Why is teemo not a jungle based champion? "Think about it."

Poptart Evelynn·Mar 28, 2015·131 votes·7,242 views

Why is Teemo laning? He's a scout.

He should be in the jungle*** scouting*** the enemy jungle. Giving his allies vision, setting up traps to protect lanes, and counter ganking with his invisibility.

Why is he not centered around this? Rito please. This is the perfect time to throw the guy a couple things to allow him to jungle. He doesn't really fit in the lanes. We love diversity in the jungle. Would be awesome as hell to see Teemo jungle in LCS too.

Edit - Oh wow I was just throwing out how I feel about it and this got a lot of approval. I don't really want a rework. Just something to make him work as a jungler. He can very well do it atm just not as efficient as other junglers without some sort of kick in it. Just something simple to reduce damage taken from jungle could make it work better.

127 Comments

Sunya UwUMar 28, 201540 votes

[deleted]

Big LincolnMar 28, 201513 votes

teemo isn't nidalee

j jMar 28, 201533 votes

Nidalee has been strong anywhere she went. It's just her kit not sending her in the jungle itself. Even when cougar was lvl 6 she still was strong as a support, top, mid. Literally has been one of the MOST versatile champion in league history.

DJ Di0Mar 28, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=j j,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Eq5hlnIE,comment-id=00050002,timestamp=2015-03-28T14:52:12.248+0000)

Nidalee has been strong anywhere she went. It's just her kit not sending her in the jungle itself. Even when cougar was lvl 6 she still was strong as a support, top, mid. Literally has been one of the MOST versatile champion in league history.

Not true; Karma can go Top, Mid, or Support (I've even seen some jungles). Morgana can go Top, Mid, Jungle, and Support.

The most versatile champion in League history is definitely Kayle , she can go anywhere (though obviously some roles she isn't as strong in without cdr)

OyddAWqJ5rMar 28, 201526 votes

Literally has been one of the MOST versatile champion in league history.

Literally has been one of the MOST versatile champion in league history.

~~the MOST?~~

one of the MOST

~~Not true; Karma can go Top, Mid, or Support (I've even seen some jungles). Morgana can go Top, Mid, Jungle, and Support.~~

It's very true. Did he say the most? No, one of the most.

DrCyanideMar 28, 201514 votes

And thematically it fits. You could argue that she needs balance changes, but she broke the stranglehold of Warrior Enchantment Junglers that this season started with.

LlaniteMar 28, 20152 votes

Only viable as her traps root the monsters.

Teemo needs the same mechanic if he wants to jg.

Meeks011Mar 29, 20152 votes

I jungled fine with her BEFORE the buffs.

JofeyyMar 29, 20152 votes

I actually like nidalee as a jungle based champion. The fact that she is overpowered there however, is a different story.

Meep ManMar 28, 201511 votes

I think the bigger thing that would throw Teemo into the jungle is the fact he goes on long journeys into the Kumunga JUNGLE in order to get his poison.

Troy242621Mar 28, 201510 votes

I've played Teemo jungle, and he works best as a counterjungler. Ward their jungle so you know where they're at, then with a combination of shrooms and your passive you can ambush them pretty easily most times.

I'd imagine it was really annoying.

Best Darius KRMar 28, 20158 votes

It could work if he had an ability to switch between a form where he used his blowgun and a knife

Didn't need to have diferent abilities, just some combat bonuses

KarKzzMar 28, 20154 votes

You have me that idea :

Passive : Stay the same as now.

Q : Blowgun : Teemo use his blowgun, making him ranged. ( + Blind on first attack ?) :Knife : Teemo pull out his knife, giving him a brief movement buff if he didn't got hit the past 5 seconds. The first attack will slow the target during 2 seconds for 20/25/30/35/40%. Double the poison on-hit damage OR 5% or target missing health as magic damage. ( he is not as mobile as fizz, so it may be ok)

Z : Hunter's net : Teemo throws a net, snaring the target for 1,5 second. If he hit , he gain a small and brief mouvement speed bonus.

E : Selfmade poison : Teemo poison his weapons. For 6 seconds , his basics attacks deal additional on-hit magic damage, and applies a dot.

