Would the boards REALLY accept explanations?

Skorch·Feb 8, 2018·74 votes·2,900 views

Think about it. I see ALL THE TIME people saying: "Can we get an explanation as to why X" or "Why does Riot explain Y"

Would you really accept their reasoning?

If Riot tried to explain why anything in the game is the way it is, on the boards, during a time where the entirety of gameplay is talking about how much the game feels awful. What would happen?

Probably a Rioter would come in and say: "Yeah the reason mages dont have a QSS equivalent is because yadda yadda" THEN since he said something that disagreed with general populous, no matter the validity of reasoning. He would be downvoted to oblivion, and the top post the next day would be something relating to but taken completely out of context like "AP doesnt get QSS because Riot says AD must always be better"

Sucks I know, but we all know it would happen.

82 Comments

ChargeItDownMidFeb 8, 201838 votes

[deleted]

SkorchFeb 9, 20187 votes

{quoted}

Depends on the response. The boards are either looking for a logical explanation or words to hang riot by. Realistically, everyone wants riot to have good explanations behind their decision making but more and more, they have to settle for quotes that they can point to as the reason why the balance team is failing.

If riot said something along the lines of "we understand these following issues a, b, and c and we will commit to addressing these next patch with these specific changes d, e, and f" and all of the explanations make sense, i see no reason why the boards would not be satisfied.

You are right, If they were talking about changing something the boards would be happy. But typically people want explanations on things of WHY things are the way they are. And if Riot is content with how something is. No matter the response they wont be happy.

GigglesOFeb 9, 201810 votes

You still missed his point. The things that are complained about are op for MONTHS at a time. Literally Months.

SkorchFeb 9, 20184 votes

{quoted}

You still missed his point. The things that are complained about are op for MONTHS at a time. Literally Months.

What about things that... arent OP, just an idea. Like th emost recent AP QSS. People asking Riot why there isnt one. AP QSS isnt broken it just doesnt exist. What could Riot say to make people NOT want an AP QSS. No amount of you have X and Y already will convince people.

Tomoe GozenFeb 9, 20185 votes

There's a very simple reason.
It's not needed because you can select Unsealed Spellbook as your keystone, opt into Cleanse or go for Tenacity runes + Mercury Boots to help out. What people are looking for is literally devaluing CC as an initiation tool. This is the same argument as with "Why there isn't an AD Zhonya's equivalent" when Marksmen/Assassins were dying too quickly and were literally forced to itemize damage. So Guardian Angel was changed from being a full defensive tool to half offensive.

NyarlathοtepFeb 10, 2018

It's not needed because you can select Unsealed Spellbook as your keystone, opt into Cleanse or go for Tenacity runes + Mercury Boots to help out

Wait what? Why should ap users opt for all these just do remove cc while adc's can buy qss and upgrade it? I dont mind assassins being able to it. But adcs? The CARRY role to have a way on its own to remove cc? Why? Why shouldnt adc do all these just to remove cc? Wtf is this logic. Im suprised you even got these upvotes.

This is the same argument as with "Why there isn't an AD Zhonya's equivalent" when Marksmen/Assassins were dying too quickly and were literally forced to itemize damage

I dont know about assassins, but adcs arent compatible with zhonyas. Riot themselves (if i remember correct) said that the reason why adcs dont have zhonyas is that they are dealing constant damage. Them suddenly going stasis doesnt work with them ( again riot said that IF i remember correct). As for the assassins, yeah ad ones have aa which kinda makes them able to deal sustained damage.

Tomoe GozenFeb 11, 20181 votes

Wait what? Why should ap users opt for all these just do remove cc while adc's can buy qss and upgrade it?

You mean that you have to adapt your playstyle and runes when fighting certain opponents due to their inherent strengths? Isn't this a hallmark of a good player? Just asking for a specific way to ruin one champion's strength so that you can play your full damage builds without regard to matchups is a big issue because then you create playstyles/champions that are inherently too safe and can be as aggressive as they want.

