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I feel like this rune system only gets realized fully in the hands of limited champions

Moody P··47 votes·15,382 views

And what I mean by that is that no "modern" champions ever deviate from what they usually run. Pretty much any champion that has most of their needs fulfilled in-kit will take the same page. Always. When the big point of RR was to make more complex decisions with runes I think this is a large shortcoming of the system that people and Riot have just sort of accepted rather than worked to change.

I don't think I appreciated Runes Reforged until I realized how my champions could flex runes for various matchups. Like, Garen is a really simple guy, right? But you look at Garen or Darius mains in high elo and they all deviate on their page from game to game. Grasp, Phase Rush, Fleet. Singed, same thing; Aery or DH or Aftershock.

Compare this to more complex champs like Irelia. Conqueror. Every time it'll be conqueror. Every assassin will take Electrocute (granted because DH is ass now). Every tank will grab AFTERshock or Grasp (but only in top). And so on.

I still won't call RR a good thing but I've come to respect the choice it gives me to make pages around my champions in a per game basis. Its quite enjoyable to have that layer of strategy even if a lot of champions are still better off than me just spamming the one.

53 Comments

MrFawknSunshine19 votes

i still want the old runes back. i never liked the idea of rune reforged

Moody P10 votes

I agree. I really miss Stormraiders on my juggernauts and actually getting to run around in a fight for a few seconds

Iota Theta6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EjwvUTBK,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-03-15T01:47:49.926+0000)

I agree. I really miss Stormraiders on my juggernauts and actually getting to run around in a fight for a few seconds

I miss Courage of the Colossus and how it was a much more tank/melee focused over Aftershock because the shield scaled with max health and number of nearby enemies, and no damage pop.

Edit: I don’t really miss the old runes as much, just cause after a certain point they also became incredibly standardized for just stats. Some old masteries and keystones I miss though.

Iron Four Veigar1 votes

I used to love Stormraiders as Veigar, it was so good.... But yeah.... Mages using it was the reason it was reworked.

Mael Jade1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Iron Four Veigar,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EjwvUTBK,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-03-15T13:35:02.785+0000)

I used to love Stormraiders as Veigar, it was so good.... But yeah.... Mages using it was the reason it was reworked.

Who was supposed to use it, anyways? Only know of mages/rotation based champions and assassins...if they didnt take Thunderlords cause of some weird prefference

Moody P2 votes

It was REALLY good on juggernauts. Illaoi, Darius, Nasus, Garen etc all used it to fantastic effect. Assassins used it and a couple of mages as well

meanwhile shitty Phase Rush is only taken by 5 champs and they're all ranged mage tumors

Alzon3 votes

It actually made Mordekaiser a champion, too.

Mael Jade1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EjwvUTBK,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-03-15T14:09:12.904+0000)

It was REALLY good on juggernauts. Illaoi, Darius, Nasus, Garen etc all used it to fantastic effect. Assassins used it and a couple of mages as well

meanwhile shitty Phase Rush is only taken by 5 champs and they're all ranged mage tumors

still take it on Darius in other phase rush/heavy kiting ranged matchups. But yeah, I suppose burst bruiser that could not use different keystones were good with it.

Faustavian1 votes

I hated stormraiders on this guy's juggernauts.

Sincerely, squishy.

Azeranth1 votes

{quoted}

i still want the old runes back. i never liked the idea of rune reforged

Having a stat disadvantage because you weren't willing to pay money for runes was really ass

MrFawknSunshine2 votes

well the issue isnt the runes it was the fact it was gated by an IP cost.

all they had to do was remove the IP cost let every one have full runes and didnt need to do the rune reforged

Azeranth1 votes

{quoted}

well the issue isnt the runes it was the fact it was gated by an IP cost.

all they had to do was remove the IP cost let every one have full runes and didnt need to do the rune reforged

The idea of runes in general is just unfun in many ways. The more base stats you introduce the more valuable CDR and utility become. They're already super overtuned. Flat stats on runes make the game less fun. Shouldn't exist.

