Shaco still has all the same counterplay he's always had.

The Bearded Bard·Feb 13, 2016·3 votes·1,019 views

Seeing a lot of nonsense about Shaco being made OP with the new item. I'm not convinced. If anything, this brings Shaco a bit closer to the other assassins in the game, but not over the top. You can still nullify his existence with good warding, good peeling, good positioning, and generally just playing intelligently. The item doesn't help him backdoor any better, so it's definitely not increasing his late game power, and he gets the same powerspike mid game by rushing IE or Statik Shiv, except his damage isn't reliant on his ult (an ult that is most likely being used to take early objectives anyway).

Really would not like one of my most played and favorite champion to get unjustified nerfs due to overreactions from people that don't even play the champion.

19 Comments

Best KhaZix VoidFeb 13, 20162 votes

Shaco has been lacking severely in counterplay since he was released, his kit's horrible for the game when it's not bugging out and fucking the shaco player over. the new item is garbage anyway, idk why people would complain about shaco using it when he would use it about as well as anyone else would, AKA not at all.

The Bearded BardFeb 13, 20161 votes

Pink wards. They're 75 gold and wherever they are, Shaco can't fight.
Fight him instead of running. 9 times outta 10 my soon to be dead enemy runs from me straight into a box instead of just punching me in the dick when I pop up behind them. The one time they do that, I die they live.
Regular wards. They're free, and there's even a nifty jungle item that gives you two wards to place every single time you go to your base. If you can see Shaco coming, you should never die to him.
Red Trinket. Also free after level 9. Not only does this sweet little bauble reveal Shaco, it also disables his boxes. Unfortunately you still can't target him using Red Trinket, but hey, that's what skillshots are for.
Frost Queen's Claim. Not only will this reveal him from a long ways out, it'll also see right through his pesky stealth, enabling you to punch him directly in the dick. Good thing every AP champ in the game is building this item.
The Shaco not using abilities or active items is the fake one. Don't be fooled if one of the Shacos your fighting starts running away randomly. That's most likely the clone. You can also just click on either one of them to reveal the real one, or ping the real one before he ults. Easy peasy.
His boxes can be killed in ONE WHOLE AUTOATTACK after like level four.
Invade him. If he can't set up his boxes for an early red/blue/golems/gromps, he's gonna be behind. You know he's starting W first, so he has no escapes. Now that minions spawn sooner, he doesn't even have time to set up a recon box.
If you don't invade him, he'll probably be taking your red/blue buff depending on which side you guys are on. Keep your smite, ward out early, get an extra hard leash. He won't have his E, but will probably have ignite. If you're sure you can't take him, ask your support to hang out with you until you think it's safe. If shaco pops up, that's an easy kill 'cause he has no escape. If not, well the support is there to help the whole team, not just ADC. Check out the pros, support chills with jungle early on and leaves ADC in lane to their own devices.
If at any point Shaco is killing you late game, you are: A. Out of position. B. Your front line isn't doing its job. C. Not warding. or D. Dumb.

Shaco preys on bad players. Be a good player and Shaco has tons of counterplay, much like most assassins.

bad manner kidFeb 13, 20161 votes

Champions with frustrating mechanics... Shaco Leblanc Kayle Galio Will always be hated, never buffed, and their items will be nerfed anytime they are popular.

Cloud273Feb 13, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Smash Hit,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EaEuswLV,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-02-13T06:57:03.533+0000)

Champions with frustrating mechanics... Will always be hated, never buffed, and their items will be nerfed anytime they are popular.

Shaco doesn't have "mechanics". His entire kit is point and click LOL.

bad manner kidFeb 13, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Shaco doesn't have "mechanics". His entire kit is point and click LOL.

Mechanics refer to how the champion functions and nothing about skill to play.

Any champion that has a "mechanic" that makes them hard to kill can be extremely frustrating to play against.

The Bearded BardFeb 13, 20162 votes

ITT: Guy doesn't know what mechanics are.

Also, his entire kit isn't even point and click and he's one of the more difficult champions in the game to play.

Cloud273Feb 13, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bearded Bard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EaEuswLV,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2016-02-13T07:13:24.705+0000)

ITT: Guy doesn't know what mechanics are.

Also, his entire kit isn't even point and click and he's one of the more difficult champions in the game to play.

Mechanics=skillshots. Shaco has no skillshots, so no mechanical skill.

EvilRabbittFeb 13, 20161 votes

I wish you luck in placing your boxes when you click them on top of people...lol.....the level of wrong.....

Cloud273Feb 13, 20161 votes

You know, as much as people rage about Rengar (myself included at times), he is one of the HEALTHIER assassins in this game. You see him coming, his slow is a skillshot, and he actually has to work for his burst (empowered 'q'). He doesn't just get it right away like other assassins. Maybe if they made his shiv a skillshot, Shaco would be a slightly healthier champ. His clone can still tank damage and help him escape, and he still has his stealth fear traps.

The Bearded BardFeb 13, 20161 votes

I'd say Kha'zix is the healthiest assassin. Has to isolate target to do damage, has to be upclose to heal, has a tool to get in and out, but only gets the refresh on kill or assist, not entirely reliant on his stealth so he isn't completely countered by one free item/75 gold item.

I think assassins like Shaco get a bad rep because despite them being incredibly easy to play against, people just straight up refuse to do the things they need to do to play against them.