Mages have a Zhonya's, Archangel's and Banshee's which gives them Stasis, big ass shield to absorb damage and one shield to block a single spell, on a timer. Marksmen get Guardian Angel and QSS. Tanks get usual damage reduction stats to which damage dealers have to adapt to by buying items that can cut through a portion of those defenses in order to deal damage. Assassins get a magic shield and a short duration spell shield to help in initiations when faced with many CC spells. Supports get a plethora of shield, heal, CC removal and utility boost items that help them be more efficient.

I'm not seeing a good reason as to why give Mages yet another way to be safe. Marksmen do have an option to cleanse a specific CC but Mercurial Scimitar isn't a staple in anyone's builds unless you're literally up against heavy CC teams that can just stop you by throwing their CC everywhere and catching you with something.

NyarlathοtepFeb 11, 2018

You mean that you have to adapt your playstyle and runes when fighting certain opponents due to their inherent strengths?

You missed my point. What i wanted to say is that im totally oke with adapting your playstyle and yada yada. What im not oke is with what adc's can do. Mages yeah can block one spell. However most of the times it gets used before initiation ( i mean you get poked and goes down). Adc's can remove every cc. They also get to choose. Mages dont. Adcs also get a stasis effect on a much higher cd but also gives them mana and hp. Making them much more to kill and burst down. Mages get a stasis effect (much lower cd compared to adcs) that most of the time it just delays their death by 2.5 second UNLESS they have someone around them to help them. Im totally oke with what you said, but adcs should do it too.

Just asking for a specific way to ruin one champion's strength so that you can play your full damage builds without regard to matchups is a big issue because then you create playstyles/champions that are inherently too safe and can be as aggressive as they want.

Thats what most adcs can do man.

Mages have a Zhonya's, Archangel's and Banshee's which gives them Stasis, big ass shield to absorb damage and one shield to block a single spell, on a timer

Zhonyas minus the active is pretty damn bad. Archangel is pretty good but takes time to scale (until then sucks ass)(also a small handful champs can stack it fast). Its active also has big cd and a mana cost. Banshees aint bad, but can be poked down with ease.

Marksmen get Guardian Angel and QSS

They also get maw and (can buy if they have to) edge of night. Btw all of these items have actives way better and effective than mages can buy.

I'm not seeing a good reason as to why give Mages yet another way to be safe.

Because adcs have more and better ways. Either you nerf theirs or buff mage's.

Tomoe GozenFeb 12, 20181 votes

Marksmen do not have better ways to defend themselves with hybrid items.
Mages have HP as a stat incorporated in their builds and 3 items that help them stay safe.

Edge of Night is an item strictly with Lethality, which is what regular Marksmen don't even look for in their builds (unless you're Miss Fortune). If you opt into such an item on Tristana, you're losing on AS and crit to gain damage, MR and an activatable spell shield. So there's a clear tradeoff. Mercurial Scimitar also does this - MR and Cleanse active + raw damage but lose on crit and AS in an item slot. Which is why again, no Marksmen ever Ruch a trinity of such specific items unless it's Shivv, IE and Berserker's Boots.

Maw loses crit and AS for a magic damage shield, MR and 10% CDR. Which again, isn't something Marksmen want unless there's a very real magic damage threat they can't shake off. Even if such a case, Guardian Angel will buy them a chance at a second life, provided they get one-shotted by Veigar, for example.

Same deal with Essence Reaver. It's an item that gives CDR from crit chance and it's way more suited for Marksmen then EoN or Maw. And yet, unless you're Sivir, you just don't need CDR if you have damage. Sivir is a caster Marksman while Vayne, Tristana and Jinx value raw dueling power due to how their kits work.

Yes, these items are options for Marksmen to use in off-builds if they really need to defend themselves against specific threats but these are not standard items found in any of their builds, due to having to pay the cost of having defensive stats in AS/crit.

NyarlathοtepFeb 12, 2018

Mages have HP as a stat incorporated in their builds and 3 items that help them stay safe.

