PBE nidalee changes. pounce reset vs hunted targets COMPLETELY REMOVED

SwiftKitten88·Jul 13, 2016·5 votes·1,497 views

killing a unit in cougar forms resets pounce cooldown to 3 seconds from 3.5/3/2.5/2 (at lvls 1/6/11/16) pouncing to hunted target slows the target by 50% for .5 seconds changed from resets pounce cooldown to 3 seconds from 3.5/3/2.5/2 (at lvls 1/6/11/16)

Um riot.. i know this is the first day of PBE and these are experimental, but... seriously?

what are you TRYING to do? it a SLIGHT buff pre 6 when jungling vs jungle mobs and when CSing in lane

compared to LAST patch but even so.. WTF is she supposed to do vs players now?

she CAN'T get out AT ALL now.. ZERO pounce reset vs hunted targets means.. she is stuck in melee form with no escape for FIVE SECONDS!!!!

the ENTIRE .5 seconds of the slow is taking up by your combo of takedown and swipe. and now your stuck in melee range.. with no abilties.. no escape.. and only auto attacks as an AP champ with one of the lowest base health and health scaling 48 base AD and one of the lowest attacks speeds in the game

WHAT ON EARTH DO U WANT US TO DO??

nidalee rework was designed to allow her to reset her pounce to TWO second after he pounced in or killed a target so she could farm in lane.. so she could escape.. or so she could pounce after them if they dashed when she landed.

now i pounce in.. and i am stuck there for 5 seconds...

nidalee isnt she ISN'T a diver... if she STAYS in melee range after she pounces in and does her combo she DIES.

PLUS unlike diana.. she cant pounce in if she DOES'NT land a spear.. whiel diana can still use her ulti even if she doesn't use her Q her ulti just goes on cooldown.

31 Comments

ShigureJul 13, 20162 votes

This is going to completely kill her early clear a d chase potential. Nidalee's early clear is completely reliant on placing traps and picking up pounce resets from proper placement and removing the reset entirely means a huge damage loss overall and she will no longer be able to clear effectively. On top of this her sticking potential (which is highly reliant on hitting a small slow moving skillshot mind you) is now gone as almost doubling the CD on pounce in optimal situations means people are escaping you more often then not. Nidalee has already been pushed heavily into an early game jungler who falls off hard late. What is she now when her early game is bad too?

ValexforJul 13, 20162 votes

Well, guess you should start to poke the enemy in human form before yo ugo in on a full hp inster tanky dude here and kill him with just one combo. Remember her spear throw (or whatever it's called)? It's supposedly one if not the strongest non ultimate poke in the game. I can understand getting angry for a nerf, but please, at least understand that some times they are more than deserved...

Now, let the hate from angry mains come...

SwiftKitten88Jul 13, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Well, guess you should start to poke the enemy in human form before yo ugo in on a full hp inster tanky dude here and kill him with just one combo. Remember her spear throw (or whatever it's called)? It's supposedly one if not the strongest non ultimate poke in the game. I can understand getting angry for a nerf, but please, at least understand that some times they are more than deserved...

"poke an enemy in human form"

um, have you even FACED a nid in the past 2 years?

nidalee isnt a "poke" champ... the MAJORITY of her damage comes from her takedown. when she lands the spear she needs to pounce in takedown swipe and pounce out.. that is her TRADE.

nidalee donest just pounce in for the kill, she pounces in to deal damage... then she gets back out.

she has been that way since her rework.

ValexforJul 13, 20162 votes

I did face her, and I repeat: you can poke, so do it. NIda has far more than she needs in her kit, so people usually forget, but her poke is incredibly strong. Also "her damage comes from her takedown" doesn't mean shit, you just can't thro a spear, go in for 60% of the target hp and go back safely while healing everything you might have received, that's just not fair. Before you talk about renekton doing the same: renekton, unless he's got full rage, won't even go near a nidalee's combo damage and his heal is also weaker if not empowered. Also you said it yourself: you throw spear then go in for the damage, so now, instead of doing it like this, you throw a spear go in for the damage, they didn't nerf her damage so it's not like you will deal less damage and they will survive with more ease, also I repeat: you can still poke, no one is telling you not to, nidalee's spears hurt, a lot. If you talk about ganks: what's the problem here? if you don't kill him fast you can still go away or siege his tower or wait those 5 seconds and jump on him again if he didn't back or do whatever you want. I can understand the reset on a kill (it makes sense) but on an hunted target not so much, it's pretty much like saying "this skill has 3 sec cd instead of 5", gie it 3 sec cd in the first place if you wanted it like that, no?.

