adc just because he dared to be above mediocre for a week .

Okay well you are right about what you said ,but jinx/vayne wasn't broken for season 5. On the stronger side of adc's yes but nothing opressive. On the other hand lucian was a MONSTER for season 4 and riot wanted to make sure that other adcs had a chance. If jinx/vayne were so strong that they were the best adc hands down and must be pick/ban for a long time riot would kill them for a while for sure. An example of this are the assassins pick/ban s3 and are killed in s5. I dont think this is the right mentality for a game ,but this is what is happening.

YCitizenSnipsYNov 17, 20152 votes

Vayne and jinx weren't broken in season 5? Did we play the same game? They were two of the most picked champions over all for a reason.

Jinx and Vayne have just as strong of an early game as Lucian but scale even harder late, you don't call that oppressive.

Jinx and Vayne were the best ADC's hands down and were pick/ban in solo que as well as competitive all season. Its like you didn't even play in season 5, those two have basically been the face of bot lane and were every bit as strong in season 5 as Lucian was in season 4. Difference is they didn't get there kits destroyed while Lucian did.

Zair UmbrasNov 17, 20153 votes

They were the two most picked because the other ADC's had nothing to compete with. Recent patch fixed the other ADC's while slightly nerfing the early games of Jinx and Vayne (Though Vayne lost about 20 AD at level 18).

Being the highest pick champ doesn't mean they're dominating or the best champ in the game, it means they do their job better or their kits are more preferable. Right now, Cait is at 47% win rate, but she's a 30% pick rate, up where Jinx used to be.

YCitizenSnipsYNov 18, 20151 votes

"Being the highest picked champ doesn't mean they're dominating." Thats exactly what it means, You know, why pick anyone else when you could pick them and win. Also you bring up Cait's huge pick rate and low win rate well both JInx and Vayne had the same pick rates of over 30% but had 53-54% win rates. They were the most picked champions in the game and had some of the highest win rates as well. They not only were picked more than anybody but while being picked more they performed better than anybody too, that is the definition of Domination.

ElegantDogeNov 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Vayne and jinx weren't broken in season 5? Did we play the same game? They were two of the most picked champions over all for a reason.

Jinx and Vayne have just as strong of an early game as Lucian but scale even harder late, you don't call that oppressive.

Jinx and Vayne were the best ADC's hands down and were pick/ban in solo que as well as competitive all season. Its like you didn't even play in season 5, those two have basically been the face of bot lane and were every bit as strong in season 5 as Lucian was in season 4. Difference is they didn't get there kits destroyed while Lucian did.

Do you EVEN KNOW what broken means ?

qetzelNov 17, 20151 votes

Everything changes during the preseason. At the time, the nerfs they received were significant. The game has changed sine then. By the way. Take a look at the playerbase experience of both Jinx and Vayne. Given those graphs it makes sense that their average win rate is slightly higher.

KONO RUBICK DANov 17, 20153 votes

{quoted}

they nerfed both jinx and vayne in the last two patches respectively. I dont get why ANY ADC needs to be able to 100% people at level 3, scale way beyond everyone else, and have zero issues. Only adc mains want a game where ADC's are played in 4 of the 5 roles....

that's why their win rate didn't move by a finger

Phoenix Kotori Nov 17, 20151 votes

"3 ad" nerfed

Maximum MordeNov 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I just saw this as well and cant even comprehend why they would do this.

They want him to build Steraks+Triforce.

XeroKimoNov 17, 20157 votes

Calm down folks, it was just a typo in the description for pbe, in reality it scales off 0.15 TOTAL AD over 0.25 BONUS ad, Rioter confirmed it moobeat fixed it in S@20

Bard in a DiaperNov 17, 20155 votes

uhh have you played vs him? hes absolutely insane right now. He can 100-0 you easily with just his ult at lvl 6. Once he gets essence reaver his E is on like no cooldown.

RisenDarkKnightNov 17, 20153 votes

Yeah but compare him to Graves and Miss Fortune who are more poplular with 3% higher winrates. He's 3rd best marksman, but he got nerfed harder than those two.

TotalJerkNov 17, 20151 votes

Looking at the other nerfs, they all seem to be about the same in magnitude.