And hp as a stat is useful (as dmg dealer) ONLY when you are constantly under damage. Aka battle mages. A ziggs cant make good use of hp. Thus item that give hp are kinda wasted.

Edge of Night is an item strictly with Lethality, which is what regular Marksmen don't even look for in their builds

They can still buy and make a decent use of it.

If you opt into such an item on Tristana, you're losing on AS and crit to gain damage, MR and an activatable spell shield.

Tristana is a full crit based champ. Ofc she is going to have trade offs with this item.

Mercurial Scimitar also does this - MR and Cleanse active + raw damage but lose on crit and AS in an item slot

Idk about you but i can buy this item and still retain a good amount of crit. So in the end you pay less crit and atk speed and in exchange you get a strong ass active.

Maw loses crit and AS for a magic damage shield, MR and 10% CDR.

And in exchange the user becomes night unkillable from magic damage UNLESS its late game. On btw it also give lifesteal,spell vamp and atk dmg until out of combat.

Yes, these items are options for Marksmen to use in off-builds if they really need to defend themselves against specific threats but these are not standard items found in any of their builds, due to having to pay the cost of having defensive stats in AS/crit.

I really dont understand you. Adc dont have to buy only crit and atk speed. Usually they reach 50% crit and then they buy other items, lifesteal/armour pen(%) or a "defensive".

Tomoe GozenFeb 14, 20181 votes

I really dont understand you. Adc dont have to buy only crit and atk speed. Usually they reach 50% crit and then they buy other items, lifesteal/armour pen(%) or a "defensive".

You're not familiar with Marksman itemization nor their core item builds. Marksman's core build is usually consisting of Berserker's Boots, some Zeal item and IE. Lifesteal is a commodity they can't afford from items themselves unless you're ready to go BotRK or Bloodthirster. But considering the runes in the Precision and Domination paths, there are some lifesteal/heal options to take there as well to give themselves some sustain.

No Marksman has ever built anything more defensive than a rare Guardian Angel. Even Scimitar has its niche use cases, it's not a staple in their builds. Scimitar has a utility active, it's not even combat related. Crit and AS is very much related to a Marksman's ability to deal damage unless we're talking about Caster Marksmen like Corki and MF. So you telling me "it's fine to stay at 50% crit and have less AS because i have more damage" is the reason i question your posts.

This is fine for Caster marksmen because they usually tend to cast more spells then they engage in AS but for the predominantly AS related Marksmen (Trist, Jinx, Twitch, Vayne, etc), you can't ignore these stats unless you really need to deal with a specific champion that's giving you a lot of grief.

It really doesn't sound like you play Marksmen nor understand how they function. You are most likely just tagging along for the ride and are merely observing how they play. I'm fine with you making observations but what Marksmen buy and what you think they buy are two different things. Having EoN as an option is fine but it's not even nearly as optimal as you think it is. A Marksman can also use Duskblade but almost no Marksmen ever even buy it (unless you're MF, again).

You can't make a theorycraft post and argue that Marksmen have plethora of options to choose from when in fact, there's only a few viable options with the rest being in the "buy if" category.

And hp as a stat is useful (as dmg dealer) ONLY when you are constantly under damage. Aka battle mages. A ziggs cant make good use of hp. Thus item that give hp are kinda wasted.

Ziggs can definitely use HP as a stat, if it comes from Liandry's. Which is the reason why many mages opt into Void Staff, Sorcerer's Shoes and Liandry's to almost turn their damage into true damage with how crazy synergetic these items with each other are. Squishies are literally turned to dust and Tanks' MR is being cut down for a considerable amount. Add a Rylai's into this mix and you have yourself a sustained doubled burn Liandry's passive due to all of your spells now having CC tacked on to them.

Sightless66Feb 9, 20181 votes

The boards are either looking for a logical explanation or words to hang riot by.