ShigureJul 14, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Well, guess you should start to poke the enemy in human form before yo ugo in on a full hp inster tanky dude here and kill him with just one combo. Remember her spear throw (or whatever it's called)? It's supposedly one if not the strongest non ultimate poke in the game. I can understand getting angry for a nerf, but please, at least understand that some times they are more than deserved...

Now, let the hate from angry mains come...

OK so first things first. You generally have less AP then standard AP champions since your jungle (less gold, have to build runic first and have to run strength of the ages losing out on the magic pen from the other two trees). Nidalees spear is among the strongest poke in the game IF you hit it at maximum range. The major thing here is it is extremely easy to dodge due to being a slow moving skillshot that is blocked by minions. On top of this she only has 1 ranged ability (traps don't count as they deal pitiful damage and are easily noticed) compared to other siege champions such as Lux who can poke with multiple abilities at once.

Also her damage is nowhere near high enough to one shot someone unless you are ridiculously fed and they have built no MR/HP to deal with you. In her current iteration She is similar to how riot intended ekko to be as an assassin who is highly mobile in fights and deals small bursts of damage against priority targets. These changes do nothing but make doing this much harder for competent nidalee players (those who can reliably hit spears).

ValexforJul 14, 20161 votes

I was pretty much talking of when you've already got runic echo (runic is usually enough to deal massive damage by itself early on and it's better than some lane items for it's price), but while what you say is right, her q is indeed quite easy to dodge when you see it coming, you don't see her q coming all the times, especially in the jungle, where there are a lot of blind spots (if you invade you will probably have a ward there, so you can see the enemy jungler) so it's quite easy to hit at a good enough range. Also she's not a siege mage, but rather an ap assassin, so you can't really compare her with lux, you would need a diana/lb/ekko. Anyway: nida already has incredible clears, is incredibly mobile in the jungle and has insane burst (more than most junglers) and good sustain in the jungle so giving her even more mobility is not really a great idea (we all have league of mobility creeps, right?), also, you seem to be thinking I would completely take the reset away from her but I wouldn't, what I am saying is: it's fine if she has a reset on kills, but it's a bit overkill if all she has to do is hit you with a skill and can get up to 3 resets in one fight (traps, spear and kill), and that's what they are going to do, you still have a reset on kills, but not on hunted targets, it' just more fair: assassins should all be based around kill resets, if they fail to kill you, they gotta die themselves, that's the only healthy kind of assassin, not "jump in, take 60% hp, jump out, wait 4 sec, jump in, kill, still full hp: GG OUTPLAYED GET REKT N00BZ" which seems to be how people think assassins should be, that's not balanced, not healthy nor fair..

Also: whoever tells you you can't jungle with other keystone is just lying. I've jungled with Thunderlord, Fervor and Grasp (also with bond of stone) and I can assure you strenght of the ages is not a necessity, if you want to invade or gank a lot, other keystone are far better (i've played thunderlord, grasp and bond of stone on sejuani, she takes SO MUCH damage since her first clear is so slow and she has no natural sustain so I can assure you anyone can do it, I managed to take the same 5 camps I could take with strenght of the ages with health per level masteries instead of armor, I was just a bit lower on health, but needed to back anyway). Try other keystones, you might find yourself to recall a bit sooner (I don't think so since nida has decent sustain, she shouldn't really need to recall too much, I personally am not good enough to play her so I didn't try her yet, but if sejuani can do it, pretty much anyone can do it), but strenght of the ages is far from a "must pick", it helps only in the first clear, before the first back, and even then it will just be a slight help, it won't make the difference between having to recall at the 5th or 6th camp. At least I never managade to take one more camp because I had strenght of the ages instead of say Grasp (again, talking about sejuani who has 0 sustain and is slow af in her first clear).

