Vayne Should have 500 Range instead of 550.

Vayne has "short range" because she has no abilities which allow her to affect enemies outside of her autoattack range.

WR QR QR ER QWR QR WR Q QER QWR (Targeting a minion) QR (Bounce Q off a minion) Q QW QE QER

and are the only other ADCs who can't affect enemies outside of their autoattack range and both have abilities which can extend their autoattack range significantly.

(Probably gonna get down voted to hell for posting this in a Vayne thread and writing alot.) Breakdown on reasons that each champ has the range that they have:

I think that 500 might be a bit too harsh considering that she has 0 poke abilities, and relies entirely on her autos to deal damage. For example: Urgot, Lucian, Graves. These 3 ADCs (If you can call Urgot an ADC) all have shorter than 550 range for rather good reasons. Urgot: 425 range, Buff his auto range from 425 and you're gonna start seeing just how scary he is since he won't have to rely on Q as much. Lucian: 500 range, Very bursty with abilities that have moderate range to them (R has a good range, Q can be used to poke through minions). Graves: 525 range, Very reliant on his burst damage in order to destroy his opponents. Though he does have some poke with his buckshot and smoke, his ability to output very high quantities of burst damage is what made him 525.

Now let's look at the ADCs that were built for poke: Caitlyn, Varus, Ashe (Ashe and Varus both have above 550 range and have at least one ability with a great range that's very poke based): Caitlyn, though she has 650 range, doesn't have any attack speed steroids or damage buffs other than her every once in a while passive headshot. Caitlyn also has very long range poke abilities that focus much more on keeping the enemies from getting near her, and slowly taking down the enemies' healths, though for this, she lost her ability to be as strong as some of the lower ranged ADCs in a prolonged battle. Ashe: 600 range, Immensely powerful with her good ability to poke with her volley shot and lock down enemies in one area. Ashe has an attack speed steroid, a slow, a stun, and a scouting ability that all help her to dominate her opponents from her positioning. What's the down side? She lost all of her mobility to do this. She's immensely powerful but can be deleted more easily than a more mobile champion. This lack of mobility makes her much more vulnerable than Cait. Varus: 575 range, Very similar to Ashe in terms of abilities what with his poke, attack speed steroid, magic damage steroid, slow, and root. Varus lost some of his range in comparison to Ashe because of his ability to poke through minion waves much more easily since his his arrow can pierce straight through the enemies' minions and still hit the enemy. In contrast to Ashe, however, he has no instant stun ability to help him, but he has considerably higher possible damage output, and an ultimate that can root more than just one person. His balance is his entire lack of mobility as well.

Now, let's compare two of what I believe to be very similar champs except for very different points in the game: Draven and Vayne. (Though I can't say Draven falls off in the right hands, he tends to be noticeably less effective at destroying tanks late game if he cannot catch his axes.) Draven and Vayne are both heavy all-in ADCs that lack any forms of poke (Unless you really wish to call Draven's ultimate or his stand aside ability poke, he has NONE) They both have 550 range. They both thrive in a prolonged battle (Unless Draven drops his axes), and both of them have the ability to chase their opponents. Both champions are forced to all-in in order to fight since they lack the ability to poke their enemies down. Both have an ability that can move an enemy champion from their current position(which stuns temporarily), but one is a skillshot and can hit multiple targets while the other is single target, but can yield a longer stun. Both have insane damage outputs in duels. Two major differences between these two though: Draven sacrifices some of his dueling potential for burstiness with his ultimate and spinning axes(If you fail to catch), while Vayne sacrifies burstiness for massive sustained damage and outplaying abilities to fight against bursty champs (Stealth with ult + damage bonus). The next difference is that between the two, Draven is much easier to punish for each of his mistakes. Draven drops his axes, or puts one in a bad spot, and he's either lost that damage output bonus or he's getting dog piled by the enemy team. As for Vayne, her knockback is specific against one person, and her stealth can get her out of the majority of small positioning mistakes that she might make.