Salron2 votes

Why do people try to make this illogical point? If the issue was that it was P2W, then you make it free, you don't completely change the system

BigFBear1 votes

Old Runes but no Masteries. Just the old Runes like the todays stat Shards.

QancerClown1 votes

i still want the old runes back. i never liked the idea of rune reforged

I mean, new runes aren't bad, they are just limited. We need more of them and a lot of niche choices. So that we can think about something individual for us.

GigglesO12 votes

I miss being able to start with the stats that I want to start with.

Akali is SO HOT5 votes

I just miss my 1% crit chance

xDogMeatx3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EjwvUTBK,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-03-15T07:13:18.892+0000)

I just miss my 1% crit chance

i miss my 0% chance yet somehow crits a minion twice.

Daddy Ants1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EjwvUTBK,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-03-15T07:13:18.892+0000)

I just miss my 1% crit chance

I don't.

Getting RNG'ed by a 1% chance wasn't fun.

Velasan1 votes

{quoted}

I don't.

Getting RNG'ed by a 1% chance wasn't fun.

May sound silly, but I liked the 1% crit chance for the animation change when attacking. Every champion has a crit animation. Like Rammus does this cool headbutt spin thing. I think Garen might literally punch the enemy champion.

If I recall Bard and Velkoz also have some pretty epic crit animations.

SomeOneButNoOne4 votes

I miss full lethality gp. Full crit damage trynd. Full crit damage gp. Spell vamp on vlad instead of ap, or ms instead of ap. Still, I miss full crit dmg urf gameplay :c

BoilTheOil4 votes

I think keystones need to be removed its just who can synergis the most with it.

FSRER3 votes

Indeed, only a few champs are able to fully use runes reforged. Best example? Draven, a hyper damage early-mid-late game champion who can literally use every rune there is, from dark harvest to aftershock while we see champs like, lets say ryze, only being able to take phase rush and maybe electrocute to be viable.

The23rdGamer4 votes

Ryze can also do Aftershock really well :)

You could argue that he can run Kleptomancy or Spellbook as well but those are probably kinda meh picks. Aftershock Ryze is fairly good though.

Flawless Fetus1 votes

Really? I was a Draven main for the longest time and recently put him down bc he doesn't synergize well with any keystones. He can use a lot decently, but a lot of adcs have a rune they're dominant with. Draven does not :(

On My Kill List2 votes

are you just here fishing for upvotes from riot bots?

TwitchInMyPants1 votes

[{quoted}](name=On My Kill List,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EjwvUTBK,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-03-15T02:17:38.528+0000)

are you just here fishing for upvotes from riot bots?

Dude you posted in the thread of one of the most active critics I've seen on these boards

Him praising Riot is a breath of fresh air

Moody P2 votes

I don't know if I would call this praise

Its like a fifty fifty. I like that my champions can actually utilize the system well but it's still too available to outliers who have extreme synergy with certain runes

General Matty2 votes

Runes Reforged is still aids but at least it's somewhat interesting

FSRER4 votes

It is more interesting only because the older runes have been there for way too long. Other than that, runes reforged has caused only troubles

IAmTheLego2 votes

What I miss mostly about old runes is that if I'm vs a Zed, I tend to go full armor runes, or full Mr if vs a Diana or full AP if I don't feel threatened.

But ever since runes reforged came by, it caused nothing but problems. Especially that infamous too much damage.

Serika Zero4 votes

You can still pick 12 armor vs zed for example. Add to that bone plating and you will hardly die. But you choose not to.

Cherysse2 votes

My problem with the new runes is that it cuases champs that depends on stats to be forced into a set of runes. By example if you are a mage or an assasin you are going to take Sorcery + Domination 90% of the time, because those 2 are the ones that grant the most offensive stats.