On another note: you will hardly find an opponent full hp and with good mr early game both in lane and in the jungle (unless you talk about top lane), and nida is incredibly similiar to lee sin: her better playstile would be to invade or gank and get the first kills so she snowballs and starts putting all the enemy team behind with constant ganks and invades, and since you can literally invade at level 2 (taking q + w) you can easily find an enemy jungler with half hp at his 2nd/3rd camp (nida has some of the, if not THE, fastest clearings of all the junglers so after buff you can invade and take the kill easily, obviously ward beforehand and be sure you actually can invade), which is enough to get first blood on him and make you snowball like crazy. Now you might argue about nida going against champs like shyvana/udyr/lee who can easily fight her if she tries to invade, but those kinda champions are great duelists early on and have enough damage to fight you and possibily kill you (not at level 2 usually) and are champs designed around searching the opponent and making his life miserable by killing him over and over and stealing ALL of his jungle, and then there are lee and elise, who are exactly like nida: they have strong invades and ganks with decent clears so if you fight them, you play on an "even ground" where they are stronger than you early (lee's and elise's damage is just more consistent than nida's especially early on).

Oh btw, I hope it' doesn't seem like an attack, I want to actually have a conversation on this to better my game knowledge too if I'm mistaken.

ShigureJul 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I was pretty much talking of when you've already got runic echo (runic is usually enough to deal massive damage by itself early on and it's better than some lane items for it's price), but while what you say is right, her q is indeed quite easy to dodge when you see it coming, you don't see her q coming all the times, especially in the jungle, where there are a lot of blind spots (if you invade you will probably have a ward there, so you can see the enemy jungler) so it's quite easy to hit at a good enough range. Also she's not a siege mage, but rather an ap assassin, so you can't really compare her with lux, you would need a diana/lb/ekko. Anyway: nida already has incredible clears, is incredibly mobile in the jungle and has insane burst (more than most junglers) and good sustain in the jungle so giving her even more mobility is not really a great idea (we all have league of mobility creeps, right?), also, you seem to be thinking I would completely take the reset away from her but I wouldn't, what I am saying is: it's fine if she has a reset on kills, but it's a bit overkill if all she has to do is hit you with a skill and can get up to 3 resets in one fight (traps, spear and kill), and that's what they are going to do, you still have a reset on kills, but not on hunted targets, it' just more fair: assassins should all be based around kill resets, if they fail to kill you, they gotta die themselves, that's the only healthy kind of assassin, not "jump in, take 60% hp, jump out, wait 4 sec, jump in, kill, still full hp: GG OUTPLAYED GET REKT N00BZ" which seems to be how people think assassins should be, that's not balanced, not healthy nor fair..

Also: whoever tells you you can't jungle with other keystone is just lying. I've jungled with Thunderlord, Fervor and Grasp (also with bond of stone) and I can assure you strenght of the ages is not a necessity, if you want to invade or gank a lot, other keystone are far better (i've played thunderlord, grasp and bond of stone on sejuani, she takes SO MUCH damage since her first clear is so slow and she has no natural sustain so I can assure you anyone can do it, I managed to take the same 5 camps I could take with strenght of the ages with health per level masteries instead of armor, I was just a bit lower on health, but needed to back anyway). Try other keystones, you might find yourself to recall a bit sooner (I don't think so since nida has decent sustain, she shouldn't really need to recall too much, I personally am not good enough to play her so I didn't try her yet, but if sejuani can do it, pretty much anyone can do it), but strenght of the ages is far from a "must pick", it helps only in the first clear, before the first back, and even then it will just be a slight help, it won't make the difference between having to recall at the 5th or 6th camp. At least I never managade to take one more camp because I had strenght of the ages instead of say Grasp (again, talking about sejuani who has 0 sustain and is slow af in her first clear).