As a whole, I don't think the boards are looking for logical explanations. Individuals might be, but the community is not. The boards have bitched since back before I started in season 1, and they've never accepted any explanations that I've seen Riot give. People come here because they're already pissed off at something in the game, and they join into a chorus of other voices who are pissed off and who drive off everyone who isn't pissed off. The entire environment here is so toxic that accepting that they might have a minority opinion, that they might have to wait, or that they might even just be wrong is almost impossible. You might have some individuals accepting explanations, but the tone of the conversation is not going to change no matter what Riot says.

There has never been a time when the boards were satisfied by explanations. I can not remember it happening even once in the last 8 years. Explanations don't make someone's game experience better, particularity if the explanation is about how the board's complaints don't match with what the actual community as a whole thinks. Even when Riot implements changes that the boards end up loving, they are always met with a massive wave of bitching first, because that is the only form of communication that the boards community consistently upvotes.

ChargeItDownMidFeb 9, 20183 votes

[deleted]

Sightless66Feb 9, 20182 votes

The environment has only gotten so toxic since then because riot let it get that way.

The environment has been toxic since season 1. It hasn't gotten worse. It has been this bad. It always is this bad. There is nothing special about the boards right now. It is exactly as toxic as it has always been, because this is an echo chamber that kills conversation and encourages bandwagoning.

The boards are satisfied as long as riot is logical in their decision making. When riot announced it was bringing back solo queue, for example, the reaction was overwhelmingly positive

That wasn't about Riot being logical. That was about Riot giving the boards what they wanted. You frame that as being logical, but that's not why the boards wanted it. The boards wanted it because of an illogical narrative, like everything else they want.

The queue revert was a good decision, but the majority of the stuff the boards want would not be good decisions, and they are never, ever happy when Riot goes against those desires. It doesn't matter if Riot explains why they do something, or if they can defend it, or even if they have a good, logical reason for doing something. The only thing that matters to the boards is whether or not the exact things they ask for are implemented, and how the game changes over time.

The boards are never happy with things being explained, and they can never accept that something they want might a terrible, terrible idea. That's why Riot explaining things, while good for the vast majority of the community, will not help this particular cesspool. It will not make things easier for Riot here. It will not change the board's collective opinion when they're asking for something stupid.

ChargeItDownMidFeb 9, 20182 votes

[deleted]

Sightless66Feb 9, 20181 votes

No, it has never been this bad.

Then you haven't been paying attention. I remember the calls for Morello to be fired or lynched back in season 3. The name "nerfmaster sucktown" didn't come into play from a happy forum community. This place always, always, hates what Riot does. There has not been a time in its history when at least 80% of the content isn't extremely critical. That is the defining characteristic of the boards. Negativity in established patterns.

Hashinshin use to be a meme and now people are forced to agree with him.

Except when he complained about certain champions in season 3. Oh, and then the anti-tank bitching in season 5. That happened to. It's almost like Hashinshin comes into and out of popularity when the bitching he constantly does happens to hit a note.

There has been countless times where people tried to start bandwagons about a random champion and get shut down when their lack of content was exposed.

Yeah, because they went against the echo chamber that already existed. That's the entire point. If people ever try to be positive about certain champions, or negative about ones the boards have decided to like, they get downvoted. That's the way the echo chamber works. It's not negative about everything, and it is very defensive of other things. However, what those are does not vary much with time or game state.

The boards are filled with many different individuals with many different ideas.

Yes, and they get shouted down and downvoted if they aren't part of one of the circlejerks that already exists. The boards is strongly discouraging for anyone who doesn't agree with an established point of view from posting here.

The boards discourage people with different ideas from being part of the discussion. That's how the culture here works. If you aren't part of the majority, you're way more likely to be downvoted, directly insulted, and otherwise encouraged to not post again. It's worse about this than any other League community.

However, when all of the different individuals start coming to the same conclusion

This is where the problem with your explanation is. You're taking this as "everyone is coming to the same conclusion", when that's not what we're seeing. What we're seeing is a very, very vocal minority bitching about top lane, and silencing other dicussion. It's happened often before on the boards. This exact discussion happened late season 5 when top laners felt that they were underrepresnted at high level play. It's a very established circlejerk. The only difference now is that other communities outside of here actually agree, and there's actually something to it this time.

