All AD teams work because AD champions have the same amount of CC as tanks

HateDaddy··4 votes·837 views

When you look at all AD teams, you see some common champions in these rotations:

Riven XinZhao Yasuo Vi Qiyana Kayn Irelia JarvanIV Urgot Aatrox

This does not include tanks like Poppy and Sion that have AD scaling, so they can actually build AD/bruiser and still be incredibly tanky and disruptive.

And yet, much of the CC these champions dish out can't even be mitigated because they are knock-ups or some form of displacement, so in a lot of ways they're even better thank tanks because their CC can't be reduced. And don't worry, league of CDR lets these champions get access to 40% fairly easily so they can spam CC just as frequently as tanks can spam CC. On top of that, these champions range from assassins to bruisers, so their damage is far superior to that of tanks. They have back-line access, escapes, virtually no resources, and in some cases they can be invulnerable or close to it.

Why would I play tanks when these champions exist? Most of the champions I listed aren't even overpowered, but they are certainly strong. As such, Riot has two choices to fix this dynamic:

Nerf all of these champions into the ground so nobody plays them, thus tanks rise;

OR

Buff tanks in some way that they can actually compete with these champions.

Here is the problem with that: the only things tanks theoretically have over these AD champions is durability, but that itself is questionable. Armor shred exists in item 3071, and obviously both last whisper items exist. In addition, Conq gives access to true damage so that eventually tankiness will be outscaled if it does not snowball. I mentioned this in another thread: tank items are not good. Tank keystone diversity does not exist. Offense is too heavily favored. So with this in mind, tanks do not really do very well in this department because their durability gets cut down pretty quickly. Moreover, items like item 3053 item 3812 and item 3026 exist, which eliminate the possibility of any of these AD champions from being bursted down. They effectively have better durability now on top of this.

The only way riot can resurrect tanks is to give them the ability to just kill these champions on their own. If that happens, then suddenly tanks have a place: they can dominate these champions and not allow them to scale. This creates unhealthy tank metas, and frankly though I am repulsed by the current game in terms of damage, I'm not really looking to go back to those ridiculous tank metas either. This isn't a problem with bruisers or assassins being overpowered either, not are their items busted: they're all simply quite good. The real problem is tanks don't have items or keystones, and tanks don't have a place because these champions also have a ton of CC to give them the same capacity as tanks. So even if you buff tanks items and keystones, I'm not sure it would be enough.

Riot, at some point you need to look into the ridiculous amount of CC you've granted in this game. Many of these champions simply should not be having the CC they have, and if you want them to have access to some CC that is fine. But they need to lose spammability of it. And you cannot fix this problem by simply buffing tenacity: because most of these champions ignore tenacity. Introducing an item into the game that reduces the effectiveness of knock-ups might work, but that really is just putting a band-aid on a wound that requires surgery. You have to, at some point, look back and realize this dynamic cannot exist. Otherwise you run into situations where tanks are obsolete because they really do not bring anything to the table. I would not feel so strongly about this if you were willing to allow tanks to have GODLIKE durability, giving them a niche. However, that will not happen. You like offense too much. What I'm suggesting won't happen either, but that is exactly why many players that play tanks will grow more frustrated with the game. I don't even play tanks and I'm frustrated.

To sum it up, these champions aren't even overpowered but this shit is dumb.

13 Comments

Eedat9 votes

yeah Annie AP Ahri has AurelionSol no Azir CC Cassiopeia at Elise allFiddlesticks

Why Fizz do Galio AD Gragas champs Heimerdinger get Kennen all Leblanc the Mordekaiser CC?

Really Lissandra stupid Lux decision Malzahar if Morgana you Neeko ask Orianna me.

They Zoe need Veigar to Zyra fix Zilean this Syndra now

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

yeah Annie AP Ahri has AurelionSol no Azir CC Cassiopeia at Elise allFiddlesticks

Why Fizz do Galio AD Gragas champs Heimerdinger get Kennen all Leblanc the Mordekaiser CC?

Really Lissandra stupid Lux decision Malzahar if Morgana you Neeko ask Orianna me.