On another note: you will hardly find an opponent full hp and with good mr early game both in lane and in the jungle (unless you talk about top lane), and nida is incredibly similiar to lee sin: her better playstile would be to invade or gank and get the first kills so she snowballs and starts putting all the enemy team behind with constant ganks and invades, and since you can literally invade at level 2 (taking q + w) you can easily find an enemy jungler with half hp at his 2nd/3rd camp (nida has some of the, if not THE, fastest clearings of all the junglers so after buff you can invade and take the kill easily, obviously ward beforehand and be sure you actually can invade), which is enough to get first blood on him and make you snowball like crazy. Now you might argue about nida going against champs like shyvana/udyr/lee who can easily fight her if she tries to invade, but those kinda champions are great duelists early on and have enough damage to fight you and possibily kill you (not at level 2 usually) and are champs designed around searching the opponent and making his life miserable by killing him over and over and stealing ALL of his jungle, and then there are lee and elise, who are exactly like nida: they have strong invades and ganks with decent clears so if you fight them, you play on an "even ground" where they are stronger than you early (lee's and elise's damage is just more consistent than nida's especially early on).

Oh btw, I hope it' doesn't seem like an attack, I want to actually have a conversation on this to better my game knowledge too if I'm mistaken.

Yep i know you are by no means attacking me with this an its the same thing for me. just putting my point of view on the topic at hand.

So your first paragraph Yep agreed that it is easier to hit from FOW however at short to mid range which is where the vast majority of spears that land hit from have very low base damage (the further it travels the higher the base and scaling) so the spear itself deals very little damage and you are forced to all-in to deal a decent amount with your cougar form. The only real time that you will hit a max range spear from FOW is in a siege sitatuion and this is negated by simply dropping a ward over the wall.

The reset is there for kills yes, however in both the jungle and on champs the vast majoirity of the time, Nidalee cannot kill the target in one combo and needs a 2nd rotation of spells to finish them off. The pounce reset allowed her to do this if she managed to hit the spear however by removing this it makes it more difficult to do so as you are effectively giving them more time to escape which for a squishy assassin often leads to bad situations if you continue chasing. Traps very rarely do anything outside of your early clears as they are easily noticed and take time to arm so in almost every situation nidalee is getting her resets from Kills and spear hits.

I agree that assassins should not b able to burst people and get out easily but even in its current iteration nidalee cannot always do this as if she jumps into the enemy team she has to wait 3 seconds before the pounce resets to use a small dash to get away (375 range on regular pounce compared to 750 on hunted) compared to champions like Kha'Zix,/Katarina/Akali who will have a higher range dash which can be instantly used upon kill/assist or in the case of Zed whenever he feels like. Compared to these Nidalee's pounce is quite frankly bad unless you are doing an extended chase through the jungle where she is proccing her increased MS through bushes.

2nd paragraph Yes you can jungle without Strength of Ages. I myself have played numerous games as a jungle main testing different masteries with different champions however on Divers such as Lee Sin/Nidalee or Elise, it is almost a requirement as the added health pool in the mid game will save your life more often then not since you are in the thick of it whilst building little hp/reistances early on. In terms of Nid's sustain it is actually quite weak early on as your heal is the only form of sustain you have and it has a base heal of 45 on a 12 second cooldown until you start levelling it after level 9. In its current form this is somewhat remedied by her good clear speed as she can clear camps before they kill her, however this will most likely not be the same if this change goes live. Sejuani has much higher base stats, bonus armor, a short knockup and AoE %hp damage in comparison so in all honesty her clear is a hell of a lot safer then Nidalee's.

3rd Paragraph Basically the same thing. Her clear speed right now is good but it is by no means the quickest however once the pounce reset is removed her first clear will likely go up in time by an additional 15-20 seconds at minimum (if she manages to do a full clear) since her pounce totals for a large portion of her damage in the first few levels which is huge. Yeh champions like that can deal with her however very few of them are popular in pro play which is likely a large reason why she is so big in there. I feel its more a case where riot should be looking at buffing the unused champions instead of nerfing the best and doing the same to whoever pops up in their place over and over.