They are not happy when riot offers piss poor explanations.

Every explanation is piss-poor to the boards. Every single one. Even ones that the boards ended up being positive about after implementation were initially criticized. Even ones that inspired a lot of discussion and positivity in other communities were hated here. That's how this place works. Riot's actions are not viewed critically by the boards as a whole, because the most disparaging voices always win out when it comes to how this place views Riot's decision-making.

It makes sense too. They're the ones with some motivation to post. Why post if you happy with the game or the decision? Why downvote discussion if you don't feel annoyed or offended by Riot's decision?

You are buying into the memes too much and losing sight of reality.

You're not taking a critical enough eye towards the boards. You're falsely assuming that it is even slightly representative of the game's actual population. You need to step back, and really examine this place and its failings. It's not a failing of individuals, it's a failing of the community because of how this place is structured. That's not a meme. It's how this place has been, and it's the context that best explains the discussion here.

TequilaZombieFeb 9, 20183 votes

There has never been a time when the boards were satisfied by explanations.

I saw it happen once. Pretty recently, too.

When Riot was going through the whole "You'll receive about 10% of what you invested in your runes" thing this preseason, the boards were, as usual, complaining about MUH IP!! A rioter simply came along and said something along the lines of:

"Hey, we're a company. We need to make money. If we give away too much IP, our RP sales go down, so we'll be giving you as much as we can afford. Sorry, but that's the way it is."

And people were surprizingly content with the answer and respected the honesty.

I'm pretty sure a straightfoward answer like that to big problems would go a long way to get the boards to shut up.

Sightless66Feb 9, 20181 votes

People in a single thread were content, but outside of that thread, those complaints went on about as much up to and until the actual event happened. They complained just as much until the thing they were complaining about was far enough in the past that there was no point anymore. That's a big part of my argument. You can convince a few people, but the overall Boards reception isn't affected at all.

I mean, if you actually look at Riot's explanation posts when they take on any major issue, they're usually pretty well-received. Riot can make good explanations. They just have no effect on the overall discussion whatsoever past the actual thread they're in. The boards community is unchanged, even if some individuals or even the larger community outside the boards acknowledge whatever point Riot makes. That's the effect of the echo chamber here. It drowns out relevant information and stifles conversation.

ValyrianBladeFeb 9, 20182 votes

Riot can explain something and you can still disagree with it.

I still disagree with the tiny refund on my 10 unique rune pages, when i only owned about 50-60 champions. If i would have stuck to 4 rune pages, and ignored the 6 that i thought were a long term investment and only used a handful of times each, i could be up ~40k ip/be worth of Champions. That's a huge difference. I started in season 4 and am still no where close to owning all champions, largely because i prioritized getting a sufficient number of rune pages and runes first.

That doesn't mean i didn't appreciate the explanation. It just means i thought their reasoning was faulty. They could have made the compensation vary to give more percentage to people who spent more on runes, or to people who spent a larger proportion of total ip on runes.

The same thing goes for a lot of balance items. If Riot comments that Yasuo gets buffed and is targeting a higher win rate because he's so popular, I'm going to be pissed about it because that's an awful reason (and even more people dislike him). On the flip side, if they say they're doing it because he's a high skill cap champion with a kit that should be thriving in the current meta at high elo where players can approach his ceiling, and he isn't, I'd be grateful for the explanation even though I'd still be against him getting buffs. There's a difference between a bad reason that I'm going to highlight and complain about, and a valid reason that i happen to disagree with because i have a different perspective.

TequilaZombieFeb 14, 20181 votes

People in a single thread were content, but outside of that thread, those complaints went on about as much up to and until the actual event happened.

This is mostly because it was a single Rioter who answered that in a thread made by a random board member. Put that stuff into an actual fixed post with a link to it in the game client and you get more of the player base to see it.