Runes shouldn't grant AD, AP, Armor or Magic Resist. It forces their users into them because of their roles. In that way I can't go full inspiration without loosing a shit ton of damage capacity, and precision is only viable for certain cases due to the attack speed focus. In the other hand the tank runes are sub-par compared to the damage runes that scale through the whole game, the only ones that grant tank stats are quite limited, with you getting +15 defenses from conditioning and +150 hp from excesive growth at best. Revitalize base bonus is quite weak, and fountain of health doesn't have a base scaling. The only good resolve runes are the most offensive ones; Shield Bash and Demolition, they are quite good.

Also Keystones shouldn't grant stats either (except for Grasp), but Aftershock should grant % damage reduction, and Conqueror should be reworked, the stats it grants have shown to be problematic. Gathering Storm, Eye Collection, Transcendence, Water Flow, and Absolute Focus should be reworked.

If you remove the stats, make the runes more interactive and work with other mechanics players wouldn't be forced into a set of runes because of their role. In that way I could go Brand with Glacial withouth loosing a shit ton of damage, and so on

Zullar2 votes

I think the old rune system was better.

Having a choice between flat AD or scaling AD was an interesting choice.

Now you are more or less locked into a runeset for most champions. If Leona then Aftershock. There's no choice anymore.

Saevum2 votes

I miss the movement speed quints. They made the phage purchase more juicy for early trades.

DracosKasu1 votes

The problem with the new rune systemis mainly there is too many rune add up adaptive dmg, when there any in the tier you alway have cd and movement speed to back you up for spam more dmg then you have the defensive tree which is basically dmg reduction but even there you can found way to add up more dmg.

Cyrosi1 votes

I can see why they did it, but at the same time, I wish we at least had more options to choose from. Is there any mage that doesn't run the arcane tree? The only area with any options, ironically, is support. You can run several trees there depending on who you are.

Serika Zero1 votes

So as an assassin, what else you Wana take?

There's a few other viable choices such as: phase rush, but few assassins overkill that badly to lack a damage rune. Lethal tempo, only if they go for spear of sojin as first or second item. and glacial argument if you consider ahri an assassin.

But most assassins need extra dmg in their kit, and they get that from runes. aery does to little, comet can be avoided. dark harvest is shit outside of aram or khartus. klepto is fine, but most of them are melee and low dmg on inspiration tree.

Frostfel1 votes

I mean based on what Riot said they originally were also supposed to add a bunch of runes and maybe a new tree to add more diversity after the initial release. They had maybe added 2-3 and removed at least 1. I'd be fine with current runes if they expanded it rather than keep it at the same pool size.

Vulkus I1 votes

Gangplank is the same way, I enjoy being able to take different runes for different match ups and strategies. Typically I go Klepto for the money in boring/winning lanes, Grasp if I want to be a dick, and Fleet for those lanes where I get trashed.

BlueSmurf20181 votes

i feel like the old runes should ony cost 30 IP per rune no matter how good, and 100 IP per purple rune, it only makes sense, but paying 1000 IP just for 20 hp? yea hell no. I hated the old rune system because it only rewarded players with, you know every champion in the game, and i woulda been fine with it if they just made all the runes cheeper smh

Sir Saltarin1 votes

Laughs in MissFortune MissFortune MissFortune MissFortune MissFortune MissFortune MissFortune MissFortune

Depending of the matchups I can go full lethality with DH or Comet. I can go the PtA build with BotrK rush, also FleetF wroks well into mage supps and Conqueror against tanks. Even some cheesy strats with Clepto work.

Velasan1 votes

I think it largely accomplishes the goal of having different rune choices. The issue you're describing has more to do with how well those choices serve a selection of champions. Currently the new runes are a combination of both old runes and masteries. The combination of the two carries a lot of strength with it.

A lot of people don't appreciate that a lot of the new runes give a high amount of value. If you were to give a gold value to some of the new runes it would be extremely high. You take the wrong runes around mid game you could be looking at 3k gold of value wasted.