They Zoe need Veigar to Zyra fix Zilean this Syndra now

The difference is that these champions have CC that can be reduced in most cases, and tenacity is tied to magic resistance. So when you build tenacity against these champions, it is significantly more effective and efficient. When you build tenacity against the champions I mentioned, it is neither of these things. AP champions are dumb for a lot of reasons, but this isn't really one of them.

DuskDaUmbreon5 votes

A large amount of the ones he listed also have knockups tho?

"Aye lemme just reduce Azir's CC with tenacity"

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

A large amount of the ones he listed also have knockups tho?

"Aye lemme just reduce Azir's CC with tenacity"

Most of them don’t.

DuskDaUmbreon3 votes

Really? Asol, Azir, Fizz, Galio, Gragas, Morde, Orianna, Zyra and Syndra aren't a large amount of champions?

There are more AP champs with knockups than you listed for AD ones lmao.

HateDaddy1 votes

{quoted}

Really? Asol, Azir, Fizz, Galio, Gragas, Morde, Orianna, Zyra and Syndra aren't a large amount of champions?

There are more AP champs with knockups than you listed for AD ones lmao.

Still vastly in the minority

PermaJinxed1 votes

{quoted}

Really? Asol, Azir, Fizz, Galio, Gragas, Morde, Orianna, Zyra and Syndra aren't a large amount of champions?

There are more AP champs with knockups than you listed for AD ones lmao.

In that list of ap champions there were 9 unmitigatable ccs, in the smaller list of ad champs, there was 11.....

HP Crookshanks1 votes

item 3111 hard counters these champions but why build item 3111 instead of item 3047 against a full AD team?

DuskDaUmbreon4 votes

...No?

They don't even actually work unless you're dumb against them lmao. Full physical or full magic comps fail because you just stack armor or MR against them. Full AD just has a few more penetration options.

Full tanks might struggle against full AD, but when it's a balanced comp against full AD they win. Why? Because everyone can get a decent amount of armor. ADC can run tabis and GA, mage can run tabis and Zhonya's...There's a lot of stuff to get that squishies might not normally dip into that it allows them to get.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

...No?

They don't even actually work unless you're dumb against them lmao. Full physical or full magic comps fail because you just stack armor or MR against them. Full AD just has a few more penetration options.

Full tanks might struggle against full AD, but when it's a balanced comp against full AD they win. Why? Because everyone can get a decent amount of armor. ADC can run tabis and GA, mage can run tabis and Zhonya's...There's a lot of stuff to get that squishies might not normally dip into that it allows them to get.

Not really true anymore. Full AD works because there’s tons of options to bypass armor. I agree that a balanced team comp should have the advantage, but that’s a really arbitrary thing at this point. For the record, I don’t really care about that one way or another.

HP Crookshanks3 votes

Full AD teams are strong because of the uselessness of armor and all of the team members can benefit from item 3071 .

Pika Fox3 votes

They have nowhere near the CC tanks have. Most are single target, where as tanks have longer range AND AoE generally.

boricCentaur11 votes

Ummm no full ad teams work because BASICALLY EVERY CARRY IS AD like adc is what a lot of people call the role and there are so little apcs in the game that's why full ap teams DON'T WORK. Also there are less ap tops and jgs making less likely for them to get picked.

Like WE HAVE HAD FULL AP TEAMS BE META BEFORE AND WE KNOW THE REASONS and it has NOTHING to do with cc or anything. And the reason is APCS ARE GOOD DURING THOSE TIMES.

Like you FUCKING don't even know anything about the problem there are basically no ap bruisers(I think there are like 3 right now) and basically no apcs(heim and idk) there are very little ap junglers (I think like 3 to 4 maybe less)

That is the problem THERE IS NO DIVERSITY IN AP CHAMPIONS YOU BASICALLY HAVE MAGE AND ASSASSIN that's it.

To fix the problem riot needs to create more ap champions that are diverse. But they just changed sylas to be more of a mid and nerfed swain's range SOOOOOOOO that's not happening lol.

Also you can easily go full ap right now mord top,elise jg,a ap mid, Kai'Sa apc, and idk yuumi

Look I just found a full ap team of champions that are good right now and it took me like less then 2 seconds to think of.

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