Blue buff nerf, new jungle items, increased monster health, Blasting Smite

Kowe The Ewok·Nov 25, 2014·8 votes·1,678 views

The new jugnle severely shifted balance: Jungler who can afford an aggressive smite and those who cannot.

With the increased monster health and worsened mana sustain in jungle items a lot of champions (Hecarim... Sejuani...) are forced to pick Blasting Smite in order to make it through the jungle.

This creates an imbalance with junglers who used to be "on the same level" (balance wise) but now have the option to pick a duelling smite without loosing cleartime.

Imho Hunter's Machete should gain a slight buff to mana regeneration.

18 Comments

Knight DevoutNov 25, 20143 votes

Blasting Smite needs to reward 20% of the champion TOTAL health and mana (up from missinh).

Tank junglers already give up on the chance of counterjungling, and dueling , when picking item 3713 Ranger Trailblazer. This is to make up for their lack of sustain, and high damage sustained in the jungle. However, the 20% missing health means that the heal is actually 12%, 8% usually, something that gank junglers that can afford item 3706 Stalker's Blade usually have innate in their kit. Thus the item only helps partially bridging that weakness.

On top of that, those champions also have a slow/cc that makes their gank still strong. A Elise that ganks well landing cocoon still has a decent cc when compared to an early Nautilus/sejuani gank, on top of staying healthier through innate sustain. 20% of total health would make beefier junglers heal more, and thus better in fulfilling their role during ganking soaking damage (because, face it, between a Sejuani and Kha'zix it's easier to avoid damage with the smaller hitbox and leap of kha'zix, plus kha'zix leap doesn't sacrifice his cc. Same with lee Sin safeguard).

ProfDrDeathNov 25, 20144 votes

Are you nuts?

Trailblazer and Sabre are currently the strongest jungle items, with Trailblazer possessing broader accessibility. And the sustain on missing stuff is strong enough.

And Nautilus/Sejuani not having decent ganks early? Wut? Nautilus has CC on 4 of his 5 abilities, ffs.

Knight DevoutNov 25, 20142 votes

Yes, but take Sejuani. A knock up and a slow.

Lee Sin? Elise? They all have 6 abilities by then, Lee has an AoE Slow and Attack Speed reduction, Elise already has a stun.

Sure, in later stages of the game the fact that they have more frequent cc and a higher health pool makes them better cc machine. But what I meant is that when an Elise ganks early she usually brings enough cc to take a kill, especially if she has red. Same with lee. Both have sustains in their, kit , either damage mitigation (spiderlings and safeguard) and lifesteal (skittering frenzy and iron will). And with that sustain they can afford Stalker for the slow, or Sabre for the damage.

So early game there is no reason to them having the superior sustain , unless they were somehow worse than tanks in lategame, but again, that's not the case. Arguably some midgame junglers can be worse than tanks, but that's not an universal rule.

MarenjiiNov 25, 20143 votes

Yes, but take Sejuani. A knock up and a slow.

Lee Sin? Elise? They all have 6 abilities by then, Lee has an AoE Slow and Attack Speed reduction, Elise already has a stun.

Sure, in later stages of the game the fact that they have more frequent cc and a higher health pool makes them better cc machine. But what I meant is that when an Elise ganks early she usually brings enough cc to take a kill, especially if she has red. Same with lee. Both have sustains in their, kit , either damage mitigation (spiderlings and safeguard) and lifesteal (skittering frenzy and iron will). And with that sustain they can afford Stalker for the slow, or Sabre for the damage.

So early game there is no reason to them having the superior sustain , unless they were somehow worse than tanks in lategame, but again, that's not the case. Arguably some midgame junglers can be worse than tanks, but that's not an universal rule.

You need to keep up. lee lost his ASPD slow. Also knock ups are better than stuns.

Knight DevoutNov 25, 20142 votes

Oh, right, but he still has an AoE slow ,and it's better in the jungle since his passive .

And knock ups aren't always better than stuns. Early game no one has tenacity except other tanks who go 21 in defense. And I was just saying that early game, during ganks where the max number of people is 2v3 or 3v2, the tools those junglers have still provide enough cc for a kill. It's not like Sejuani or Naut can do a total lockdown at level 3, while Lee and elise already accessed a broader variety of tools and + have sustain. If we even consider junglers like pantheon , they are also more menacing in terms of damage.

MarenjiiNov 25, 20142 votes

Oh, right, but he still has an AoE slow ,and it's better in the jungle since his passive .

