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As much as Supports like Janna, Lulu, Karma, Sona and Soraka annoy me...

HateDaddy·Mar 25, 2017·73 votes·6,909 views

I will take them over mage supports who can 100-0 your adcs and chunk tanks/bruisers at all points of the game any day of the week.

This isn't QQ or a point about balance, it's about what I think is simply healthier. Lulu, Janna, Sona, Raka and Karma and any enchanter support can be annoying to lane against in different ways but their utility actually enable teammates to do things they likely couldn't have done ordinarily. The opposite is true for mage supports, they play largely for damage or have very simple and frustrating play patterns (did Annie support stun your entire team) that either do a lot or do very little.

I admit I have a natural bias and whatever support players want to play is fine. But the enchanters of the world often time feel more satisfying to play with because they can enable their teammates to do so much more.

I'll give you an example of why I love Janna:

http://plays.tv/video/58d4a69259442a52e3/jax-pentakill

(Self promoting aside) This was literally impossible without Janna. And yeah, I was fed but many of my kills and big moments wouldn't have happened without the support of Janna. Mage supports don't enable me this way because their play styles or so much more selfish, and I think that ultimately leads to a much unhealthier style of play.

130 Comments

FantasySniperMar 25, 201711 votes

I'm pretty damn sure Karma is more lethal than you're making her out to be.

HateDaddyMar 25, 201716 votes

{quoted}

I'm pretty damn sure Karma is more lethal than you're making her out to be.

She is early game and mid game if she gets fed but her damage falls off hard

FantasySniperMar 25, 20172 votes

If she focuses utility-support items, at least, but I get ya.

10TicklerMar 25, 20172 votes

level 6 Karma main, not Seven 'cuz I don't have a computer set up right now.

item 3070 > Mid-late item 3003 , item 3158 item 3107 item 3174 item 3190 item 3060 . Survive teamfights, split lanes, engage with damn decent poke damage.

TNHA BaritoneMar 26, 20171 votes

Tear on Karma might just be the worse thing you can do as a support seeking damage.

10TicklerMar 27, 20171 votes

You say that.

Then it works for me.

And who's the one in the wrong?

TNHA BaritoneMar 27, 20171 votes

You still are, but I'll leave you in your bliss.

10TicklerMar 27, 20171 votes

My wins, quickly Stacking Tear, and still somewhat decent damage while being able to be tanky and I will just be over here, being 'wrong' then.

Also, your view was flawed from the start.

Support seeking damage

See...

The build provided was moreso Tanky and Utility based, while adding in the now-healing shields with Athene's. The extra shield provided by Seraph's Embrace, and the Immense amount of Mana allowing me to poke and heal more with more shields, that's just a bonus.

PermabannedGarenMar 25, 20176 votes

I frankly disagree.

I can shit on enemy damage dealing supports fairly easily as the champions I play. The only one I really feared at all was Malzahar, but Malzahar in general is cancer.

I hate champions like Janna or Lulu not for their ability to do things, but for their ability to prevent me from doing things, because I'm a toxic person who plays melee carries.

HateDaddyMar 25, 20179 votes

{quoted}

I frankly disagree.

I can shit on enemy damage dealing supports fairly easily as the champions I play. The only one I really feared at all was Malzahar, but Malzahar in general is cancer.

I hate champions like Janna or Lulu not for their ability to do things, but for their ability to prevent me from doing things, because I'm a toxic person who plays melee carries.

There's a trade off, I don't disagree. However, I prefer the trade off where Lulu and Janna can equally enable me.

And when we boil down to it, most things in this game are far more detrimental to melee champions than ranged champions, so a Lulu/Janna/Karma will feel far more punishing to melee champions than ranged champions. That said, the same can be said for mage supports. Hell, you can kill brand/zyra and they'll still CC you and chunk your team.

PermabannedGarenMar 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}

There's a trade off, I don't disagree. However, I prefer the trade off where Lulu and Janna can equally enable me.

And when we boil down to it, most things in this game are far more detrimental to melee champions than ranged champions, so a Lulu/Janna/Karma will feel far more punishing to melee champions than ranged champions. That said, the same can be said for mage supports. Hell, you can kill brand/zyra and they'll still CC you and chunk your team.

Yasuo That's what you think friend. Yasuo

HateDaddyMar 25, 201711 votes

{quoted}

That's what you think friend.

Hey man, yasuo is the exception, not the rule. And he's aids anyway.

Papa AndreiMar 25, 20173 votes

" I can't 100-0 squishies, so gut them!"

Lol, and you wonder why most everyone with F.E.K has you blacklisted.

PermabannedGarenMar 25, 20174 votes

{quoted}

" I can't 100-0 squishies, so gut them!"

Lol, and you wonder why most everyone with F.E.K has you blacklisted.