R : Yordle yordle yordle mushroom : Stay the same. (+ get his shroom by walking instead of a cooldown ?)

junglerboy16Mar 28, 20157 votes

I like this a lot, but here are a few ideas:

instead of moving the MS boost to his Q form switch, move it to his passive (to better facilitate ambushes)
Having a form switch like this that only gives different bonuses (a la Jinx Q) would be excellent, but the melee bonuses would have to be significant enough to warrant ever being in that form. I think having a % missing HP on-hit effect while melee would be excellent, but it would have to have a low base (like 3% missing HP) and have an AP ratio.
Your idea for W is a little weird, Teemo isn't a hunter, he is a scout/spec ops guerrilla fighter, so maybe something more oriented towards a sort of hit-and-run skirmishing style would be better suited to his kit (also, giving an assassin a hard CC is generally not a good idea, especially when he already has another one)
I like that E is now an active, but since it is now an active, the poison DoT would have to stack with multiple hits to turn it into more of an assassination tool and less of an "I auto you once and make you hurt a lot" kind of spell. Basically, less up front DoT, but multiple stacks hurt a lot more than currently.
I like the idea of charging mushrooms by moving rather than CD, it connects to his lore where he looks for shrooms in the jungle, and also would make him less of a pain in lane, but buff him as a jungler.

KarKzzMar 28, 20151 votes

I agree with everything you said. If you remove the Q movement speed to put it on the passive, i think he could use some kind of gapcloser. The W could be change as a roll ? (They see me rollin' they hatin') I think it's more fun / interesting to use than a movement speed buff. Also imagine teemo rolling. IMAGINE.

junglerboy16Mar 28, 20153 votes

I actually had another Idea that would sort of reward Teemo for stalking into a lane and would serve to reinforce his scout identity while replacing an all out gapcloser.

Passive, Camouflage: If Teemo stands still for 2 seconds, he gains stealth for 4 seconds, as well as a 15% move speed buff. This refreshes infinitely as long as he stands still (but moving requires a full 2 stationary seconds to refresh the stealth again). On breaking stealth (by attacking or the buff wearing off), Teemo gains 35/50/75% AS for 3 seconds.

This isn't a true gapcloser, but it would help him gank a lane and adds to the secretive scouting aspect of his identity (he tries to get from one bit of cover to the next as quickly as possible) He could effectively stay stealth infinitely, but would have to gauge how much time he is wasting by standing still for the passive refresh and how much he should just use the MS and stealth to get in for a quick attack.

For W, maybe it could passively increase the MS buff his passive gives by 5/10/15/20/25% bonus (20/25/30/35/40% total). For an active how about something like: Killer's precision: for 6 seconds, your AAs and abilities cause you target to deal X% (maybe like 8/11/14/17/20%) less damage to you (only applies to the target last hit, and only reduces damage to Teemo) and you heal for a small amount on-hit while granting a small bit of movement speed (ideally with the heal scaling with AP).

I think giving him a true gap closer would kind of break him and remove a lot of cool options he could have, because then there would be no need for him to worry about how to get to melee range, or how to get out of a fight, and that would give us somebody like Nidalee or Fizz, and not a strategist like Teemo ought to be.

Troy242621Mar 28, 20158 votes

Just jungled it and got all 4 first buffs. Started his red, then when Nocturne showed up killed him. Then I stole his blue while he respawned and cleared both my buffs. I then warded his jungle, farmed to 6 and owned his entire bottom half of the jungle (And dragon).

EVERY TIME he tried to farm his bottom jungle, I'd see him enter through a ward, shroom the area and then stealth and ambush him. Killed him just about every time.

That's why I think he's thematically a jungler. He can ACTUALLY ambush people here. Granted I abused the sh*t out of his team's poor vision and it'd be much less effective in higher ELO, but it was fun as Hell.

HawkefireMar 29, 20152 votes

Real talk though: if his team had any form of ward coverage early on (and the top laner or bot laner(s) always should ward the bush that overlooks the river entry to red, and he should be guarding it for the first 30-40ish seconds of the game).

And if his team was smart and actually placed wards and worked together you would gave been forced out of there.

