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Why is this allowed?

Ahristocats·Feb 5, 2017·2 votes·1,266 views

winning 1v1 against at level 8? I had + + + and he had + + + i just got destroyed by maokai in 1v1 because he dodged my Q with his W but this isn't my problem

i check death recap

~~180 damage W (%hp damage why not) ~~350 damage Q ~~600 damage autoattacks are you fucking kidding me

i went to check the runes of the dude https://i.gyazo.com/c3938c1a6f32640c391b1a98f4531250.png https://i.gyazo.com/903cdad0d252c53347bb7c075e47fd66.png

OK attack speed runes, let's check maokai's stats https://i.gyazo.com/42123799ddc6bd2a3a3c37b89946874d.png

top 1 attack speed and AD at level 1? seriously why is it allowed? Maokai has infinity sustain, his mana isn't a problem with a corruption potion and his Q can harass+disengage why are you allowing him to duel Darius in early game in a man fight? this doesn't make sens a tank that can survive a lane, harass waveclear has the ability to duel other top laner

And i can assure you that this is the truth, i couldn't take a screenshot of it because i can't use gyazo while having league open

31 Comments

Big LincolnFeb 5, 20175 votes

because despite every single meta tank that goes top having at least 1 very strong defensive steroid for the exact purpose of letting them survive lane (some of them Poppy have two) , they ALSO need to have super good base damage Poppy Maokai

because apparently nerfing their bullshit base damage means that their extremely good defensive steroids wouldn't be enough to lane

AhristocatsFeb 5, 20171 votes

Yeah no, it's not ok for ANY champions to have infinity sustain+strong dueling potential+strong teamfight

maokai can prevent you from moving in an entire fight+protects people with ulti, he doesn't need to be dominant in laning phase too with his insane base mana/sustain/waveclear/harass/dueling

vOmvbrawfUFeb 5, 20171 votes

Yeah no, it's not ok for ANY champions to have infinity sustain+strong dueling potential+strong teamfight

Darius

Jk, but it's Ok. I mean, Fiddles has great sustain, very strong dueling, and an awesome teamfight.

AhristocatsFeb 5, 20171 votes

Fiddle dueling revolves around hoping that the enemy doesn't burst him down before he can get full drain

Darius sustain is garbage in lane wtf... it's nothing until you're low and he doesn't have it infinitly trust me darius can get oom after his Q is rank 3 or 4

vOmvbrawfUFeb 5, 20172 votes

Fid drain can our sustain burst. The problem he has is if the enemy has any CC lol.

Darius sustain is garbage in lane wtf

Bruh, hence the "jk". Calm the tatas.

BakataumanaFeb 5, 20172 votes

you think maokai is bad.. lane against a good galio.. more sustain more wave clear even tankier and has more damage... sounds like mao should be an easy lane if you dont get outplayed

ElfOfTheDesertFeb 5, 20172 votes

You're in Master tier aren't you supposed to stop crying about things like this?

AhristocatsFeb 5, 20171 votes

OK i'm just asking if it's normal for maokai to do more physical damage than darius in early game, calm down

Thorn Fierce RedFeb 5, 20171 votes

I like use full Ap Maokai .

Ale non è maleFeb 5, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EiAlP0fp,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-02-05T15:06:57.470+0000)

winning 1v1 against at level 8? I had + + + and he had + + + i just got destroyed by maokai in 1v1 because he dodged my Q with his W but this isn't my problem

Yes it is You were at level 8 with basically equal gold and itemization - a thing that should not happen as you should bully the hell out of him first levels -, and he dodged your main damage AND sustain ability

You got outplayed hard dude

Stars ShaperFeb 5, 20171 votes

Imo you should have rushed a MR item like the Hexdrinker item 3155 , he got you because of the heavy armor while also dodging your stacks.

I'm not so much into numbers nor high elo, but I learnt that especially in top lane defense has a huge impact if you have to trade. I always build the Hexdrinker even on jayce which is a lot safer.

AhristocatsFeb 5, 20171 votes

ok, but rushing mr against a target that does 600 physical damage?

Stars ShaperFeb 5, 20171 votes

True that, but it's still less damage from poke. At that point the major thing was that you couldn't get stacks on him.

Ale non è maleFeb 5, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EiAlP0fp,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-02-05T15:57:40.963+0000)

ok, but rushing mr against a target that does 600 physical damage?

Dude death recap isn't really accurate, don't rely on it. If he has activated corrupting potion, he has dealt you not only physical but also magic damage through AA - and there was also Bami's Cinder damage that I don't know where/if has been counted but is magic damage -

Against Maokai you build MR cause most of his damage is magic...regardless of this, the main problem was still that he outplayed you by dodging your Q with his W, btw

chipndip1Feb 5, 20171 votes

Remember: He dodged your bread and butter move.

You should have honestly disengaged the second that happened.

WeatheredFeb 5, 20171 votes

Been in this matchup as Maokai before. Trust me, the runes aren't as important as dodging your Q, which is a significant source of your damage (and blood stacks). You have to try to bait out his W and then use Q when it is down.

Proxy345Feb 5, 20171 votes

Maokai is like an immovable rock in lane,even for Camille lol Its one of those lanes where killing each other doesn't matter and farming matters more.

TyrekGoldenspearFeb 5, 20171 votes

Erm...

The Maokai got gud?

AhristocatsFeb 5, 20171 votes

i feel like people didn't understand the point of this thread i'm okay with maokai dodging my Q

but why a top laner that has so much can also deal a lot of damage with basic attacks?

TyrekGoldenspearFeb 5, 20171 votes

Well here's what I think.

Mind you I am a Silver player with low gold MMR last I checked.

Maokai has the top AD and ATK speed according to the wiki.

So, the Maokai sought to take advantage by using ATK speed runes and armor runes to mitigate your damage.

