If Renekton or Darius were allowed to bully their laner, then outscale them they'd be nerfed to shit

nah in aa stun aa w aaq a e away

I thought it was Mordekaiser. ;p

To be fair, with any level of coordination, Darius is plenty gankable. Easy? no. But he isn't exactly hard to gank if you can agree to just BOTH go in.

Renekton is an entirely different story. If you don't get on him together, he will just turn and blow up whoever he can reach, often getting a kill or making them recall. If you both jump on him, he can (if the player knows what they are doing) get a double dash off you by clipping you on the backside of his hitbox.

And now, with locket being decent / good on fighters and CotC existing, he scales VERY well as a tank compared to many fighters. A level 9 Renekton getting ganked can be reasonably expected to have access to 2314 effective HP if he has completed his cleaver. If we calculate resists = 3732 eHP vs AD (about 60 armor) or 3560 eHP vs AP (about 53 MR)

A level 16 Renekton with can be expected to have access to 5685 effective HP in a teamfight. If we calculate resists = 12633 eHP vs AD (about 120 armor) and about the same vs AP (about 122 MR) He also just did 1674 pre-mitigation Physical and 240 pre-mitigation Magical damage to your Vayne. (2 seconds of rank 3 renek ult damage, AA -> W -> Hydra active -> Empowered Q) If we calculate resists on level 16 Vayne, that is 1115 damage.

Effective HP formula: X / Y = eHP X = HP From all sources (healing, shielding, etc) Y = Oncoming Damage Multiplier More math below:

Level 9 - Standard AD rune page all flat errythang.

He has 1459 HP. If he procs CotC worth 2 people (he is getting ganked) he gets a 246 shield increased by 8% from masteries for a shield of 266. He then ults, getting 250 HP. Renekton has NOW gained 516 HP.

Say Renekton how gets off an Empowered Q on both enemy champions + 3 minions. That is 105 healing from the minions, and 209 healing from the champions, for total 314 healing increased by 8% in masteries for a healing total of 339 (not even near the capped healing potential of 450)

that is 516 + 339 = 855 effective HP gained from CotC, rank 1 ult, and an empowered Q on the melee creeps + 2 champs FOR A GRAND TOTAL OF 2314 EFFECTIVE HP AT LEVEL 9. (before accounting resistances into the effective HP equation)

That is with a CLEAVER RUSH.

Let's say Level 16 for the sake of science. HP = 2981

You are skirmishing near baron, 5v5. Renekton ults and then flashes + dashes onto your ADC and IMMEDIATELY uses an auto + W to stun them and reach 50 fury to prep an empowered Q.

Rank 3 R = 750HP 5 man CotC ( using post ult max HP ) = 1008 shield (including 8% increase from masteries)

Now he gets an Empowered Q off on 3 champions. Emp Q = 379 (including 8% increase from masteries)

He also activates locket, for the shield of 567 (including 8% increase from masteries)

Level 16 Renekton with gets 5685 effective HP in once rotation.

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7pWfGqeL,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2016-12-27T13:21:32.274+0000)

We're not talking about mobility or range, the OP specifically talked about comparable scaling, as in, how much a character damage increases with items and levels.

In that field, Darius is nearly unmatched... or to put it in simple terms; Xerath has massive range but his scaling is mediocre.

I thought scaling was about how effective the champion was based on how the game is being played?

For example, someone who excels at jungle fights but is shit in lane (Poppy should be one... except she isn't lol) is gonna be stronger mid to late game, as early game is mostly about laning unless jungler shenanigans happen. A lane bully may still be extremely strong late game, as long as they manage to put themselves in a 1v1 lane (splitpushing perhaps) even if they generally fall off late game to due to terrible teamfighting.

that's not the point. "Scaling" does not only depend on ratios. There do exist other champions which scale better, and both jayce and LeBlanc have problems against tanks. Their kits are extremely good during the early game, but are less effective in teamfights etc than others. It's always a comparison.

But they are able to snowball. That's a different thing, but if a game reaches the point where everyone has his full itembuild, they lose their advantage.

{quoted}

oh my goodeness better make more threads then

nothings stopping me [slayer-jinx-catface]

{quoted}

Not an adc main and I actually didn't know runaan's crits (you are saying the secondary bolts right?; i knew the main auto can crit with ruunan's), so I will trust your judgement over mine. I do feel like she's decent mid game IF her team is playing agressive/sieging. When her team is defending, you can't really dive them because of her traps unless you have already killed or poked about 2 of them out or they aren't grouped as 5 defending from my experience. But otherwise I would say i'm much more afraid of a twitch or vayne mid game than a cait. So overall I would rate her as mid tier for mid game adc's, but again as I said before I don't play adc so it's hard to judge. I basically am judging by how hard she hurts me as a bruiser/tank and how easy it is to delete her if her team doesn't peel properly/I get backup diving her. Thanks for the reply.

The secondary bolts do crit if the main crits. But, Runaans also triple stacks her passive so shes getting a headshot like every 3 autos instead of 7. The main deal is Runaans didn't used to crit, so you never really built it despite how good it was on her because it was Just AS. Now its AS and Crit(well its been that way for awhile but you get my point) and stacks her passive. Before this buff, she would go normal zeal items and take forever to stack her passive, so you would need like 4 items on her before you really started to be a power house. With crit runaans, 2 items and shes pretty strong now; way stronger than she was in the past with normal zeal items.

Couple that with the fact that her traps AND her Net now proc headshots, something that didnt happen before, and her mid-game is WAY better than it was when she was considered weak mid-game.

I mean shes not a monster mid-game, but this whole thing about her being weak mid-game is blown way out of proportion based on the old Cait pre-rework, pre-crit runaans. Back then she was strong as hell early, and fell off like a sack of bricks until like 4 items and then she was super strong again. Now, she has a pretty smooth power-curve through the whole game. Her mid-game is pretty decent with runaans/traps/net. Its def. not bad. There are a lot of adcs out there with WAY weaker mid-games.