GundayMondayMar 28, 20155 votes

There are a few master players that are terrifying jungle teemos. It's not as strong now that the creeps reset after 5 soft resets instead of 10, but it still works, and is terrifying. I've seen players go 30 offense, on hit teemo, with the stacking jungle item. They shroom the entrances of their jungle and just keep farming, and shrooming. Terrifying.

junglerboy16Mar 28, 20152 votes

I'm so going to try this now...

ShinjusukeMar 28, 20155 votes

He can jungle. He's actually very good at it. There's just a stigma against teemo because lets be honest, 90% of the teemos you encounter suck ass, and then seeing a teemo go somewhere besides top makes people even more skeptical.

He actually jungles just fine.

The Blue RoosterMar 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

He can jungle. He's actually very good at it. There's just a stigma against teemo because lets be honest, 90% of the teemos you encounter suck ass, and then seeing a teemo go somewhere besides top makes people even more skeptical.

He actually jungles just fine.

This. Nothing like getting level two and running to your enemy's second buff camp. Just stand next to it while they take it and kill them when they get low and take their buff. Counterjungle achieved.

CarylMar 29, 20152 votes

Because no other champion in the game can do this amirite?

SEKAIMar 28, 20153 votes

You also don't get the memo that scouts aren't troopers who stalk the jungle while driving wild lives to the boundary of extinction to feed upon their corpses.

That's why I don't think champion titles should have anything to do with what they do in-game unless specifically designed for jungling purposes like Rengar and Kha, who both aren't favourable in the scene atm ironically.

Teemo wasn't originally designed as a jungle champ, there is no reason to simply force him into one now.

Poptart EvelynnMar 28, 201524 votes

{quoted}

You don't get the memo that scouts also aren't troopers who stalk the jungle while pushing wild lives to the boundary of extinction to feed upon their corpses.

Scout A soldier or other person sent out ahead of a main force so as to gather information about the enemy's position, strength, or movements.

SEKAIMar 28, 20152 votes

The job of scouts is like you said, doesn't involve actively killing wild lives or other people, unless obviously for self defense reasons.

That's why he has nothing to do with jungling in League, he has no real incentive to kill random stuff in jungle, the only champs designed with actual jungling in mind are Reng and Kha, rest are kinda just there for gameplay purposes and nothing else.

There is just no reason to make him a jungle champ of some sort just because his title has something to do with running in bushlands or whatever, while he already serves this purpose well enough with his global vision/harass that comes from his ulti and roaming, and invisibility granted by his passive.

I think it's already enough.

DrCyanideMar 28, 201518 votes

You logic makes him fit less in lane (killing all the front line troops, constantly attacking the enemy) than in the jungle (showing up once in a while to help another deal with the enemy).

John BerserkMar 29, 20153 votes

This could be a chance for a bit of a kit rework as well, one that's both more fun to play as and not as annoying to play against.

Honestly all he really needs to keep in his kit to make sure he's still "Teemo" is his shrooms. His Q could have some added counterplay though, and his E could have...something. (I just dont like purely passive basic abilities)

I eat dragonsMar 28, 20152 votes

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RaxicorMar 28, 201528 votes

Teemo's not Nidalee though. Is this going to be a thing now? No champion can move to the jungle because of Nidalee? Lol

DrCyanideMar 28, 20159 votes

It broke the grip of Warrior Enchantment Junglers at the start of the season. You can argue she needs balance changes, but it was a good thing both thematically and for gameplay.

ArkenStormMar 28, 20151 votes

Then there's cinderhulk. And then the autoattacker junglers with devourer. And then fid, nunu(only viable AP jungles I thought of) for magus. And actually rumble jungle with magus is very strong

EvilRabbittMar 28, 20151 votes

Diana and Elise are sad now.

junglerboy16Mar 28, 20153 votes

Diana jungle is REALLY good right now, the only reason she isn't showing up in the pro scene is that she is stronger in a lane and tanks like Sejuani are ruling the jungle.