Well I have no idea what F.E.K. is, so no I don't wonder that. I googled it and all the top results were some furry porn artist. I have nothing against people who want to have sex with anthropomorphic cartoon animals, but I do not care if those with this "Fek" have blacklisted me.

Oh, and I also didn't say the first part, nor were either of my posts in any way particularly serious my son. Who are you, by the way? I assume you're some poster who interacted with me in the past, and you're still deeply upset over it? It warms my heart to know I can have such a profound effect on a person's life.

Papa AndreiMar 25, 20173 votes

Forum Enhancing Kit, actually type things in before making assumptions.

{quoted}

I hate champions like Janna or Lulu not for their ability to do things, but for their ability to prevent me from doing things, because I'm a toxic person who plays melee

Sounds like you are saying you hate them to stop you from 100-0 someone.

PermabannedGarenMar 25, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Forum Enhancing Kit, actually type things in before making assumptions.

Ah I see, so it's what cowards use to hide from people who say things that make their poor little hearts crap their pants.

Sounds like you are saying you hate them to stop you from 100-0 someone.

That's because you're not very intelligent my man.

Had you any intelligence or social skills you might have noticed that I credited my feelings on me being a toxic skirmisher player, which is an acknowledgement of my own bias. I sincerely doubt you have the self-awareness to be capable of the same lad.

My personal dislike of the champions does not imply that I wish them to be gutted, as you said.

Now you face the question that will define who you are as a man: will you heed my wisdom and better yourself in future interactions with others, or will you double-down and stubbornly insist that you are right?

BhagswagMar 25, 20173 votes

Why do you sound like an old mage boss from old video games

PermabannedGarenMar 25, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Why do you sound like an old mage boss from old video games

I am not old take that back

KoggyStyleMar 25, 20171 votes

its a forum mod.....

Remember kids, always type LOL when looking up something related to league.

PermabannedGarenMar 25, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snaggle Tooth,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EnOXAjJj,comment-id=0003000100000002,timestamp=2017-03-25T17:08:44.526+0000)

its a forum mod.....

Remember kids, always type LOL when looking up something related to league.

This might have been a little subtle, but I could not have given a single shit about what he was actually talking about, and just wanted to insinuate that he liked fucking animals.

KoggyStyleMar 25, 20171 votes

:P the real question is, why do you like hinting at someone liking it?

seems to me your the one who does :O

PermabannedGarenMar 25, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snaggle Tooth,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EnOXAjJj,comment-id=000300010000000200000000,timestamp=2017-03-25T19:02:13.499+0000)

:P the real question is, why do you like hinting at someone liking it?

seems to me your the one who does :O

Nonsense. Fucking animals carries serious medical risks. Instead I look up videos of other people doing it to get off.

KoggyStyleMar 25, 20174 votes

cant even troll you nice XD

SSShutTheDuckUpMar 25, 20174 votes

Sona item 2301 item 3100 item 3089 item 3165 item 3285 item 3135 Indeed, I cannot 100-0 adc and melt tanks

AhristocatsMar 25, 20177 votes

replace sona by karma lulu or janna with this build, and you get the same result

it's called artificial scalling

OrangesilkMar 25, 20174 votes

I mean, Amumu Jax Malphite can probably delete someone with a build like that too, doesn't mean they're doing their job.

JorenciceMar 25, 20172 votes

Amumu really can. He can get up to 105 hard magic pen and around 750 AP.

Which means ye hits a standard adc for around 2k unavoidable burst.

And his W deal around 9% max health a second in true damage.

TNHA BaritoneMar 25, 20177 votes

Even with Soraka. Lol I'm not sure what point that guy was trying to make.

IxtaliKingMar 25, 20173 votes

It's not "artificial" for Karma, she was always meant to build hard ap items. Riot just seem to have forgotten that, and took away her damage options.

TNHA BaritoneMar 26, 20171 votes

Hey man, get that pro-ap karma liberal nonsense out of here! We don't need it. /s

Wassup Kold, long time no see.

(Used to be KarmaCatchesUp2U before many name changes)

IxtaliKingMar 26, 20171 votes

Lol hey dude, it's been awhile. I'm determined to make sure people remember what Karma really is... I can see her history being whitewashed already

TNHA BaritoneMar 26, 20171 votes

As soon as they remember what she really is: "she's so broken because she can do this even though she is a support"

IxtaliKingMar 26, 20171 votes

They want her to suck that's why lol

TNHA BaritoneMar 26, 20172 votes

I think it is also a "Let's kick these whiny Karma mains down" kind of thing.

TNHA BaritoneMar 25, 20178 votes

You also will get 100-0'd and won't finish that build until 50 minutes. That build literally costs more than the average mage build.

SSShutTheDuckUpMar 25, 20171 votes

You underestimate enemy's ADC ability to donate gold early on

Pika310Mar 26, 20173 votes

Lmfao, if you're on Sona, YOU are the only person who'll be donating gold.

