"Fizz has a weak early game and lane phase!"

More like:

GG

Or at least that's how it was season 4

He used to be 10 times worse. At least now you have an opportunity to punish him if he misses his abilities and is somewhat manageable before he gets his core items.

Before the Fizz nerfs, Fizz mathematically had the highest AP and AD ratio of any champion on his Q. It scaled with 100% AD and 60% AP, but it also proc'ed Seastone Trident and Lich bane, giving Fizz close to 200% AP scaling and 150% AD scaling plus an 8% missing health DoT and the abilities' base damages on a single unavoidable 3 second CD attack (he always got full CDR).

But wait, it gets better. Sea Stone Trident also proc'ed grevious wounds, giving enemies no chance to recover. Fizz could literally one shot carries with his Q+W alone. Against Tankier targets, he could use DFG, W, Q, E, Zhonyas, and Q, E again. He was infamous as the assassin that did not need his ultimate to kill, and had an engage range that rivaled Talon's.

Fizz was literally Freelo. Despite having possibly the highest burst damage at that time, Fizz was still practically invulnerable ~40% of the time due to the low CD on his troll pole. For a while, only Fizz and Ahri could be played mid lane in solo queue due to how oppressive they where. (Ahri used to be able to cast her ultimate with near unlimited charges). His only weakness is running our of mana; however, mana regeneration was very generous back then, and he could easily buy an Elixir of Brilliance if he needed the extra mana.

During the preseason, many players tried out AD Fizz which revealed its devastating effectiveness. However, AD Fizz only came into the spot light due to the nerfs to AP Fizz. In Season 4, everyone would build him AP just because of how strong he was as an AP assassin.

Fizz is weak until he gets , or possibly just level 3, then he destroys everyone and ignores half the damage output or just doesn't allow anyone to kill him when he's casting to kill you.

Just R, Q, E,(sometimes not even R) can't do squat to him for the duration of his E and ignores all skillshots or whatever, then he burst you and now you're either dead, or about to be after he hits you a few times.

Repeats that a bunch, now he's super fed, and you're game is about to end hard because Fizz is a fucking AP carry that passively makes him an ass that ignores part of your damage(a lot on attack speed champs) and ignores the rest for a period with his fucking E and destroys towers with his W.

There are very very very few champions in this game that can survive a fizz all inning them earlygame. This idea that fizz has a weak earlygame is just dumb and misplaced, and while fizz certainly does have weaknesses during his earlygame that doesn't actually mean that his earlygame is weak.

yeah, uhm, fizz can pretty much jump you level one. He's not afraid of fucking anyone in mid lane at level 1, practically.

Well he has a weak early game, but it depends on what you call a "weak early game". He is not like who don't have any real trade potential on the lane and the enemy auto-win the lane without your jungler, but in his own way his laning is bad. is very similar. Everyone know has a weak early game. But why? His e is a very strong trading tool at the early levels, he has a nice as steroid, an aa reset with decent bomus damage, and a gap-closer, mobility tool. But he don't has any wave clear, poke damage, his cooldowns are long in early and the opportunity to fght back is huge, and seriously gated by his mana pool. Post 6 with some item he become a scary duelist. So not useless, but definitely weak on the lane. is very similar in terms of early power and has the same strenght and weaknesses. can't clear the wave, has a poor farm potential, he run out of mana quickly, and it's very easy to push him under the tower and harass him. If you lower your defense and walk into his range or allow him to jump on you he will win the trade because he is a skirmisher, and post 6 if you get hitted by the fish you are dead for sure. All your need to do is shove the lane and don't try to poke him at all cast if it is risky. This will force him to use his e for wave clear and while it is on cd you can trade with him. Some jungler attention on the lane also a good idea. If you force him to be behind and you play properly the mid game can be very painful for him as he can't defend towers. Avoid duels and skirmishes with him, dodge his ultimate and you shall be fine. Also his zone control is 0 and it can pay back in dragon fights.

Yeah, that is a classic League myth. Fizz needs nerfing so bad.

"Weak early game" AKA weak for 2 levels so more like weak first 30 seconds or so once the minions roll in.

Since when does Fizz have a weak/abusable laning phase? He only has problems against certain archetypes, like lane-strong AD assassins. He doesn't lose to mage (that is not current Azir) at all because trickster+seastone trident is win.

I would argue his laning is pretty weak anyway. Getting sustain is attempting to compensate for it, that doesn't change his inherent laning potential; it more seems to mitigate the risk of his downsides in lane to a degree and allow more room for roaming. His early game at dueling is still strong though imo and in all points in the game where he isn't very behind -- but dueling is his core -- and so by nature has to make his pre mid game laning sub par. Being fed is always another issue set.

Fizz hasn't ever had a bad laning phase.

He gets pushed in, if you have a problem with sustain, start flask too. Fizz falls of really hard late because so much of his damage depends on his fish now.

lol what happened to "fizz is shit" "buff fizz" "fizz sucks" probably the tears of fizz abusers idk

oh look another thread where people complain about x champion. if only you could play a champion that pushed him in early and negate his roaming potential

or if you're that bad at the game just play pantheon and dodge every q he slides in with

Compared to the later stages of the game, yes, his early is fairly weak. For most people though, it's not weak, simply abusable.

i have a simple combo on fizz that works every time

get w first level 2 get q and go in auto some time then walk out then once you get 3 you can go in for the kill

why is flask + pots stronger on Fizz than on anyone else?

4 pots? lol ok

I feel it's because of the increase to minion damage that makes his laning stronger. Before it was natural to auto attack harass 24/7. Now if you auto attack, or even cast a spell to harass, you basically take that much damage in minion hits. That also pushes the lane so you are more susceptible to ganks and he can farm under turret.

It saddens me to admit, but I don't think Flask is a healthy item, it does too good a job at covering up lane weaknesses, and it's even worse on champs that get a huge power spike with ulty (I'm mainly thinking Talon here)

Sure he's abusable, until he puts a point in his 16s cd flash with invincibility, a slow, and dmg :P

Let's AP Ez somewhat skip his weak early game too

more like, has a weak-ish lvl 1, maybe 2, more depending on match-ups tbh

Ehh I sometimes have bad laning phases with Fizz but I haven't in a while, so I'd say that I don't agree.

is where it's at :D

tell that to skirmish tank fizz, i beat him so hard in lane as rene (because my jungle camped, or else i would of lost) yet he was still doing so much dmg, and his tankiness was on par with mine.