Cloud273Feb 13, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bearded Bard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EaEuswLV,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-02-13T07:17:39.284+0000)

I'd say Kha'zix is the healthiest assassin. Has to isolate target to do damage, has to be upclose to heal, has a tool to get in and out, but only gets the refresh on kill or assist, not entirely reliant on his stealth so he isn't completely countered by one free item/75 gold item.

I think assassins like Shaco get a bad rep because despite them being incredibly easy to play against, people just straight up refuse to do the things they need to do to play against them.

No, that's not the reason at all. It's because like Zed and Evelynn, Shaco has a tremendous amount of safely in his kit (with his hallucinate) (or whatever the ability is called) and his boxes. The duration of his stealth is pretty long and it's on a fairly short cooldown. If you're still in trouble just have your clone tank for you and/or block skillshots. And if someone is still chasing you just run to your boxes. Other assassins don't have multiple tools for staying alive. If Talon or Rengar jumps in on you, they have NO escape (unless Talon didn't use his ult). These types of assassins have extremely safe poke/burst, and it's very hard to punish them due to their multiple escape/survival tools.

Everyone always talks about how Ezreal is the safest adc because of his repositioning ability. How is Shaco any different? He's basically the Ezreal of assassins.

The Bearded BardFeb 13, 20161 votes

Nothing screams 'safety' like having to get two inches from your target to kill them as someone that's just as squishy as they are.

One form of CC stronger than a slow is all it takes to stop Shaco from killing his target and kill him. Q's got 400 range and an 11 second cooldown after stealth. Stealth lasts 3.5 seconds. Box cooldown is 16 seconds and they have a 2 second arm time. Nearly every kill Shaco gets has to be heavily planned and set up, and even then relies heavily on the enemy making a mistake.

I know everything there is to know about this champion. I'm happy to say I've never played against a Shaco I couldn't handle since I started playing him. The problem with people nowadays is they'd rather complain and say there's no counterplay to something instead of just thinking.

The Bearded BardFeb 13, 20161 votes

Did you just call shaco the ez real of assassins? That is the dumbest shit I've ever heard. Holy shit. Like seriously? I'll tell you exactly how it's different. 1. Shaco isn't safe. If he uses Q into a fight he's not using it to get out, unlike ezreal. 2. His E is his only ranged poke, and while it is targeted, it has pretty low range and the damage isn't fantastic unless you're ap, the cool down is also rather high. 3. 0 safety when assassinating. He has to get within 2 inches of the target, good luck doing that without Q so you can use it to escape. 4. Completely different playstyles. Ez you poke and kite til you all in. Shaco you set up for where you want to fight and pray the enemy is stupid.

If anything, Zed is the embodiment of safe assassin while shaco is everything risk and reward.

WillSummon4FoodFeb 13, 20161 votes

Um no you haven't played against a shaco with this item if you are saying that. I lost my last game after we killed shaco 4 time before the 16 min mark and invaded and stole buffs multiple times. Then all the sudden he starts showing up in fights with the new item. Wards are good and all until you are in a major team fight trying to keep from getting destroyed by enemies, and then all the sudden shaco q's in from a mile away over a wall walks up right behind you and starts annihilating you. 0.5 seconds is the average time it took shaco to take me out as an adc. Half the time i thought Nasus was hitting me with q but nope just turned out to be sneaky shaco behind me. He ended the game 21/11 after he was able to solo quadra our team. He took out me our adc 0.5 seconds then ulted while the rest of the team realized what happened and turned on him he battled with his clone took out our apc who was close to me in about 1.2 seconds then our jungler step close enough to set off shaco box so he got feared shaco took him out with his clone dying, then our top laner who was warding finally got to the fight the shaco e'd away got behind him and took him out a full tank build poppy in about 3 seconds. It was gross it was like playing against old ap yi. Quadra kill in no time flat by himself when he was severely behind the entire game until he received that item.

It's broken because you can only have one pink ward on thee map at a time and individuals clear wards like crazy and he can insta gib you very easily. He ended the game with 43,000 damage about 15,000 more then any individual on my team, and about 20,000 more then anyone on his team. He was the entire reason they won. Now unless you gank shaco early he has a great early game and an even greater late game rivaling and ad jungle carry.

The Bearded BardFeb 13, 20161 votes

You can have 5 pink wards on the map at a time. Shouldn't just be the support buying them. If shaco is bypassing your front line with his 400 range Q, front line isn't doing its job.

EvilRabbittFeb 13, 20161 votes

Supposedly the item procs twice for shaco (and my guess is LB as well). That's all.

The Bearded BardFeb 13, 20161 votes

Yeah we all know. That's why I made this thread, because despite this new item being pretty good on him, he's still not overpowered, but people will jump on the bandwagon and treat him like he is. Then he gets nerfed, nerfed again, then the item gets nerfed. Now my main is completely useless instead of moderately useless.

EvilRabbittFeb 13, 20161 votes

That's what makes me sad too. Just bugfix it. They can seperate procs, unless they coded the clone as shaco. In which case, its far easier to nerf Shaco then to re-code shaco. Rip :C

The Bearded BardFeb 13, 20161 votes

Honestly it doesn't even need bugfixing. It doesn't make shaco that much stronger. Early game it's too expensive, mid game he gets the same powerspike from grabbing either IE, statik, or hydra, and late game it doesn't help him split push.