ValexforJul 14, 20162 votes

I see, btw about sejuani: you don't want to use your q a lot during clears though, the first one is a bit mandatory, or you'll straight up die at the 4th/5th camp (and even then you really need to hit all targets so that you can e and start w so that when w ends you will have e up and can use it again if needed). Aniway it's been a good talk and you proved that she does need those resets in most cases so I'm pretty sure that even if these changes do ship, if nida doesn't prove to be doing good enough, rito will buff her (probably her damage, they will never revert a shipped change >>), but I obviosly hope they won't ship them since they usually use "compensation" as an excuse to overbuff a champ they nerfed purposefully so that they could "compensate" them xD.

SwiftKitten88Jul 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I see, btw about sejuani: you don't want to use your q a lot during clears though, the first one is a bit mandatory, or you'll straight up die at the 4th/5th camp (and even then you really need to hit all targets so that you can e and start w so that when w ends you will have e up and can use it again if needed). Aniway it's been a good talk and you proved that she does need those resets in most cases so I'm pretty sure that even if these changes do ship, if nida doesn't prove to be doing good enough, rito will buff her (probably her damage, they will never revert a shipped change >>), but I obviosly hope they won't ship them since they usually use "compensation" as an excuse to overbuff a champ they nerfed purposefully so that they could "compensate" them xD.

i don't really have my hopes up..

ever since they threw her into the jungle nid has gone downhill. there is one good thing about if this nerf goes through. her winrate is going to drop so low they wont be able to ignore it. she already has the 2nd lowest winrate in the game in you take into account all elos only Ryze is lower and once people learn how to play him she is going to be dead last.

this is BEFORE the nerf.. on pbe

ShigureJul 14, 20162 votes

Things are about to get a whole lot worse. Yesterdays Nerf's were nothing compared to this

https://mobile.twitter.com/ricklessabandon/status/753680781382299648/photo/1

This is from ricklessabandon's twitter

SwiftKitten88Jul 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Things are about to get a whole lot worse. Yesterdays Nerf's were nothing compared to this

https://mobile.twitter.com/ricklessabandon/status/753680781382299648/photo/1

This is from ricklessabandon's twitter

yeah im clueless as to wtf is going on now...

ValexforJul 17, 20161 votes

I think they want to change nida into a full on ap assassin instead of an assassin-bruiser, at least that's what the changes seem to suggest. I don't really like them too much, but we know how rito likes to do things...

BlåbæretJul 13, 20162 votes

Is this a QQ post about Diana or wuts the deal? Super OP champ bro with 48% win rate.

LatetotheRaceJul 13, 20162 votes

"she CAN'T get out AT ALL now" If you're an assassin, and you fail to kill your target you should be punished. That's a nice mechanic most assassins should have right now, but don't. I wonder if this is a glimpse of the future for little monsters like Zed Leblanc ....

I don't know much about her farming though, so I won't talk about it. High risk high reward eh?

In all seriousness though, just get some sustainability. item 3027 item 3151 item 3116 or even item 3146 ?? Just throwing some ideas at you.

ShigureJul 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

"she CAN'T get out AT ALL now" If you're an assassin, and you fail to kill your target you should be punished. That's a nice mechanic most assassins should have right now, but don't. I wonder if this is a glimpse of the future for little monsters like ....

I don't know much about her farming though, so I won't talk about it. High risk high reward eh?

In all seriousness though, just get some sustainability. or even ?? Just throwing some ideas at you.

I'm completely fine with her not being able to escape once in but the real issue is this change really hurts her chase potential. A slow is nice and all but with it lasting 0.5sec it's nearly non existent and it's adding an additional 1.5seconds to her pounce on hunted targets in return. She's going to have a much harder time sticking to targets now.

The problem is that her very first clear will be affected the most. Sustain items like ROA or gunblade as you have mentioned are not built until after runic echoes and at this point her heal is meaningful enough to keep her healthy. On the first clear however Nidalee does not take it till level 3 (3 full camps) and it has a base heal of 45. Her issue will be she will have trouble on her first clears due to a highly reduced clear speed which is an issue for an already squishy jungler who is unlikely to be able to take enough hits to negate this. I think it's pretty likely Nidalee players will start running AD and/or Attack Speed runes to get through it.

