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Chilling and Challenging Smite need to go the way of DFG

Remlap1223··1 votes·900 views

Before you automatically assume I'm salty after a loss from getting smited all the time, I'm not, I'm simply making an objective analysis why these smite abilities are impossible to keep from being abused.

Rito, I appreciate you trying to make the jungle more interesting, and the satisfaction of smiting Teemo is just so awesome, but as preseason and now have shown, they aren't ever going to be balanced. In the same way that DFG was removed because you had to balance entire champion's kits around one single item, now you have to from an items and summoner spells. People in the past made comparisons to flash, but flash has not fundamentally broken kits like the new Smite has (cough Warwick and LeeSin cough) I like the idea, thematically, of a smiting an enemy champion, but its current iterations are broken. First it was smitewick top lane, now it's Smitevana, Dr. Smitemo and Susan. Challenging smite has proven time and time again to be too easily abused by tanky top laners to pretty much guarantee no chance of trading fairly. Chilling smite was orignially intended to give junglers who struggled with ganks a much needed boost, but all it did was make the strong ones stronger and harder to disenage.

I think that there should be a "big three" of smite spells:

  • item 3713 Heavy Smite, for clearing jungle camps.
  • item 3711 Swift Smite, for stealing jungle camps.
  • item 3715 Avenging Smite, for ganking.

Those aren't the actual names, just categories that they should be in. Ranger's is perfectly balanced, so is Poacher's, it just lacks fun counterjungling mechanics. Honestly, I think that the best way to integrate a ganking smite is to make it AOE like Ranger's, but a skillshot. Now I know this sounds bad, but I think it's a better alternative than giving junglers a instant targeted nuke spell at no cost every minute. Adding a delay on champions is another idea. Is there anyone that thinks the same way? Regardless of what you think of my ideas, am I truly alone in thinking that the champion smite items are too easily abused?

12 Comments

BluePolarizer3 votes

You lack the mechanics and knowledge to make informed decisions about balance.

There should be no skillshot smite. Either make it so nobody gets champ targetted smite or everyone gets it.

Remlap12231 votes

Nice Ad Hominem attack there bruh. Don't you have anything better to do than go on random threads and tell people how bronze they are? If you're going to say my argument is bad, give me evidence, instead of just going "hurr durr ur bronze so ur opinion doesn't matter gg get gud scrub".

BluePolarizer5 votes

It is not ad hominem. Alot of the so called "balance problems" can be solved by learning the game. The things that look insanely broken in bronze are easy to deal with in gold, the things that look insanely broken in gold are a joke to solve in diamond, and diamonds still are scrubs compared to LCS. If you have ever watched an LCS coach teach a diamond, they point out 50+ mistakes of the diamond in a 30 minute game.

The game should not be balanced for low elo, because then it would be unbalanced for high elo, and the high elo problems cannot be solved by simply getting better, they'd be actual problems.

Remlap12231 votes

Right now, all I'm hearing is "I'M GOLD KNEEL BEFORE ME BRONZE PEASANT". You have brought up zero counterpoints to why it's a "L2P" issue rather than a balance issue. The fact that a summoner spell that's specifically made for junglers is being used top lane by tanks to make themselves essentially invincible whilst dealing true damage is a problem. There isn't counterplay for that.

As for me, this is going to be the last comment I reply to until you give me REAL OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE that it's a "L2P" issue rather than a balance issue. This isn't Tumblr. You don't get to say that I don't fit the demographic to be discussing these issues, and therefore my opinion doesn't matter.

BluePolarizer3 votes

sure. the way to play around top lane smite is by taking ignite and abusing their lack of either a combat summoner or flash early game with a lane bully and/or jungler ganks, especially smite Nasus, smite Mundo and other immobile tanks that have no escapes. Shyvana is mobile enough to take smite TP so that may be the new standard way of playing her, which isn't wrong if a few champs top lane are better off being flashless. If you are good enough, you can snowball so hard that cinderhulk doesn't even matter. The strategy has clear trade-offs and

Remlap12231 votes

So, let me get this straight. You honestly believe that ignite, a summoner spell with flat true damage and heal reduction, can overtake a sustain heavy tank that gets not only 25% bonus health from items, but a 20% damage reduction from your auto attacks for six seconds? By the time you hit level 18, you'd be lucky to knock of the bonus health off of cinderhulk, let alone getting them low enough to kill them with it. You're also implying that they have to take another summoner spell other than flash after they take smite. Smitewick went flash smite top, so does Nasus and Mundo. And there's a reason why they don't have escapes, and that's because they're fucking tanks. They're supposed to be able to take hits, that's not the issue here. The issue is that once they smite you, your damage output takes a significant dropoff, and then they're able to do exponentially increased true damage to you. Unless you have a dash or flash, chances are you aren't going to be able to escape, especially if they have hard crowd control. Luckily it appears that the ones that have that capability aren't viable smite top laning. If that happens, top lane diversity is fucked.

