Can we add Juggernaut to the list of roles?

The Ecdysiast··1 votes·406 views

Let's face it; they aren't fighters. Fighters have decent mobility (or extremely high, in LeeSin's case), need to buy at least a few damage items, and rely on their sustain coming from at least a little lifesteal. (Especially those that buy item 3930)

The Juggernauts on the other hand have little mobility, but still have the same damage output as fighters with one or no damage items at all while building complete defenses. Not to mention tons of true damage or massive team/self buffs. Neither of which are things fighters have.

They're different roles and are built differently, since the champions that can be considered juggernauts have such huge advantages that they don't actually need more than one damage item to to put the enemy's assassin to shame with their 1000 true damage targeted attacks. OR their dragon.

Edit, for those of you who don't know the official definition they've got:

Fighters are close range combatants that possess a mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. While they don't have as much utility as a tank or as much damage as an assassin, a fighter's damage will add up over time to make it a major threat. Each fighter has a unique blend of mobility, damage, disruption and durability.

Close Range- Only with their auto attacks. Not with their 1000 true damage abilities being able to cast over walls. Mobility-nope Lacking the utility of a tank- nope: Pull+slow+massive healing, silence+extra defenses+ massive healing, and the only ability in the game that can turn a jungle monster into a champion+constant shielding. Along with the fact they're all large to block shots. Lacking the kill potential of an assassin- Nope: two have ways to deal 2400 bursts mid-game, both with half of that being true damage. The other can deal that same damage with a single ability, though that at least is a type that can be defended. Sustained damage- I'll give them that, but the damage is only "sustained" if the target was a tank who wouldn't die from an assassin's burst anyway.

16 Comments

Zone of Endless4 votes

yea, they're called bruisers...

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Do you see Bruiser on the list of roles? No.

Zone of Endless1 votes

{quoted}

Do you see Bruiser on the list of roles? No.

Okay? So what's the point of your thread? Juggernauts are called bruisers.

dEAdbUs1 votes

Lee is just an example of bad Riot's desicion. While they love him, he is too electic for this game. As result we see him 3 seasons in a row on Worlds as one of strongest picks. So Lee is a mix of all classes in this game - even Riots were joking and called him assassin-fighter-adc-jungler-support class.

9kPluzZ1 votes

strongest pick? No. Lee sin was only a strongest pick when he was released. Throughout the recent seasons we had JarvanIV Evelynn Elise Vi Sejuani Gragas RekSai alternate in and out as strongest pick. Was leesin there? yes but was he ever a op strongest pick? No, just a "good" one. Leesin certainly is not a contested pick anymore.

Jbels1 votes

{quoted}

strongest pick? No. Lee sin was only a strongest pick when he was released. Throughout the recent seasons we had JarvanIV Evelynn Elise Vi Sejuani Gragas RekSai alternate in and out as strongest pick. Was leesin there? yes but was he ever a op strongest pick? No, just a "good" one. Leesin certainly is not a contested pick anymore.

Rek'sai used to be fun to watch and play, but now it feels like you're only good for rushing sightstone and being a ward bot

The Ecdysiast1 votes

I only mentioned Lee as an example of extremely high mobility among fighters. I wasn't saying he isn't broken, but he's definitely a fighter where Garen, Darius, and Mordekaiser are not.

Jbels1 votes

I love how everyone is ok with Darius and Garen now, two champions who can output huge Damage with only 1 damage item, or none at all, have low mobility, are tanky as shit, and still bitch about Tahm Kench's damage

redniwediS1 votes

They might not fit your definition of fighter, but they do fit the official definition.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Care to give that official definition? Pretty hard to take your word, when they not only came up with a new word for their role, but also said themselves that it's a different style.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Actually, here you go: Fighters are close range combatants that possess a mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. While they don't have as much utility as a tank or as much damage as an assassin, a fighter's damage will add up over time to make it a major threat. Each fighter has a unique blend of mobility, damage, disruption and durability.

Nowhere does that imply that a Fighter can build completely defense and still deal a 2400 damage burst, including 1200 true damage. (Things an assassin would do, yet juggernauts do not give up any durability to do so)

There are also no fighters that have the same built-in sustain that the juggernauts do with their massive self-healing and shielding.

They wouldn't have given a new word separate from Bruiser or Fighter to them if it wasn't a different role.

redniwediS1 votes

It also doesn't say they can't build only defensive items and still burst down people who didn't build any defense. It also doesn't say that winter is cold, or that trees can't fly. It doesn't matter what it doesn't say, what matters is what it does say about fighters fits what juggernauts are.

There are also no fighters that have the same built-in sustain that the juggernauts do with their massive self-healing and shielding.

This only works if you work off the assumption that juggernauts are not fighters. If you assume they are fighters this statement is a complete failure.

Riot has historically refused to use the term bruiser in an official sense. I don't know why, but it's been their decision for a long while. It is a community given term that describes fighters who rely on their base damages over their scaling. This allows them to still deal damage while building tank items.

Juggernauts, on the other hand, are only five champions. Four being the ones that were given updates, and the last being Nasus, who was used as the base model of what juggernauts should be in the eyes of Riot. Juggernauts are a low mobility subset of bruiser, and bruiser is an old, unofficial term to describe a subset of fighter.

Unless you completely ignore the history behind these terms and definitions there's just no way you can fully separate juggernauts from fighters. Not all fighters are juggernauts, but all juggernauts are fighters.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

If you assume they are fighters, they still do not fit the OFFICIAL description I just gave you.

redniwediS1 votes

Not one part of the official description runs counter to what juggernauts are. What on earth makes you think it does?

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Please refer to the edit I made on the post.

It shows every point you're failing to see.

Puynsi1 votes

No.

More from Gameplay

More by The Ecdysiast