LatetotheRaceJul 14, 20161 votes

Okay so two things. Wouldn't Rylai's really help a lot with chasing, not to mention gunblades active as well. You could also take GLP 800 instead to really beat em up. You also mentioned the first clear. Why isn't a good leash from bottom lane all you need? A smart support will mitigate all if not most damage taken, and that leaves you and the ADC to clear it quickly. Besides, there are several junglers that have problems on their first runs and still do fine later regardless.

ShigureJul 14, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Okay so two things. Wouldn't Rylai's really help a lot with chasing, not to mention gunblades active as well. You could also take GLP 800 instead to really beat em up. You also mentioned the first clear. Why isn't a good leash from bottom lane all you need? A smart support will mitigate all if not most damage taken, and that leaves you and the ADC to clear it quickly. Besides, there are several junglers that have problems on their first runs and still do fine later regardless.

Yes Rylais does help and it is core on her (standard build is Runic > Rylais > Zhonya/Abyssal) however you will not be finishing this until around 20minutes in at which point your power spike is over. Nidalee falls off hard after about 25minutes due to them pushing her so heavily into an early game role

Yes a good bot lane can leash the first camp well for you but the problem is the ones after that. Nidalees clear will be much slower and she will take much more damage then before because of this.

LatetotheRaceJul 14, 20161 votes

Have you been playing around with these changes on the pbe btw?

SwiftKitten88Jul 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Have you been playing around with these changes on the pbe btw?

i wish i had a pbe account.

besides this isnt really going to affect her while she is doing her jungle clear much. its goign to DESTROY her if she even tried to kill anyone. or rather anyone... who isn't tankly.. has half less than half hp.. is all alone... out in the open with no where to run to.

SwiftKitten88Jul 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

"she CAN'T get out AT ALL now" If you're an assassin, and you fail to kill your target you should be punished. That's a nice mechanic most assassins should have right now, but don't. I wonder if this is a glimpse of the future for little monsters like ....

I don't know much about her farming though, so I won't talk about it. High risk high reward eh?

In all seriousness though, just get some sustainability. or even ?? Just throwing some ideas at you.

first off nidalee has NEVER been able to one shot anyone from full hp unless she is CRAZY ahead.

nidalee relies on pounceing in and dealing damage and then getting out.. then pounceing in and dealing more damage then getting out.. and then pouncing in for the kill.

nid is NOT going to burst anyone down even if she lands a max range spear and pounces in. she isnt designed to do that. she is DESIGNED to land a spear poucne in and get out.

that was the ENTIRE point of her rework.

the ONLY thing left from her rework is the kitty form at lvl 1. and the "hunted" to pounce in.

which now really doesn't mean jack shit becuase you not GOING to pounce in anymore... EVER, because if u do.. your goign to DIE

before her rework her entire kit was based around her poke

spears did a LOT more than they do now traps proced in and AOE and revealed stelthed champs and had magic and armor pen heal healed for a lot more and cougar form had movement speed and + resistances

when he got her rework around 40% of her spear damage was removed and the mana her traps lost aoe and becuase %max hp (which was then destroyed during the "jungle" so now trap only proc hunted and deal 40 damage) and procing hunted on an enemy by landing a spear allowed you to pounce in use takedown and swipe and pounce out. her pounce reset was actually INITIALLY on her swipe (when u landed it on a champion) it was later moved to when she landed on a hunted target nidalee's attack damage and attack speed were also gutted after her rework becuase she had free farm in cougar form now and she was too strong in top lane takedown now deal a LOT less damage unless the target is hunted

you want to compare the damage from nids spear pre-rework nid to now? Q damage min 60 / 77.5 / 95 / 112.5 / 130 (+ 40% AP) from 55 / 95 / 140 / 185 / 230 (+65% AP) max 180 / 232.5 / 285 / 337.5 / 390 +(+120% AP) from 137 / 237 / 350 / 462 / 575 (+162.5% AP). Missile width reduced to 40 from 60. channel time increased from .125 to .25 seconds

pounce old damage was 125 / 175 / 225 (+40% AP).