ArkenStormMar 29, 20151 votes

I don't know about Diana, but I beg to differ on Elise's viability. My friend used to main her, no longer does. He wants to pick her back up but there are so many better picks that he doesn't

EvilRabbittMar 30, 20151 votes

I just enjoy Elise's ability to destroy bush engages (you know, where those 5 guys wait for your 3 in that one bush they swept for wards?) by tossing stuns and her aoe nuke then getting a rappel-flash disengage. Its, maybe not effective, but hilarious to watch the dreams of the 3 man pick turn into the chase with the uncatchable spider. Forgive the super long run-on sentence please. Also, Elise has THE BEST tower pushing presence ap wise. This is undeniable.

Kitten of EvilMar 30, 20151 votes

I dunno, I think Azir and Twisted Fate have better tower-pushing presence.

Rinky DinkyMar 28, 20152 votes

It did.

Darth Pixy MisaMar 28, 20152 votes

Teemo would need more armor and some sustain mechanic to work in the jungle.

SecretAgentHulkMar 28, 20155 votes

Extra passive on E: Teemo is healed for a small percentage of poison damage dealt to neutral monsters. Badaboom.

NielzMar 28, 20152 votes

lol i've been playing teemo jungle for ages now. devourer - wits end - runaans hurricane - sorc boots - liandrys - void staff. incredible objective control and dueling capabilities, along with a fantastic late game and great wave clear. i can usually 2v1 or 3v1 if I play it right.

BorfinMar 29, 20152 votes

this is an idea i can get behind

i mean what else would be more thematically awesome than the enemy foolish enough to enter teemo's jungle, get popped with 3 shrooms and THERE'S TEEMO UNSTEALTHING AND POPPING A FEW ROUNDS

A Drowned FishMar 29, 20152 votes

I don't know man Ibeen playing jungle Teemo forever Teemo

Jesus is SaviorMar 29, 20152 votes

Teemo jungle is kind of bad. I played it when kiting monsters was easier. You shroom up your entire jungle, and the entire enemy team just never steps a foot in it.

4nth0l0gyMar 28, 20151 votes

Hm...what would you give him to make him a better jungler? He doesn't really have any ganking tools, for example.

junglerboy16Mar 28, 20155 votes

Map control. Holy mother of map control.

Roaming around shrooming EVERYWHERE, being impossible to hunt down in his jungle (because shrooms give vision) and having amazing ambush potential. If they amplified those things and toned back on the "annoying" factors of his kit, I think he would be pretty well off.

4nth0l0gyMar 28, 20151 votes

you don't think he offers enough map control currently? What are the "annoying" factors of his kit? How would you amplify his roaming and his ambush potential?

junglerboy16Mar 28, 20153 votes

He certainly offers a lot of map control, but right now it is mostly "dang it I stepped on a shroom, have to back" and doesn't convert into any sort of major assassination potential like it should (that or "whoops, stepped on a shroom, lol" walks away unharmed). That is also equally what makes it so annoying, is that while the shrooms do little for Teemo unless he is lucky enough to be in the vicinity already, they are flat out obnoxious for the enemy team.

He already has a lot of map control, but my idea is to change how he controls the map. To do this, I would suggest any of these things:

Shroom CD is lowered.
Shrooms deal less damage total but have a longer DoT duration.
Shrooms apply some sort of debuff that amplifies Teemo's damage to that target, but can only effect one enemy at a time.
If an enemy steps on a shroom, Teemo gains MS towards them/gains stealth for a few seconds before triggering his passive's bonus AS.
Shrooms have greater vision radius
Teemo gains a one time bonus damage proc of a sort when attacking an enemy that stepped on a shroom (once per shroom would ok, but having an internal cooldown would also be a way to manage it).

For better assassination and ambush power, I suggest any of these changes:

Passive grants stealth for 4 seconds when standing still for 2 seconds (buff duration refreshes as long as he is immobile). This could allow for some really sick stealth shuffling around the map, and some pretty insane banks if he is patient enough, like stealth>move for 1 second>re-stealth>move>re-stealth etc. Sort of like he is sneaking around behind enemy lines or something of the sort.
Passive's AS bonus increases with level (like 40/55/80% Bonus AS on breaking stealth)
Like someone below suggested, change his Q to a form swap (between dart gun and knife) dart gun has a blind on the first attack after switching, and knife deals missing health bonus damage.
Change E to an active where the poison DoT stacks with consecutive hits, but starts out lower and isn't always active.