That comment had little to no visibility, of course it wasn't going to change the overall mood in the boards. But it was enough to make the ones who saw it understand the situation and stop just complaining about "Riot won't talk to us", but rather discussing the subject in a more civil manner.

SasogwaFeb 9, 201816 votes

If they come up with good arguments, I don't see why we should be bitching. Otherwise it's just a matter of balancing philosophy and we might disagree on it but it can not be a bad thing if Riot tries to explain themselves and have a discussion. The gameplay thoughts are already a good thing in my opinion. I also think the stereotype 'all boards members just bitch because they suck at the game' kinda needs to go. Most complaints that get upvoted usually make a lot of sense and feature good points.

SkorchFeb 9, 20186 votes

{quoted}

If they come up with good arguments, I don't see why we should be bitching. Otherwise it's just a matter of balancing philosophy and we might disagree on it but it can not be a bad thing if Riot tries to explain themselves and have a discussion. The gameplay thoughts are already a good thing in my opinion. I also think the stereotype 'all boards members just bitch because they suck at the game' kinda needs to go. Most complaints that get upvoted usually make a lot of sense and feature good points.

If decent arguments meant anything. Than the posts with opposing views but put decently wouldnt be sitting -10. And the no effort "dis OP" posts wouldnt be as popular as they are.

TehNACHOFeb 9, 201812 votes

No.

Always excuses with the Boards. Excuses and arguments and "well actually". Nobody wants to accept they're wrong and the people who pretend are listening are already loaded into a current mindset that will not budge.

Sun Wu RyuumokuFeb 9, 20183 votes

speak for urself.

TehNACHOFeb 9, 20181 votes

I am.

One of my most recent topics was on the state of Top Lane. I'm not even a Top Lane main, so I don't have much at all to bitch and moan about if Top Lane gets overrun by Tanks. Despite that, make a post using nothing but statistics from a third party and I'm overrun by bitching and moaning about, to phrase it for this thread, how my explanation is x and everyone else throws that out of context.

The Boards doesn't want to listen to aggregated stats by people on the sidelines. The Boards wants their personal views justified and will fight tooth and nail if you say anything contrary to what they already believe.

plantersFeb 10, 20181 votes

You are right about top lane not being overrun by tanks, but I did a little digging and if you listen to other high elo top laners outside hashinshin, they will basically say two things. 1st that top lane is "easy to stonewall" because if you buy item 3076 , or item 3047 you can make it so that no one should theoretically, and in many cases practically, be able to kill each other in lane. Second, top lane has less influence in a game than bot lane because ADCs spike so quickly and supports can make them practically un-killable. This is backed up by the fact that ADCs get to spike at 6k gold which is remarkably cheap compared to how much it used to cost. Blaming tanks is wrong, but it is based on some decent underlying arguement.

TehNACHOFeb 10, 20182 votes

Ooh, I actually like that first point. And I kinda agree with it. Except for how badly it gets misused. This thread and my responses to it kinda just sum up my thoughts on Bramble Vest and Ninja Tabi and Tanks in Top Lane, but most importantly it's a pretty fantastic highlight of how far someone would go to make a false point. It wasn't even a one of event, and I'm sure if I tried hard enough, I can keep finding people who use Bramblevest as an argument that Tanks as a class are destroying Top.

The second point is one I have a personal anecdote against for the short period I played Garen top exclusively, but as I'm not a Top Lane main but a Jungler, I don't really have a strong place in this argument. I do however want to point out that this is a completely separate point from mine about the state of Tanks vs everyone else in Top Lane.

SwiftKitten88Feb 9, 20188 votes

its depends.. if they have a good reason.. and if its understandable, then yes i would... if their reason was really shitty... then of course not.

unless they HAVE really shitty reason for doing things then there IS nothing to hide.

Electro522Feb 9, 20183 votes

But then it comes to down to how you interpret it. If one person sees the response as "Hey, this makes sense. Great! Let's move on.", there will be 3 other people, likely here on the boards that would say "Wow, that really sucked. in fact i found it pretty insulting. Screw you Riot!"

