I think people are overreacting with Ekko.

Gunpoint·May 29, 2015·6 votes·543 views

I've played him once in a mirror match and I have played against him almost every game i've played since he's came out and he has pretty obvious counterplay. His ultimate is predictable and his W is a huge telegraph what he is planning. I've hadn't had trouble so far facing him (although it could be people don't know how to play him super well yet). Regardless, I think some small nerfs to his ult damage could be in order but considering it actually takes a set up I think it's pretty fair.

14 Comments

Sir YamazukiMay 29, 20153 votes

Then you realize he has 4 team mates, with a minimum of 2 having cc to stop people from even leaving his W and easily popping his R on them. People need to stop looking at champions in terms of 1v1, this is a 5v5 game and any champion will have 4 allies. All it takes is a Leona or Thresh to land 1 ability and Ekko tosses his W in there and bam, they are forced to stay in it, and this is just from the support, popular junglers whether bruiser or tank have cc as well.

IcyPepperMay 29, 20153 votes

Then you realize he has 4 team mates, with a minimum of 2 having cc to stop people from even leaving his W and easily popping his R on them.

But to be fair, this is teamwork. Any assassin can abuse their teammate's cc. Look at Katarina: her counterplay is most hard cc, but if the cc is cc'd on the enemy team... well, dem resets.

CC wombo komboes have been a thing for awhile, like Orianna and Malphite ults. Or Yasuo, with basically any knockup. Ekko isn't a unique case in this regard, but (this is the point where I'm not disagreeing with you!) this might exemplify these kind of situations you speak of. It's not just Ekko, it's the game in general and we might have to look into it. Some combos are healthy, some are not, and the distinction should be made clear and then taken care of. Shift how champions interact with one another.

LoLKiruMay 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

But to be fair, this is teamwork. Any assassin can abuse their teammate's cc. Look at Katarina: her counterplay is most hard cc, but if the cc is cc'd on the enemy team... well, dem resets.

CC wombo komboes have been a thing for awhile, like Orianna and Malphite ults. Or Yasuo, with basically any knockup. Ekko isn't a unique case in this regard, but (this is the point where I'm not disagreeing with you!) this might exemplify these kind of situations you speak of. It's not just Ekko, it's the game in general and we might have to look into it. Some combos are healthy, some are not, and the distinction should be made clear and then taken care of. Shift how champions interact with one another.

This, its also worth noting that many assassins are make or break in lane. If they fall behind and can't get any kills (or worse, die themselves) they will be right on the road to failure. The only reason I think this is more of an issue for Ekko, is because 2 of his strongest skills have insane amounts of counterplay (and thats not a bad thing, it more comes down to when do you have "too much" counterplay)

Honestly I could see Ekko doing better in melee matchups than he does in ranged ones (simply because he suffers from the same issue Talon does, if he engages he has no real way out besides blowing his ult). So if he engages and his target DOESN'T die, he'll likely eat their full combo and probably die himself (given that his only option at that point is to walk away).

Sir YamazukiMay 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

But to be fair, this is teamwork. Any assassin can abuse their teammate's cc. Look at Katarina: her counterplay is most hard cc, but if the cc is cc'd on the enemy team... well, dem resets.

CC wombo komboes have been a thing for awhile, like Orianna and Malphite ults. Or Yasuo, with basically any knockup. Ekko isn't a unique case in this regard, but (this is the point where I'm not disagreeing with you!) this might exemplify these kind of situations you speak of. It's not just Ekko, it's the game in general and we might have to look into it. Some combos are healthy, some are not, and the distinction should be made clear and then taken care of. Shift how champions interact with one another.

If whether something took team work or not mattered, then most tanks wouldn't be nerfed as individually tanks don't do anything, they can't take objectives, they can't 1v1 adcs nor assassins or some bruisers unless insanely ahead and rely on initiating or protecting their team. Same goes for supports. Even one of your examples Yasuo, had his R range lowered because of how well he worked with other knock ups.

Maximum ZileanMay 29, 20152 votes

The thing is, if you though silences were bad on assassins. a near 2.5 second stun is worse, I know its predictable as hell, but its one of those things that shouldn't exist. Especially on a non ultimate ability.

Generally on damage based champions, stuns really shouldn't last longer then 1.5 seconds. 2 seconds if its an ultimate ability.

GunpointMay 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Zilean,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ea7sv0RY,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-05-29T19:57:33.956+0000)

The thing is, if you though silences were bad on assassins. a near 2.5 second stun is worse, I know its predictable as hell, but its one of those things that shouldn't exist. Especially on a non ultimate ability.

Generally on damage based champions, stuns really shouldn't last longer then 1.5 seconds. 2 seconds if its an ultimate ability.

Not only is it predictable, both he and his opponent have to be in it. It really is fine I think.

Mat7itanMay 29, 20151 votes

Good thing there is a 3 second wind up to the stun. If they gave you anymore time to react you could write a book before it went off.

CelosarMay 29, 20151 votes

you can't see it until the last 0.5 seconds....just sayin...

Mat7itanMay 29, 20151 votes

You can see the wind up though. It is very telegraphed. Just move away from ekko. He has to get to the stun and even if you walk into it there is a lot of time to move out of it.

Shroom JunkieMay 29, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Zilean,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ea7sv0RY,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-05-29T19:57:33.956+0000)

The thing is, if you though silences were bad on assassins. a near 2.5 second stun is worse,

near 2.5 second large AOE stun and shield with long range and vision*

Sadistic CheeseMay 29, 20152 votes

I somewhat agree with you, OP. It really depends on what champion you're playing and the person you're playing against. Thus far I've faced two Ekkos in top lane as Shen and the first one was....well....I don't wanna say brain-dead because that's overkill and mean, but it felt like it. Constantly using abilities to waveclear, often out of mana, if he was LUCKY his Q would smack me on it's way out. I don't think it ever hit me on the way back in. He ended up doing pretty badly since I was easily able to taunt him before he could use his W or simply walk out of where his W was setting up. The second Ekko I've seen was better in that he could land skillshots, and he gave me problems, but ultimately his mobility was just an annoyance more than anything. He still ended up negative and had to roam to other lanes to try and get kills. (at which point I pressed R and the potential for those kills vanished.)

IF he catches you, he hurts. Yes. No doubt about that. But I think you can say that about any assassin. IF the enemy team happens to help him, you have a high chance of being dead by the time the fight is over. But those are both 'if' scenarios. They could go in your favor just as much as they could go in the enemy's favor.

Just like with anything else or any other champion: be aware. Two of his skills are skillshots and can be avoided (you could call his ult a third, but it's a bit difficult to keep track of it sometimes.) That's 2/3rds of his damage down the tubes. He's strong, but he's not THAT strong.

Black k 9May 29, 20151 votes

I think the main reason so many people are reacting with such rejection to Ekko is because (subconsciously or not) they are hating on this guy.

After all, 3/5 of his abilities are taken directly from Faceless Void.

Just Sayin'.

Shroom JunkieMay 29, 20151 votes

He has mobility, multi-target slow+poke that can be returned to hit any targets that happened to dodge it or you missed, damage per 3 hits and damage after a certain health percentage is lost, a large AOE stun and shield, and an ult made to reverse team fights, towerdive better than Tryndamere, escape, and return to lane within 4 seconds.

I don't think we're overreacting.

Dr PoroMay 29, 20151 votes

His ult damage is fine IMO. His massive heal on ult, which doesn't have counterplay, isn't. Remove the heal. It would fit the trailer better where he remains hurt and it would make the gameplay a lot healthier.