Zair UmbrasNov 17, 20151 votes

Cait is at 30%, Vayne at 23%, Graves at 20%, and Lucian at 19.6%. He's .4% less than Graves pickrates wise and MF is only at 10% pick rate, which is nearly 10% less than Lucian, so she doesn't have a higher pick rate. MF and Graves have higher win rates, sure, but so does Trist and Vayne.

On top of that, Cait is the most popular ADC right now and she's at 47% win rate. lol.

ElectricfiehouseNov 17, 20153 votes

Lucian ult is pretty strong right now. I feel like this nerf is overkill but something probably needs to be done. I managed to shred a full tank braum ( no unbreakable) from 75% to around 30%. Also since I'm pretty sure lucian counters graves he is strong is seems stronger than he actually is. Also what is this rage blade lucian?

WeatheredNov 17, 20152 votes

Well if you took an entire Lucian ult to the face, you deserve to be at 30% health or lower. The whole point of it is a long multi hit beam ability. Lots of damage, but hard to control on your opponent.

xxxMadLionxxxNov 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Well if you took an entire Lucian ult to the face, you deserve to be at 30% health or lower. The whole point of it is a long multi hit beam ability. Lots of damage, but hard to control on your opponent.

Agreed

runedaraNov 17, 20153 votes

His ult has way more power than it used to have.

BuppieNov 17, 20151 votes

okay? He was always in a lower spot than the rest of the adc's after the "E" changes

Irelia BotNov 17, 20152 votes

becasue rageblade lucian OP.

MohawkBirdNov 17, 20152 votes

I honestly don't get it. Nothing about him was even OP (aside from most of the class being OP as a whole), and his ultimate finally became useful damage wise and it immediately loses it's spark. It's just going to be back to the useless pre patch 5.22 ult it was. Time to start using it for wave clear again.

NostolgicSkiesNov 17, 20152 votes

i believe the nerf was not that it did a lot of dmg but that with his easy access to CDr now with no real dmg sacrafice for it he was doing overall to much dmg ccause of its faster rate due to max cdr from item 3508 . less dmg on ult, but new items say more ult up time.

MLDzXnRRRNov 17, 20152 votes

AD ratio is total AD, not bonus.

ElectricfiehouseNov 17, 20151 votes

If your not seeing the power I usually go essence reaver into shiv into triforce. This seems like it works out great.

BeatzBoyFTWNov 17, 20151 votes

I really really really hope their reason for that Lucian nerf isn't something like "ITS BCZ HE CAN DASH TONS OF TIMES HURR DURR DURR"

Like, as if Kalista isn't worse than this, or Graves who only needs like 1-2 close shots to refresh his dash cooldown.

NostolgicSkiesNov 17, 20151 votes

right now everyone has agreed that adc's need to go down a little with the 5.22 patch release and now riot is knocking adc's down to be more im balance with the new items and your complaining. . .this is why riot keeps messing things up, you guys keep changing your mind on wtf u want them to do to fix the problems. Stop it. . .just STOP IT!

Dominick DestineNov 17, 20151 votes

His ult is absurdly powerful right now.

Like retardedly powerful... 100-0 people powerful.

Chicken4dinnerNov 17, 20151 votes

Only small though, as it says on the pbe post Lucian's ult scales to total AD now. While not a huge difference it actually evens out late game.

lolipopevelynnNov 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/11/1116-pbe-update.html#more

Lucian
Base attack damage lowered to 57.46 from 59.46
The Culling (R):
    Damage changed to 25/45/65 per shot from 40/50/60
    Bonus AD ratio per shot lowered to .15 from .25
I thought after the ADC rework, Lucian ult was supposed to make him standout the ADC pack?

Why is the ult being nerfed again?

mean while, MissFortune is having a field day with her lucian ult 2.0

Silents429Nov 17, 20151 votes

Because it's really friggin strong and shoots a hell of a lot more projectiles then before, the nerf is minor and I think perfectly reasonable.

BattalionNov 17, 20151 votes

They aren't nerfing as much as making him scale harder late game. I think they're trying to make a few late game DPS's though that 25 from 40 is a drop for sure. A conservative 30-35 would be much better.