Take for example Gathering Storm. Every 10 minutes it increases in gold value. On the old system you would need a full set of scaling AP quints, glyphs, seals, and marks to reach 50 scaling AP by level 18. Now you still get that (gets up to the same level at 30 minutes), but it's on just 1 rune. An amplifying tome costs 435 gold and gives 20 AP. So, by comparison even the first activation of storm is granting around 174g worth of stats (I'm not good with math, but slightly under half) and each activation thereafter gives you even more. At the full 30 min mark it adds up to 2 amp tomes worth and another 8 AP or around 1044g of stats, again from just one rune. The entire rune page gives thousands of gold worth of stats and if it doesn't suit your character well then that's a big problem.

Same thing with ultimate cooldown reduction and spell vamp. How much gold value would you put behind those? This has been the biggest problem on tanks where the large majority of rune choices don't serve them very well. Any power they do have is currently hard wired into how powerful Aftershock (and if they can use it) is because the rest of the page is pretty meh, with the exception of Bone Plating which has been nerfed multiple times.

5StackUltOneShot1 votes

Im still happy I decided to main Darius because im one of the lucky few that has amazing amounts of options.

Hail of blades, Conqueror, Phase rush, Fleet of footwork, Grasp of the undying.

But then look at champions like Mundo.

The fuck is he gonna take besides Grasp

PaffWasTaken1 votes

Tbh, Riot should stop trying to make the RR system deeper by reworking keystones, runes and trees and should just make it broader. When there's barely any options to choose from just like now, everyone will just pick the best option every single time, even if some others brings different pros and cons, they'll just stick to one since the roster of choice doesn't allow much differences between them. Everything just ranges either from "more damage in X situation". "more resistance in X situation" or "better scaling in X situation", and the actual "choice" that you have is between those three options, since the X situation who's the most profitable for you is almost always the same based on your champion. To actually bring choice consequences that require decision making in the RR system, it should at least be 1.5 or 2 times bigger, including the amount of keystones: it was a major problem ever since implementation that some champions synergises extremely well to some keystones (to the point certain ones like Predator seemed to be entirely made just for a single champion, Hecarim in this case) while some other champions had little to no synergy at all, and all this was caused by the still extremely small amount of keystones.

VoraciousX1 votes

I dunno, I've had a lot of different rune setups that worked with Kat. I take Grasp on her sometimes into tough matchups. I've taken Electrocute, DH, Conqueror before it was even popular once vs AD matchups that I knew would rush maw. I feel like it's not Riot that is at fault for people not making multiple choices, but other players. They see what's the most commonly used, and everyone uses it, rather than try new things.

ModCaptainMårvelous1 votes

I think it comes down to how certain champs just can't make as good use of other runes.

The most "successful" champs with RR are ones who don't really have one rune that synergies SO WELL with them. Like with Darius he works well with Conq but he's not really an autoattacker. He could go grasp for more defense. He could go phase rush for more speed, blah blah blah. There's variety because Darius isn't overwhelmingly good with one rune.

But some champs just work so well with ONE thing they end up having to take it. Assassins don't really need predator and DH was nerfed so elec is about the only thing that works with an assassin. Tanks need to survive longer so there's really no need to take anything but aftershock/grasp.

Honestly I think the best way to fix it is to add more keystones, remove the biggest general keystones (Aftershock for something else) or improve minor runes so it's more valuable to various champ types to try other pages. It's still pretty diverse but there are some clear gaps of archetypes that got left behind.

The Bad Touch1 votes

The number of builds was straight up gutted by runes reforged.

It was a TERRIBLE system designed with the approval of the guy who killed WoW.

LoL got the WoW treatment, That's all.

Mordepool1 votes

They should move away from too Many Power sources non-intrinsic to Champion kits. Items are a way to reward good play in game, through farm or kills.

Runes as is just make champion balance impossible

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