traps old damage was 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260 (+40% AP). and lasted 4 min and gave a much larger vision when placed and the vison lasted 8 seocnds instead of 4 hey did aoe and they had 20/23/30/35/40% magic/armor pen

now they do 40 damage with .2 AP

swipe did 150 / 225 / 300 (+60% AP). now 70 / 130 / 190 / 250 (+45% AP)

here ENTIRE kit was chnaged so she would pounce in do her combo and pounce out

and now she CANT pounce in and pounce out.

and she CANT kill nayone with just spears or fight them in cougar form if hunted isnt proced

LatetotheRaceJul 14, 20161 votes

I think a lot of what you said is for another comment entirely. I just.... chill mate chill. The reason Nidalee doesn't need much damage/utility early is because she's a jungler. Think about it, she's not designed to fight most targets 1v1 at max hp for a reason. Why? Because she's gonna gank stuff. Quite honestly all of these various changes only strengthen that statement. I get that you want Nidalee to be viable as a fast jungle clearer, and strong ganker/engager, but that's not a healthy state for an assassin.

A solid design for an assassin is weak farm, and decent to strong kill potential. If you have a laner with some CC to help land that spear, it's almost guaranteed to be a good gank.

The Yetii RiderJul 13, 20162 votes

I seriously don't care. She's been too fast for too long. She still has the ridiculously low pounce CD for escaping when she's out of position. She doesn't need good jungle clears too.

Rip Nid out of the jungle and force her back into mid where she belongs.

AbyssphereJul 14, 20162 votes

This isn't going to put her back into mid though. She's not able to play mid lane right now and this hits lane Nidalee too.

I can't imagine the amount of buffs she'd need to work in lane again. She's taken sooooo many hits for her jungle.

The Yetii RiderJul 14, 20162 votes

Her jungle is toxic. Kindred is still doing fine after losing the strong early clears. Nid now has worse clears and less stickiness and escape power. That's a good thing. It gives her opponents more room to fight back.

SwiftKitten88Jul 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

This isn't going to put her back into mid though. She's not able to play mid lane right now and this hits lane Nidalee too.

I can't imagine the amount of buffs she'd need to work in lane again. She's taken sooooo many hits for her jungle.

surpisingly she wont need very many

all she would need is

javalin toss cast time reverted back to .125 second minimum damage reverted to 50 / 75 / 100 / 125 / 150. from 60 / 77.5 / 95 / 112.5 / 130 max damage reverted to 150 / 225 / 300 / 375 / 450 from 180 / 232.5 / 285 / 337.5 / 390

traps to be reverted back to 20 / 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 (+10 / 12 / 14 / 16 / 18% (+2% AP)% current health). plus thier old vision radius

pounce to reset to reverted 1.5 seconds when landing on a hunted target

base health increased back to 541 and HP per lvl back up to 90

thats it...

and then just for good measure.. they can COMPLETELY REMOVE hunted procing on jungle mobs. you want to weaken her clear after all these reverts? THAT will do it

Reaper SorakaJul 14, 20161 votes

increase the base damage on javelins so I can support again! It was like a blitz hook in disguise before.

warpenguin555Jul 13, 20161 votes

im split. im sick of nidalee in the lcs, but im also feeling this might be too hatsh

QuephaJul 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

it a SLIGHT buff pre 6 when jungling vs jungle mobs

wat the clear point of this nerf is to hit her early clear speed, that is 100% the primary purpose of this change.

MartyrofsandJul 17, 20161 votes

Oh my gosh you actually have to commit now instead of being able to jump in kill people and free jump out without giving a damn or fearing reprisal?

Oh wait it's pretty damn irrelevant when you can chunk your spear from a mile away doing a third of someones HP with every one and healing freely if they happen to land any form of damage on you.

Nidalee is cancer if riot deleted her nothing of value would be lost.