SSShutTheDuckUpMar 26, 20171 votes

The only person who donates gold? You must never had a Yasuo teammate. Lucky you

Pika310Mar 26, 20172 votes

Touche. I can honestly say my friends and I for a while were banning out our 1 friend's Yasuo because he would insist on playing him and average 15 deaths per game. Of course, now he just feeds on everyone. His official average deaths this season is already up to 8.9.

However, even he's smart enough to not pick Sona. He knows her average deaths would easily break 20.

chipndip1Mar 26, 20172 votes

and Zyra/Brand don't have the same shit?

Calintz6565Mar 25, 20173 votes

Healthier? Karma can chunk the shit out of you with little to no ap items. You haven't even pointed out how they are "healthier" beyond they can chunk adcs. Again supports like Karma can chunk you. Also, a well-timed ult from Zyra can turn a game. Ok, they can enable you to do things with buffs and shields. Fine. If you personally prefer enchanters that's fine, but your reasoning for them being healthier is terrible. Brand is a pain in the ass, but I will take him over champions like Soraka that can just seemingly "negate" your damage in lane.

HateDaddyMar 25, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Healthier? This is the worst QQ post thinly disguised as an argument I have ever seen. Karma can chunk the shit out of you with little to no ap items. You haven't even pointed out how they are "healthier" beyond they can chunk adcs. Again supports like Karma can chunk you. Also, a well-timed ult from Zyra can turn a game. Ok, they can enable you to do things with buffs and shields. If you personally prefer enchanters that's fine, but your reasoning for them being healthier is terrible.

I should preface that as an opinion, not an indictment on balance because you aren't incorrect with you're assessment. The only thing I'll note is Karmas damage falls off hardcore and she becomes a pure enchanter. Mage supports don't have that issue and I'd argue that because they are more feast or famine in their play style, because that's how damage tends to be, they are less healthy. That's not to say mage supports can't make gamechanging plays with their kits independent of their damage but they do it less consistently.

Calintz6565Mar 25, 20171 votes

If we are talking about Brand? Ok. I grant you that point. Annie is kind of in the middle because of her stun. When it comes to Zyra though? Bruh, she can chunk squishies, but she also turns into a CC bot for the most part late game. Besides chunking squishes generally isn't that hard. I don't think I understand your definition of healthy either. Imo Soraka is unhealthy. Champs like her and Sona can render engagements against their carries almost pointless. So I don't really understand how these champs are healthier simply because they are more utility oriented.

Papa AndreiMar 25, 20178 votes

This enemy (Brand) stops my engage by killing my team! perfeclty fine and balanced.

This enemy (Janna) Stops my engage by reporistioning our team slightly and shielding one person! GUT IT FFS RITO WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU.

You people make no sense at all.

Soraka, Janna, Lulu, Karma, Sona, are among the healthiest in the game. Your reasoning for them being unhealthy, is because they can stop you just braindead assfucking the enemy team. Solid logic.

crippler38Mar 25, 20171 votes

I think the main reason behind the jaina salt is no amount of number nerfs will change how annoying she is unless she's guttered.

Skins ProjectMar 25, 20174 votes

*Janna And what do you define as annoying?

Is a shield inherently unhealthy? No. Is a heal? No not really.

I don't get the fuss about Janna. People complain about her being a shield bot but really? That's just stupid. Go play a game as Janna and do NOTHING but shield. Tell me how well you hmm?

DemiluniSMar 26, 20171 votes

You don't have to take everything so literally. It's not that her mechanics are toxic or have no counter play individually but the amount of utility and disengage she brings to a team with her kit is overbearing. It's a living nightmare playing melee champions against her because. It's all matter of preference and playstyle. If you're an adc main, ofc you'd rather play against an enchanter support rather than a mage who can kill you. But to people who playing assasins it's much easier to deal with mage supports.

Pika310Mar 26, 20172 votes

{quoted}

But to people who playing assasins it's much easier to deal with mage supports.

Isn't this statement right here counter-intuitive to the point you're trying to make? Assassins are inherently unhealthy for game balance. Assassin players are all toxic douches that just want to hide in bushes or fog of war and repeatedly bm over and over. Which they're allowed to because Rito encourages dishonorable behavior both with their lack of player moderation and enabling it in assassins' kits.

Why the fuck should we ever cater to assassin players?

Big Black CrocMar 27, 20171 votes

How the fuk is janna and soraka among the healthiest? soraka literaly gives champs sustain and she does retarded healing. janna is cancer to melee champs and is so uninteractive.

If these champs are among the healthiest then the champs in this game must be REALY unhealthy.

Papa AndreiMar 27, 20171 votes

Ironic how you play champs that those two specifically counter lol. (Fizz, Wu, Riven, Trundle)

Bit biased are you not?

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