And knock ups aren't always better than stuns. Early game no one has tenacity except other tanks who go 21 in defense. And I was just saying that early game, during ganks where the max number of people is 2v3 or 3v2, the tools those junglers have still provide enough cc for a kill. It's not like Sejuani or Naut can do a total lockdown at level 3, while Lee and elise already accessed a broader variety of tools and + have sustain. If we even consider junglers like pantheon , they are also more menacing in terms of damage.

Trailblazer gives sustain in the jungle, it is perfectly fine. A jungler not having sustain is no longer an issue. At level 3 Sej and Naut have more CC than Elise, and Lee Sin. And can provide lock down for a kill just as much as Elise, and more so than Lee Sin.

Also Lee is a terrible example to use. His very existence warps the pool of viable junglers. He is badly in need of nerfs (but muh LCSBIGPLAYS).

Knight DevoutNov 25, 20142 votes

Oh well, not arguing against that. Just saying that , if we consider lee balanced, Trailblazer could help tank junglers more to get at his level.

Consider that since Lee can afford to ditch trailblazer for other jungler items, he will have either more damage or a really strong slow.

MarenjiiNov 25, 20142 votes

Oh well, not arguing against that. Just saying that , if we consider lee balanced, Trailblazer could help tank junglers more to get at his level.

Consider that since Lee can afford to ditch trailblazer for other jungler items, he will have either more damage or a really strong slow.

But we're not considering him balanced. Why change an item because an OP jungler is still OP?

Kowe The EwokNov 25, 20141 votes

Trailblazer is not the strongest. It's simply must have.

These two don't equal each other.

It just means that many junglers have become horribly unviable unless the take it to SURVIVE the jungle.

Junglers who can freely choose their smite due to inbuild sustain (Warwick, Xin, Nunu...) will close to always choose another SMite, since both duelling Smites are MUCH better.

QuephaNov 25, 20142 votes

sejuani has to pick the farming smite while her opponents can pick the dueling smite OH BOY I SURE LIKE RUNNING LIKE A SCARED BABY FROM THE ENEMY IN MY OWN JUNGLE

Bears Dont CareNov 25, 20142 votes

At least tank junglers have CC. Poor Evelyn needs a trailblazer and she has no CC out of her ultimate which is a mediocre slow.

MarenjiiNov 25, 20141 votes

Tank junglers can't duel, or counterjungle anyway. They excel in lockdown during their ganks, and should be ganking heavily, which Blasting Smite helps with.

Knight DevoutNov 25, 20142 votes

Exactly my thought. If Ranger's Trailblazer proves to be too weak in its intended niche (keeping tanks healthy to soak damage during ganks), it should be buffed in that specific niche, but it shouldn't be pushed into other directions.

Kowe The EwokNov 25, 20141 votes

Sadly they can't "gank heavily", even with Blasting smite the jungle has become much tougher. Most tank jungler rely on relatively long cooldown abilities to clear the jungle. Due to increased monster health breakpoints are off now and many tank junglers lack about 4s CD to use their clear ability twice on teh same camp.

This doesn't sound like much saying it like that, but in actual gameplay that's a lot of additional damage dealt to you.

MarenjiiNov 25, 20141 votes

Sadly they can't "gank heavily", even with Blasting smite the jungle has become much tougher. Most tank jungler rely on relatively long cooldown abilities to clear the jungle. Due to increased monster health breakpoints are off now and many tank junglers lack about 4s CD to use their clear ability twice on teh same camp.

This doesn't sound like much saying it like that, but in actual gameplay that's a lot of additional damage dealt to you.

As a tank jungler you should he using your CC heavy skillset to gank often. If you already have both buffs, then you should be ganking any lane open to a gank. Camps beating you up should not be too much of a problem, unless you are farming harder than you should be.

sejuani has to pick the farming smite while her opponents can pick the dueling smite OH BOY I SURE LIKE RUNNING LIKE A SCARED BABY FROM THE ENEMY IN MY OWN JUNGLE

CC them and have your lanes collaspes on them?

CoolKnightSTNov 25, 20141 votes

I can agrea on the mana regeneration problem from item 1039 . I was really supprised I runned into mana problems with a Nunu . He rarely use mana so I can understand the feeling for junglers that really use it.

In theory the mana hungry junglers should smite blue buff so they can regain the mana they lost. But whe all known it's all about using smite on the red buff & the birds.

Kowe The EwokNov 25, 20141 votes

At least he can grab attackspeed runes and abuse his passive :/ Others don't have that luck. But yea, I agree.

CoolKnightSTNov 25, 20141 votes

In the pre jungle changes the asp was indeed usefull. Now I felt it became more situational. You can snowball a wave 2 times now rather than one. That actualy a hugh dps differents if you max it first. I'm not really sure but it's possible that it improves his clearing now more than with asp.