This isn't like ignite, which is hella powerful but has a huge cooldown time to balance it, Smite has the charge time of an average ultimate in this game, and because of the changes, it holds two charges, so Susan can go from one champion to another in relatively little time. A 15 second cooldown for something as powerful as that with no cost attached to it outside of cooldowns is extremely powerful. DFG had the exact same issue because you essentially gave the holding champion a second ultimate, which is why it was removed from the game.

Yeah, at the start of the game, they don't have a combat summoner spell. But Skirmisher's Sabre costs 450 gold. Do you know what else costs 450 gold or less? The introductory items: longswords, gloves, boots, daggers, amplifying tomes. Whereas those items are relatively lackluster besides the boots, Skirmisher's Sabre is extremely powerful. It is way too cost effective, and has way too much item synergy once cinderhulk is placed on it. There's a reason why junglers were supposed to be the only ones that get these items, because they're supposed to help them clear and gank, not to give top lane tanks a point and click instant win trade key.

BluePolarizer5 votes

you don't start with 900 gold and you definitely don't start the game with cinderhulk. Last I remember, you still have to farm it and until you do, you have no 2nd summoner spell. 900 gold is a long time (because I assume you aren't dumb enough to start machete in lane), alot can happen between minion spawn and when you get that gold. Flash/smite is suboptimal because if you get forced out of lane, you are walking back, whereas the enemy laner who took ignite/flash has a combat summoner to actually force you out/kill you or ignite/TP to kill you, buy, then TP back to lane to push a wave into your tower.

Again, you need to understand the things that you can do to counter these strategies and learn the game.

Elk Whisperer1 votes

{quoted}

It is not ad hominem. Alot of the so called "balance problems" can be solved by learning the game. The things that look insanely broken in bronze are easy to deal with in gold, the things that look insanely broken in gold are a joke to solve in diamond, and diamonds still are scrubs compared to LCS. If you have ever watched an LCS coach teach a diamond, they point out 50+ mistakes of the diamond in a 30 minute game.

The game should not be balanced for low elo, because then it would be unbalanced for high elo, and the high elo problems cannot be solved by simply getting better, they'd be actual problems.

Actually yes it should

Have you seen the tank meta today? It's bullshit.

And unbalanced for high elo? HIGH ELO IS BALANCED AROUND IMBALANCE BECAUSE EVERYONE ONLY PLAYS BROKEN SHIT

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

The game's balance is heavily focused on the better players, because that is the optimal point of balance. Better players make fewer mistakes, which means that the champions and abilities are being used at or near full potential power.

That said, Riot often makes balance changes that "separate good from great" as they often say. What that actually means is that they're nerfing for the sake of lower ELO players. The nerf generally has next to no effect on the actually good players, but it has more effect on the lower end of the spectrum.

And I can't name a single time where people weren't bitching about whatever was popular in Ranked, calling it broken shit because it's popular in high ELO. Only on very rare occasions was it actually true, and it was things like release Xin Zhao, release Vayne, release Leblanc...

windwolf7771 votes

Sooooo, what exactly is your problem with it? The fact it gives versatility to junglers? The fact that you can smite champions?

Remlap12231 votes

Did you read what I said? I thought I made myself pretty clear. Chilling brings too much utility on too low of a cooldown, and Skirmisher's is being used by top laners to guarantee favorable trades. I don't have an issue with Smiting champions, I have an issue with Smite having too much utility for too little of a cost, and I have an issue with top laners abusing it for an instant trade win button with no counterplay.

IcyPepper1 votes

While we're at it, let's make ignite a skillshot. And barrier. And teleport. And ghost. And barrier. And heal. And exhaust. And revi—

cries

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