At the same time he built tanky and dodged your bread and butter spell so you can't stack it on him as fast.

So in my mind, he outraded you by getting up close and beating you to death via stat check.

Note that Maokai really isn't meant to buy atk speed or AD. I assume he has high bases to farm.

Now, he clearly aimed to beat a lane bully at his own game, so he could be useless come mid and late.

However, becuase of this he is now weaker to poke without HP seals and MR glyhps.

I know you can't take advantage, but is it possible you just barreled into him expecting to pound him, and he assumed you would and built to handle that?

AhristocatsFeb 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I know you can't take advantage, but is it possible you just barreled into him expecting to pound him, and he assumed you would and built to handle that?

yes because again maokai isn't supposed to win against darius, he's a tank that harasses in lane with Q+waveclear and sustain infinitly with a high mana regeneration and passive, and he's better in midgame due to utility

So why maokai would win in 1v1 against darius due to high base stats, in my opinion this isn't balanced ok he dodged my Q but that should make him able to survive and deal some damage+disengage with Q knock back not to duel darius

i know i didn't expect this, but now i have to play safe against maokai as darius, does that make sens for you?

TyrekGoldenspearFeb 5, 20171 votes

Yeah, I get it.

Perhaps a hex drinker would have helped?

This may sound dumb but did you try bullying him from lvl 1?

AhristocatsFeb 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

This may sound dumb but did you try bullying him from lvl 1?

problem is that people have no idea how it's hard to bully with darius, basically all you can do is harassing with Q but he has passive and he harass with Q, if you try to do something else he's going to W+E+Q+passive and you're going to take more damage

than at level 8 i tried to fight him which resulted in death, imo maokai has received a lot of nerfs during 3 years but his base AD and AS weren't nerfed

PermabannedGarenFeb 6, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EiAlP0fp,comment-id=0008000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-05T18:43:06.436+0000)

yes because again maokai isn't supposed to win against darius

He doesn't, not against a good Darius.

Ultra Rapid FyreFeb 5, 20171 votes

wait... you played darius... and are complaining about a maoki outplaying you?

Thats what you get for not rushing some sort of MR

AhristocatsFeb 5, 20171 votes

No, 1001th time i say it i'm fine with maokai dodging my Q

i'm not fine with maokai doing 600 physical damage, it just doesn't make sens on maokai

Ultra Rapid FyreFeb 5, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EiAlP0fp,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2017-02-05T18:31:44.201+0000)

No, 1001th time i say it i'm fine with maokai dodging my Q

i'm not fine with maokai doing 600 physical damage, it just doesn't make sens on maokai

death recaps are known to not accuratly display damage dealt. depending on his setup, he could have been running Grasp which would make sense that he dealt that much phys dmg because its based on HIS % hp. Given his setup, i feel like this honestly makes sense he did that.

As for his Q damage to do that much early on, he would have had to hit it 3-4 times which means your fight was most likely a 30+ second skirmish as opposed to a straight up burst combo

AhristocatsFeb 5, 20171 votes

Q damage dealt nearly 350 which makes sens because he used it two times death recap only shows the 3 highest damage dealt sources in this case it was W+Q+AA, he also had bami cinder and ULT and E

he didn't have grasp, he just AA with ~70 AD and ~0.8 attack speed, which is why i took 600 physical damage because he used a lot of AA since we fought for like 10 seconds

Ultra Rapid FyreFeb 5, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EiAlP0fp,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-05T18:37:31.732+0000)

Q damage dealt nearly 350 which makes sens because he used it two times death recap only shows the 3 highest damage dealt sources in this case it was W+Q+AA, he also had bami cinder and ULT and E

he didn't have grasp, he just AA with ~70 AD and ~0.8 attack speed, which is why i took 600 physical damage because he used a lot of AA since we fought for like 10 seconds

being a darius you shoulda been able to out trade him easily with your passive... open with your E not your Q, save the Q to bait his W... i mean... getting out played happens to the best of us, dont get frustrated at what happened, learn from it, and adjust your play style. Long trades with maoki usually are shitty for the enemy anyway because your spells and his count towards his passive heal which makes him supper good in longer trades

GigglesOFeb 5, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EiAlP0fp,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-02-05T15:06:57.470+0000)

i couldn't take a screenshot of it because i can't use gyazo while having league open

f12 takes a screenshot

PermabannedGarenFeb 6, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EiAlP0fp,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-02-05T15:06:57.470+0000)

winning 1v1 against at level 8? I had + + + and he had + + + i just got destroyed by maokai in 1v1 because he dodged my Q with his W but this isn't my problem

i check death recap

~~180 damage W (%hp damage why not) ~~350 damage Q ~~600 damage autoattacks are you fucking kidding me

i went to check the runes of the dude https://i.gyazo.com/c3938c1a6f32640c391b1a98f4531250.png https://i.gyazo.com/903cdad0d252c53347bb7c075e47fd66.png

OK attack speed runes, let's check maokai's stats https://i.gyazo.com/42123799ddc6bd2a3a3c37b89946874d.png

top 1 attack speed and AD at level 1? seriously why is it allowed? Maokai has infinity sustain, his mana isn't a problem with a corruption potion and his Q can harass+disengage why are you allowing him to duel Darius in early game in a man fight? this doesn't make sens a tank that can survive a lane, harass waveclear has the ability to duel other top laner

And i can assure you that this is the truth, i couldn't take a screenshot of it because i can't use gyazo while having league open

You somehow failed to bully Maokai as Darius in lane, and you played the 1v1 poorly.

You also for some reason brought up Mao having the highest base AD at level 1, but neglected to mention that at level 8 Darius has higher base AD than Maokai. Darius also has higher base armour and health, incidentally.

Can you give a replay?

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