If you ask me, I feel like Vayne and Draven are practically the same style of champion. They both have oppressively strong all-in potential and damage outputs, however, with the proper comprehension on how to keep them and their teams from getting the hard engages that they want, these champions become much less of a threat. Poke champions tend to do well in taking down the health bars of these two champs, but they can still heal it back, right? Well, if you wish to actually be able to fight them better in teamfights and control their ability to thrive there, zone control oriented mages will have to be used. (Orianna, Annie, Anivivia, etcetera)

True story and she has tumble which has like no cd

Her big counterplay is that she has no mechanics to do anything past her autoattack range. All other AD carries have something that lets them do damage whenever they aren't autoattacking. They can make something happen from ranges longer than Vayne can, which is useful if a threat zones them out of a fight. Vayne doesn't need 500 range for low range to be her weakness. A nerf to 525 might work, but it also might not be the best option for a nerf if she needs one.

kog with w on and twitch ulting also outrange her. You may also wanna put only adcs that outrange her. Lots of champions outrange vayne if you are gonna say all.

Sad that has a shorter range than vayne.

Back to hating Vayne?

Never change boys, never change.

While 500 might be a tad harsh, I was always of the opinion that she'd more balanceable with an a tad shorter AA range than average. 525 would also be good to try out, imo.

You want to know know why? Here's why: Vayne basically only uses auto attacks and doesn't really have any ranged spells, only chasing and evasion potential. She doesn't have attack speed steroids either, and her only AD steroid is attached to her ultimate, which is on a fairly long cooldown compared to basic abilities.

Let's look at the other short-ranged ADCs and see what they have:

(1) Sivir has a long-ranged Boomerang to compensate, spellshield, and a huge move speed steroid. (2) Lucian has long ranged spells and a dash to compensate. (3) Graves has several long ranged spells and a high burst kit to compensate, and also a dash. (4) Twitch has a crazy long ranged ultimate that has the highest potential DPS in the game to compensate, and stealth. (5) Kalista has huge kiting potential to compensate. (6) Quinn has a blind for trading and lots of utility to compensate. (7) Draven has extremely high damage to compensate, and it's damage that isn't just in the late game like Vayne. He can snowball from the very beginning. (8) Ezreal has long-ranged spells to compensate. (9) Corki has long-ranged spells, burst, and physical, magical and true damage. (10) MF has long-ranged AOE spells with magic damage to compensate. (11) Urgot isn't an ADC, he's a top or mid laner IMO. Even so, he has long-ranged harass and DPS.

Sorry if I missed any, but as you can see, Vayne is the only 550-range-and-under ADC that doesn't have any long-ranged spells or some form of utility to compensate for her range. She just has damage and outplay potential, and all her damage is on her auto attacks. She's an all-in ADC. Poking isn't really so easy on Vayne.

Keep in mind that her abilities don't extend out the range. Tumble is a gap closer, and condemn is either cc or a gap maker.

Outside of that, she doesn't have range. She has no "safe" poke like Jinx, Caitlyn, Varus, or even Ashe has. She can't poke. If she gets within aa range, she is in range of almost every mid-far range ability in the game. Even Annie can harass her outside of Vayne's aa range with spells.

You had a fair point, but you need to include abilities. One factor alone is not a fair evaluation of a champion's power budget. If you're going to talk about aa range, you need to consider spell range as well.

What's with this attacking any champ that can scale nowadays. Vayne's fine. She's mechanically hard to play, has nothing to use that is farther than her auto attack range, is squishy as fuck, and has the worst laning phase for all adc's. If the complaint is that she has 550, well then why do other champs with 550 range get to have their range that far? Most of them can extend farther than 550.

vayne also is unable to do anything outside of that range unlike many other champions who can poke, wave clear and whanot from outside their auto attack range. Vayne is a champion that lives and dies by her auto attack range which isn't that great. Stop trying to look only at auto attack ranges if you have no idea what "short range" means. That's like saying that Xerath or Lux are short range mages because their auto attack ranges aren't great

You're a mongo who doesn't realize every ADC except her have skills with range beyond 550. I bet you're Bronze.

Edit: Yep, get rekt - http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Gunpoint

Her AA range isn't the problem, it's the ball of stats attached to her ult.

her biggest counter is BURST not range. Look at Graves, Draven, Ashe, Corki, lucian if he's playing better than her, etc.