Zyra's plants can't attack towers/inhibs/nexus

Trash MammaI·Sep 22, 2015·3 votes·1,034 views

Heimer's turrets can.

Why?

Her plants don't last long. Get 1 shot by towers Don't do nearly as much damage as heimers towers

I don't get it?

At most in a real time scenario she can only set 2 plants to siege a tower/nexus while heimer can easily set 3 down to rape them.

I get she's not suppose to be like him in terms of tower taking power but cmon...it gets kinda annoying being the only one alive and trying to take an inhib or tower but your plants just sit there..doing nothing

8 Comments

VekknaSep 22, 20154 votes

The power gap between Zyra and Heimer is pretty insulting. Playing this matchup in lane it becomes very, very apparent how big of a disadvantage Zyra has. Heimer has better mana sustain, better health sustain, better base stats, higher uptime on turrets, smarter turrets, higher damage turrets, and faster-attacking turrets, all while being able to have many more turrets on the ground consistently. If you put a plant in range of a turret, the turret will kill the plant in around 2 plant attacks.

Even without turrets, Heimer annihilates Zyra. All it takes is a single upgraded rocket wave, and he 1-shots her. At max rank it does over 1600 base damage plus 324% AP if hit by every rocket. It's just stupid.

A Miss FortuneSep 22, 20152 votes

You forgot to mention that at least Heimer has a passive, and at least his abilities don't have 2 second delays.

VekknaSep 22, 20151 votes

Thanks for the reminder =P

But seriously, my list was nowhere near exhaustive. Kitten of Evil made a good point about the aoe root, which is situationally very strong, even if it is only fucking 1.75 seconds after 5 ranks.

MisterHealYoGirlSep 22, 20153 votes

I think their disposability is exactly why they can't push towers. You regenerate seeds a lot faster than the Donger can get turrets, and by using his turrets to push down towers, he gives up a lot of his lane presence until he can replenish his Fortress of Solitude. Zyra doesn't really lose anything by spending a few plants, since when both abilities are maxed, she can fill up completely in the time it takes the Donger to get even one turret back.

VekknaSep 22, 20152 votes

Yeah, not really. Heimer's spare parts do have a longer CD than seeds, but it's nowhere near double.

Heimer: Recharge Time: 24 / 23 / 22 / 21 / 20 Max CDR: 12

Zyra: Recharge Time: 16.7 / 15.4 / 14.1 / 12.9 / 11.7 Max CDR: 7

You're right that Zyra's plants are "disposable" because they're short duration, weak, short range, and (still) stupid as fuck. They're also very large, very obvious, and very loud. By comparison, Heimer's turrets are only remotely dangerous-looking when they shoot the blue beam for 45% of his AP.

Spawn timer aside, Zyra's plants cost way more mana than it does for Heimer. It costs Zyra 75-95 mana to spawn a thornspitter, and it only costs Heimer a whopping 20. He can drop all 3 turrets from his reserve at rank 5 for less than it costs for Zyra to spawn a single plant at level 2.

My point is that there's no special, bizarre distinction here that explains why Zyra's plants are so much worse. Her burst isn't higher. Her range isn't higher. Her sustain damage isn't higher. Her scaling isn't higher. Her base damages aren't higher. She's not more durable. She isn't less mana reliant. She's not faster.

There is literally nothing Zyra can do that Heimer can't do better outside of lucky or very well-planned wombos with a Yasuo. Even then, a Yasuo would rather have a Malphite for a wombo since Malph's ulti is longer range and is actually guaranteed to both hit and knock up. As much as I love Zyra, there's no purpose for her to exist while Heimer's around.

Kitten of EvilSep 22, 20151 votes

Well, Zyra offers more utility, CC, and multi-enemy disengage with her E, ult, and W+E. Heimer's E is hard to land, and if you R+E for the linear stun, you've given up a huge source of damage (R+Q). As a support or utility mage there are good reasons to pick Zyra over Heimer, but if you want pushing power or damage, Heim is better.

In a typical mid-lane, you don't want to pick Zyra into Heimer, of course. Poke mages (Xerath, Lux, Vel) do way better.

MisterHealYoGirlSep 22, 20151 votes

If we were playing 'league of pets', this would be true. Zyra's plants are worse than Heimer's turrets. But she has a lot of AoE damage and CC, and one of the best teamfight ults in the entire game. Zyra CCs better than Heimer, peels better than Heimer, teamfights better than Heimer, and skirmishes better than Heimer. She also has better vision control, and her plants are slightly less stupid now.