"Kog'maw is a late game adc that has a weak early game"

Sayonara Shabi··89 votes·7,337 views

outscales every adc in the game with a recurve bow

105 Comments

Ahristocats72 votes

"kog'maw is a squishy adc"

builds frozen mallet witsend QSS and has 110 mr 3k hp while still outdamaging any adc

fun :^)

Dasdi9622 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EqfX5kTl,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-01-27T17:43:19.679+0000)

"kog'maw is a squishy adc"

builds frozen mallet witsend QSS and has 110 mr 3k hp while still outdamaging any adc

fun :^)

Don’t forget he is always paired with a lulu or janna that gives 500+ shields so he has 3.5k hp. With redemption heal and a tank building lockt that is basically 5k hp.

Ahristocats27 votes

i know

kog is bullshit rn

an adc with 700 range abusing bruiser items not building last whisper or any penetration and melting everyone

Craft Zeppelin55 votes

Balls, you guys got it whole wrong. "Kog'maw spikes with a item."

"which is not even his." item 3504 +Lulu

Get yer facts right, check frigging mate.

TPA Jason1232 votes

Don't forget, Locket , Sheilds , Heals : D

KorZod14 votes

As a Kog main for three years, there's actually pretty decent itemization to work against him right now (Certainly better than pre-last midseason). The Tabi/Adaptive helm combo is really hard for him to play against, pair that with an anti-attackspeed item like Thornmail or FH and it does quite gut his damage. Or just don't let him get to 6 items, and while he does have a nice lvl 1 and 2 due to QW, he's weak in the rest in the rest of the early-mid game. While he seems scary, there's a few rules most people seem not to get.

If he rushes guinsoos/Wits end, he's doing little to no AD. Don't bother rushing Knights Vow or Sunfire into that. Until he gets runaans/botrk, he still has very little scaling AD damage.

The amount of time I've seen people rush armor into kog and then complain about dying is ridiculous, especially when I'm rushing wits end/guinsoos.

EssenceOfPoo7 votes

{quoted}

As a Kog main for three years, there's actually pretty decent itemization to work against him right now (Certainly better than pre-last midseason). The Tabi/Adaptive helm combo is really hard for him to play against, pair that with an anti-attackspeed item like Thornmail or FH and it does quite gut his damage. Or just don't let him get to 6 items, and while he does have a nice lvl 1 and 2 due to QW, he's weak in the rest in the rest of the early-mid game. While he seems scary, there's a few rules most people seem not to get.

If he rushes guinsoos/Wits end, he's doing little to no AD. Don't bother rushing Knights Vow or Sunfire into that. Until he gets runaans/botrk, he still has very little scaling AD damage.

The amount of time I've seen people rush armor into kog and then complain about dying is ridiculous, especially when I'm rushing wits end/guinsoos.

lol watching you getting downvoted is like watching jesus coming to earth to help people but ended up getting crucified.

"what!? an advice that is actually sound!? bring out your pitchfork, boys. lets crucify him!"

"what? counter-argue him? test out his advice? fk that!"

http://www.51allout.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/simpsons-villagers-pitchfork-torches.jpeg

Tèrminus13 votes

Q: Caustic Spittle

  • Cost increased to 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 / 60 Mana.
  • Cooldown reduced to 8 / 7.5 / 7 / 6.5 / 6 seconds.
  • Resistance reduction lowered to 20% at all ranks.

W: Bio-Arcane Barrage

  • Cooldown now starts on expiry instead of on cast.
  • Cooldown reduced to 16 / 15.5 / 15 / 14.5 / 14 seconds.
  • Mana cost removed.
  • Duration reduced to 6 seconds.
  • Now deals % current HP instead of % max HP.
  • NEW: Damaging an enemy champion with Caustic Spittle or Living Artillery reduces Bio-Arcane Barrage's cooldown by 1 second.

E: Void Ooze

  • AP ratio increased to 70%.

R: Living Artillery

  • AP ratio increased to 30%.

/-/-/

I kinda liked the old Trinity Force Kog that weaved R casts into his autos. The concept of weaving Living Artillery casts into his combat pattern seems like it's worth revisiting.

Tails901612 votes

Cooldown now starts on expiry instead of on cast.

Are you telling one of the most bullshit abilities in the game that has synergy too strong with item 3124 has it's cooldown START ON-CAST?

https://i.imgur.com/ERUHAEn.gif[/img]

Tèrminus10 votes

{quoted}

Are you telling one of the most bullshit abilities in the game that has synergy too strong with item 3124 has it's cooldown START ON-CAST?

https://i.imgur.com/ERUHAEn.gif[/img]

It's current cooldown is also 17 seconds, on a champion who doesn't really build any CDR. With its currently 8 second duration, that gives it an effective down-time of 9 seconds before CDR.

