Boards›Gameplay

The inconsistencies and general misplacement of Invisibility and Camoflauge

Hibeki··1 votes·302 views

First off, lets go over the semantics part (which is rather important)

True Sight when dealing with this should be dealt with like in the movie Predator, where the predator has infrared vision.

Arnold S. Manages to camoflauge by putting cold mud all over his body to avoid the heat of his body giving him away. This makes sense.

Invisibility is something magically concealing your body (literally) while camoflauge is using the environment. Getting true sight will not change camoflauge because there is nothing about them that is actually keeping you from seeing them, its just your eyes do not pick up on it. it isn't until you are already close that you would notice someone camoflauged, which is why we have the effect we do now.

Whereas with true sight, that should be dispelling magic that shrouds you keeping you from seeing them directly.

This is totally backwards how it is in the game. I can only think of one scenario where a champion like Evelynn needs to be camouflaged instead of stealth, for balance.

Akali Uses magic to keep herself hidden. True sight should be seeing this. Rengar Uses his hunter instincts and teachings along with the environment to stay hidden. True sight should not help you here. Vayne Uses magic in tumble to cloak herself. True sight should be seeing this. Twitch Uses his instincts as feeble prey to keep himself hidden just like he would in his home environment. Like rengar, he mostly uses tactics like avoiding direct light etc. and no magic is involved. True sight should not help you. Teemo Blends into his surroundings by keeping hidden. A good scout needs to avoid detection. This should be camouflage, not stealth, and true sight should not help you find him MonkeyKing Uses magic to keep himself hidden. True sight should be seeing him. Talon Uses magic to keep himself hidden. True Sight should be seeing him. Shaco Once again, uses magic.

Camoflauge is pretty garbage in most cases because red wards are purchased frequently, the most times they are useful is when people are too dumb to buy red wards (Which a mechanic should not rely on your opponent being bad) or, ironically, you are trying to get away in short ranges (but long enough they arent within reveal range)

Stealth should be used for in combat and Red Wards should be revealing them.

Camouflage should be used as ambush and Red Wards should not be revealing them.

8 Comments

redniwediS1 votes

If we get a buff in this way I would like to see it slightly differently. If camouflage gets a change to help it against true sight I'd like it to be a minimap only change. These wards are magic after all, they should detect something, so I'd be fine with not seeing these champs on the minimap but being able to physically see them if they are within my camera's view.

That said you mention Rengar as someone who uses the environment to stay hidden, and while that makes sense his appearance in the cinematic A New Dawn shows it as being a very magical effect.

Hibeki1 votes

The wards all they do is just filter out the magic that keeps them hidden. Their view is no different from your view except it can see things you cannot.

Which makes no sense. Why can it see things that wouldn't be detected by true sight since they are still technically fully visible but not detect things that uses an outside source to remove them from their vision?

redniwediS1 votes

It depends on what definition of true sight you use. You seem to take a more D&D stance on it, while Riot might not. For all we know true sight on Runeterra tracks life force or something, rather than just looking around with magic piercing abilities.

DoomRPG1 votes

Just so you know of the characters listed only (maybe) Wukong and Shaco actually uses magic. While it may look like it but Akali is just using a smokebomb to hide herself. A bit like a real ninja actually in fact it should also stealth any Zed Shen or Kennen in it but that be broken gameplay wise. Vayne despises magic not only because she's Demacian but ESPECIALLY any kind of dark magic. She'd rather kill herself then use any dark magic. In reality she's probably doing something like Batman using her cape or the natural shadows to disorient the enemy. Wukong probably isn't intentionally using magic but is Vastayan so he might be doing it instinctively. Talon is probably similar to Vayne. He tosses out a shit ton of knives and any nearby enemy would instinctively cover their eyes. Giving him time to slit their throat or some shit

Hibeki1 votes

All of these are magic.

They disappear for seemingly no reason. You could say the shroud is a smoke bomb, but it wouldnt be difficult to actually make a smoke bomb (especially when we already have one Graves )

Twilight shroud is magic plain and simple.

DoomRPG1 votes

Except their not, the only Demacians who "Use" magic in any form is Garen who is ignorant of it. Lux who is fully willing to use it and MAYBE Lucian's guns. No other Demacian champ uses magic in any way. Vayne is no different she is not using magic, she gets invisibility as a GAMEPLAY mechanic and so does Talon. Akali's twilight shroud is a smokebomb, the reason it doesn't work like Grave's Smokescreen is for GAMEPLAY reasons. It's the same reason Mordekaiser is shit tier instead of like S- tier in game. Eve Shaco and maybe Wukong are the only characters that have magical means of stealth. The other characters use mostly non magical means. If League strived for gameplay and story integration the summoners would still be a thing.

Hibeki1 votes

Its a poorly designed gameplay mechanic that goes against her MO

You can design things to fit what their theme is without doing something completely different.

If vayne 'disorients you' she doesnt fucking disappear entirely. You can make her untargetable sure but I could still SEE her

I dont care what the flavor text says about twilight shroud. It doesnt look like a smokebomb and it doesnt play like a smokebomb, therefore it isn't.

DoomRPG1 votes

DId you know you can't see what your eyes aren't looking at? It doesn't matter if you were 500+ Ft tall and had a voice that could be heard literally anywhere in all of reality. If nobody ever looked in your direction you would be completely invisible. The same principle is the same for Vayne. She disorients you, then vanishes from your eyesight. This is why her invisibility breaks when she attacks. The sounds of her crossbow firing alert you to her presence. Twilight shroud is a smokebomb, it is also Ionian made and hand thrown instead of grenade like Grave's. Clearly they were made for different purposes and act differently accordingly. If you want go with the argument of "It doesn't look like a smokebomb and it doesn't play like a smokebomb, therefore it isn't" Then legit every sword/gun/hammer/whatever needs to get it's own unique name and category since a claymore is radically different from a katana.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Hibeki

If riot wants to stop allegations of game states they need to start providing actual info.
Gameplay120 comments
246
votes
Its official boys, the Reddit has admitted to fascism and censorship
Gameplay233 comments
230
votes
The matchmaking system actively works against you climbing
Gameplay132 comments
136
votes
Lets outline the most important issues for the game right now
Gameplay139 comments
122
votes
Removal of macro play is actually killing this game.
Gameplay96 comments
100
votes
Neace said it well when he described the game is less about personal skill but more about who sucks
Gameplay192 comments
96
votes