For most people here on the Boards, if they do not hear exactly what they want to hear, they won't accept it as a viable answer.

GayFluffyUnicornFeb 9, 20183 votes

And you wanna know why that is? Because riot literally has no balance philosophy or anything. They are just so incredibly biased that things that made them gut champions can stay broken on others just because they "feel" like it. So obviously their answers wouldn't satisfy us since it will all come down to "well x, y is the reason". Boards will be: "yeah but you said x,y was the reason a got nerfed". Rito: "who the fuck cares we know what you want!"

AirKingNeoFeb 9, 20187 votes

Consider Riot kinda has a lying streak, people wouldn't.

However, at least Riot could be held accountable for their changes and people could use statistics to point out a Rioter being incorrect. They could be held accountable.

DivewingFeb 9, 20187 votes

You sound like you're ready to lynch someone

AirKingNeoFeb 9, 20183 votes

I gave you reality.

DivewingFeb 9, 20185 votes

Pretty sure responses like that are how the cops show up at your house...

AirKingNeoFeb 9, 20184 votes

by saying I want people to be held accountable for lying and deceit?

AmazoXFeb 9, 20186 votes

When Yasuo was buffed, the Boards of League of Legends went on a rampage with hate threads. However, God Bless Riot Maple Nectar gave an explanation as to why Yasuo was buffed with a very thorough explanation which then majority of the people at the Boards came to understand.

#So the answer is...YES

#Explanations are nice

Sightless66Feb 9, 20181 votes

They did not come to understand it. The boards kept bitching about Yasuo for months after that. A few people accepted it, but the boards as a whole really had no noticeable change in the tone or content of the conversation.

So, I'm going to use that same example to say "No, the boards will not respond to explanations".

AmazoXFeb 9, 20182 votes

{quoted}

They did not come to understand it. The boards kept bitching about Yasuo for months after that. A few people accepted it, but the boards as a whole really had no noticeable change in the tone or content of the conversation.

So, I'm going to use that same example to say "No, the boards will not respond to explanations".

Not really since what I just said was two months ago.

redniwediSFeb 8, 20185 votes

Some of us would, some of us won't. The boards is in a constant state of disagreement, so while I would personally love to hear about their thinking and reasoning and everything that goes into making a decision I understand why they realistically can't go into it with us.

SkorchFeb 8, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Some of us would, some of us won't. The boards is in a constant state of disagreement, so while I would personally love to hear about their thinking and reasoning and everything that goes into making a decision I understand why they realistically can't go into it with us.

I too would love to hear it, and wouldnt really care as long as they told us. However I know if Riot came out and stated why, a large portion would just completely belittle the entire company for it.

TheSingularityFeb 9, 20185 votes

Just before the dynamic queue fiasco ended, riot stepped up their communication to an extreme level compared to what it had been. The boards were probably the most positive they'd been for a very long time. Riot's explanation was simply that they were unsure of the move they wanted to make in regards to dynamic V revert during their radio silence. While it wasn't the words those wanting to light fires wanted to hear, or those who loved dynamic queue wanted to hear. It satisfied and silenced EVERYONE! Because it was a simple, understandable, logical and honest statement.

None of this current radio silence we've had for years about certain balance topics riot never addresses, deflects for another time where they will again deflect or simply answer the person without answering the question.

All riot needs to do, is simply, logically and honestly state what the F*ck they are doing with this mess of a game they've half baked

Teridax68Feb 9, 20184 votes

There is a difference between understanding someone's reasoning and agreeing with it, and this is a distinction I think is rarely made properly on the Boards, no matter which side of the conversation one is on. On one hand, there is likely a contingent of players here who make no effort to even understand where someone is coming from in their reasoning, whether it be Riot or a regular user. These people tend to have a goal other than that of having good discussion, e.g. they want to "win" the argument (whatever that means) or just find every excuse to bash someone else, and as such are impossible to have a productive exchange with on those terms.