PB4UAME2 votes

And, for the sake of argument, 45% cdr makes it have a roughly 1 second cooldown.

Tèrminus8 votes

{quoted}

And, for the sake of argument, 45% cdr makes it have a roughly 1 second cooldown.

Who even builds CDR on Kog, though, let alone 40-45% of it?

saltran10 votes

Okay as someone who plays adc but not Kog Maw I can say that you have never played in lane against Kog or you are just lying. You can abuse him pretty easy on early now that the Relic meta in adcs is gone. But the circlejerk must continue.

Best Kog NA4 votes

Welcome to the boards

TylerBrah6 votes

Is this the latest hot topic champion that the community is now going to parrot as being OP now that Vayne got nerfed even though nobody had ANY issues with the champion a few days ago?

Oh boy!

GayFluffyUnicorn8 votes

People have an issue with kog for a long time. Low elo just needs a long time to catch up.

Daunt3 votes

It's more that low elo has issues. Is it not strange how there are not high elo players making posts like this? Of course there are exceptions, some people just like to complain. While i do agree that over the years Kog changed to fit into almost any team comp, it's still funny to see people shitposting while being completely clueless about the matter.

NodirjonSattarov5 votes

onhit is outscaled by crit lets be real. only thing keeping him relevant are his protector supports like janna and lulu.

Best Kog NA3 votes

This ^

Kog'Maw doesn't have any self peel other than his 52% slow on his E when you max it.

Iffy Jarl4 votes

Think you meant to put this in memes and games

Ahri Baka4 votes

Once I played support , my KogMaw adc ran mid at the 10th minute without me , he did a god damned Quadra kill. without his Lulu

DuskDaUmbreon3 votes

Dude. How much was bot inting?

You'd have to have at least a full two items to actually pull that off.

Ahri Baka1 votes

I still have the replay The enemies had no assassins , so he perma kited them and literally got a Quadra kill , I can't understand why should I be downvoted for this tho

EssenceOfPoo7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hikari Sakata,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EqfX5kTl,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2018-01-28T00:34:19.112+0000)

I still have the replay The enemies had no assassins , so he perma kited them and literally got a Quadra kill , I can't understand why should I be downvoted for this tho

https://i.imgur.com/LlbpGHq.jpg

Sergmeista4 votes

HES OVERPOWERED AS SHIT AND NEEDS TO BE DELETED FROM THE GAME.

NickMP3 votes

Kog’Maw main with 426K mastery here, though most of that comes from Jungling or playing him as a Tank in top lane though.

Void Doggo is pretty strong now, if he does need nerfed I’d prefer a hit to his base stats then any mechanical changes.

Kog’Maw as a Marksman can be put in the same group of Marksmen as Twitch/Vayne/Tristana, with his niche compared to them being that he comes “online” quickly, but has a less stable super late game due to not having self peel or stealth to safely “wait in the wings” before surprising everybody.

One of the best things you can do against a Kog’Maw is establish vision control and track him and his team, and catch people out, it doesn’t have to be Kog’Maw, anybody you take out is somebody who could peel for Kog’Maw or distract from him by being a damage threat in their own right, Kog’Maws teamfight scales directly with how many teammates are nearby.

As for actually taking out Kog’Maw in a fight its fairly standard, hit him with a CC and then dogpile him before moving on, Vi or Jarven VI are always terrifying to fight as Kog for their range on engaging.

chipndip12 votes

The issue is how do you change him? They tried reworking him before and had to revert most of it.

Ahristocats25 votes

remove Q % armor/mr shred

W magical damage--->physical damage

chipndip13 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EqfX5kTl,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-01-27T18:13:16.673+0000)

remove Q % armor/mr shred

W magical damage--->physical damage

Decent ideas, but probs can't do both of those. The Q one would be cool to try so he doesn't just turn on W and win trades on near auto-pilot.

Ahristocats12 votes

true

you can't have kog building last whisper like everyone, and build a squishy build like everyone he has to abuse on hit effect <removed by moderation> and become tanky as fuck from 700 range

chipndip112 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EqfX5kTl,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-27T18:38:57.222+0000)

true

you can't have kog building last whisper like everyone, and build a squishy build like everyone he has to abuse on hit effect <removed by moderation> and become tanky as fuck from 700 range

Him building on-hit isn't the problem. Him hitting really hard in early trades is. Tackling his armor/mr shred is a solid way to fix this without removing an element of what makes Kog unique to other marksmen.

Like, there's already very little that separates one marksman from the other. Lets not get super excited to make them even more similar to themselves.