On the flipside of that coin, though, just because someone gives reasoning, does not mean we should all agree with it automatically. In fact, with Riot this has actually led to productive change: when Riot shared their thoughts with us and announced that they would categorically never implement a practice tool, citing understandable reasons, the playerbase disagreed vehemently and gave their own reasons for it, which was enough to sway the developers. As such, it is possible to have a healthy disagreement with someone's reasoning, particularly on a topic of discussion that is inherently subjective, i.e. video games. If the developers give reasoning that is inconsistent, or otherwise don't really communicate clearly on how/why their design philosophy has evolved, the community also has a right to point out that inconsistency, as well as if that reasoning is itself flawed or otherwise unsound (which happens from time to time). As such, while the community may not always have a healthy approach to discussion, it is never a bad thing for Riot to share their reasoning.

Point being: we shouldn't hold individual designers as part of a unified hive mind, nor should we be actively searching for opportunities to conduct witch hunts, but we should absolutely push for more accountability, as that is the foundation of a healthy relationship between customer and provider.

Jinx HunterFeb 9, 20183 votes

I think you mean to say half assed explanations. No The boards nor Reddit for that matter would accept them. But Riot like all companies deal in half explanations or half assed ones, so as to not look bad. Think of it like a half lie. You can never take what a company says at face value, there is always a lot more they are not telling you.

Riot for the most part is aware that half assed explanations aren't going to fly anymore. So they choose to not say anything or very little.

KoKobotoFeb 9, 20183 votes

If they have a good explanation than yes. Right now after reading a bunch of their explanations for the mage item things I can agree. Things like Quinn rework I don't agree.

What kinda post is this even?

EinarUlfarFeb 9, 20182 votes

Truthfully, at this point, any LOGICAL explanation (as we Boards members are also asked to typically display calm and rational approaches if we expect responses anyway) behind this game's direction would be utmost appreciated. It really sucks to see Rioters tending to other matters and for the members who absolutely love this game to feel unheard or hung out to dry despite having legitimate concerns for a game taking a direction that outright doesn't make sense to us.

It's kind of like having your serious significant other of 3+ years break up with you, move down the road (as in remain within relatively close proximity), take out a restraining order(on the grounds this was even possible without reasonable proof it was needed), and refuse to offer an explanation as to why she did any of it.

But to answer your question, the boards would be divisive over explanations - although the more rational understanding members have come out of the woodwork lately.

ˉˉˉˉˉˉFeb 9, 20182 votes

As long as Riot doesn't half-ass their response by making it long but vague, I'll be satisfied.

Funkin DunkinFeb 9, 20182 votes

We'll let you know the answer as soon as we get a explination

SolitairFeb 9, 20182 votes

Given these boards are pretty shit-slingy, but Riot has been giving out some old bullshit of their own lately. Not surprising. Pursuit of profit tends to push games past optimal management into ridiculousness.

The recent BE system for example. What's the reasoning behind making it even harder for new players to really play the game? To farm and purchase the champions they want to play without having to outright buy them because farming BE is fucking ridiculous? Why do new players have to face an unreasonable obstacle to getting into the game in the new BE system that was touted as a way to improve their experience? That's downright deceptive and dishonest, and it points to one thing= profit. How can they explain that away? I've been in games that were pushed for profits way beyond what was an optimal experience. You know what the explanations all were? Lies. Really, painfully obvious lies. Everyone grew extremely hostile to the CM. Until he eventually quit. Part of it was them being dicks, but we also just couldn't trust a single thing he said.

KarfussFeb 10, 20182 votes

I don't see why anyone would have a problem if Riot decided to be more open on certain issues.

Everything is up in the air due to the lack of communication. I think we'd all be grateful if we knew where Riot stood on these issues. We might not like or agree with them, but at least we'd understand what direction they're heading and can choose to go from there.

Personally, I don't want to continue playing League of Legends hoping that it'll one day change, if there's a chance that day will never come. I'm already at the point that I'm refusing to buy skins until I hear anything, so me playing is just causing unnecessary server strain with no prospect of money, for a company that builds itself on it.