Ahristocats9 votes

a 700 range hard to kill target that shreds everyone while not having any way to dodge its DPS seems a problem to me

him building onhit IS a problem

chipndip12 votes

And what would removing his free armor/mr shred do?

Reduce his ability to shred everyone. ESPECIALLY early.

Ahristocats5 votes

force him to build last whisper items to make him squishy

Chromatic Eagle2 votes

But then we go back to marksmen being too similar.

Ahristocats4 votes

marksmen building the same was never an issue to me

marksmen's playstyle being similar however was an issue, it's still an issue in SOME cases

no to toxic3 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EqfX5kTl,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-27T19:55:23.954+0000)

not having any way dodge its DPS seems a problem to me

But that can be applied to any ADC making your argument seem stupid

Ahristocats2 votes

if you cut out half of my reply then your own argument seem stupid

if you take in consideration what i said just before what you quotted suddenly a problem appears

Karfuss1 votes

And would you have a problem with Caitlyn, Jinx, Tristana and Rapidfire Cannon?

Doing high damage from long ranges, without being able to dodge, is pretty standard and trademark for an ADC. If your problem with Kog is his range and no way to avoid his damage, then you have a problem with every ADC ever.

Him building bruiser and being otherwise harder to kill, while still doing high damage, is a valid argument. Having a problem with him doing unavoidable damage from range isn't. This isn't Smite.

Ahristocats4 votes

firecannon does not give you bonus range on every autoattack

if kog can sit from 700 range for 8 seconds in a teamfight that's not the same considering that he can kill any target in 2 sec

and firecannon users are not tanky unlike kog'maw

no to toxic2 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EqfX5kTl,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-28T06:14:35.451+0000)

firecannon does not give you bonus range on every autoattack

if twitch can sit from 850 range for 5seconds in a teamfight that's not the same considering that he can kill any target in 2 sec

and firecannon users are not invisible for 15 seconds unlike twitch

firecannon does not give you bonus range on every autoattack

if Jinx can sit from 700 range for 10 mana every auto in a teamfight that's not the same considering that "she" can kill any target in 2 sec

and firecannon users are not "female" unlike kog'maws mom

firecannon does not give you bonus range on every autoattack

if caitlyn can sit from 650 range for forever in a teamfight that's not the same considering that she can kill any target in 2 sec

and firecannon users are not wearing stupid looking hats unlike caltlyn

The Bad Touch1 votes

[{quoted}](name=no to toxic,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EqfX5kTl,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2018-01-28T00:30:07.343+0000)

But that can be applied to any ADC making your argument seem stupid

Ezreal Jhin LucianMissFortune Varus Xayah ???

Do you even league bro?

no to toxic1 votes

These are all champs with undogable DPS what are you talking about

The Bad Touch1 votes

[{quoted}](name=no to toxic,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EqfX5kTl,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000100010000,timestamp=2018-02-03T09:19:34.666+0000)

These are all champs with undogable DPS what are you talking about

When is the last time you saw a EZ get a kill purely from autoatacks? The only one of those that you can't prevent your on death simply by dodging is arguably Varus... I've been out of the loop a bit and honestly didn't realze how popular on-hit varus was. Last time I was much into league they were still building him Lethality and poking.

Deep Terror Nami1 votes

Hey Rubick, that sort of comment can be seen as a highly offensive derogatory term so I have edited it out of your comment. Even if it's for describing a champion (as opposed to a player) you should be more wary of this sort of insult and how others perceive it.

If you have questions or concerns about this action please visit us in the Moderation Discord here.

https://i.gyazo.com/60dae3aaeeb6bf71919cf40fc9e2213e.gif

Ahristocats2 votes

i'm really gratefull that you did not permaban me

didn't know i couldn't insult a champion, i am sorry and won't do it anymore

LOSINGISMYPRIDE2 votes

There is not much of a difference with changing magical to physical . You would only give him the opportunity to item 3071let him run faster item 3153 and it doesnt change much is mixed damage overall when you got this item 3124 . You just end up making is damage more oppresive while he would not have acces to armor reduction aside of his Q shred which need to hit anyways .

Ahristocats2 votes

black cleaver+W being physical damage is a lower damage output than W magical damage +witsend

because it's harder to build mr than armor and if his Q does not give shred anymore it's by far a nerf

also black cleaver shred takes a longer time to be stacked than witsend

Spoofghoul2 votes

with the proposed change only 2 attacks to shred that armor vs the 5 for wits end

BobaFlautist2 votes

The problem with that is it removes most of his gameplay. Personally, I would move like half to a third of his W damage to landing his Q (Like Shyv E) so he at least has to get a skillshot off to have all his damage.

More from Gameplay

More by Sayonara Shabi