Kalista is the single most frustrating thing to fight against

Visigoth·Apr 26, 2015·154 votes·9,843 views

Especially if you're melee. I would rather fight 5 's over a single . If you are melee, and don't have point and click hard CC, you're pretty much screwed. Doesn't help that Riot is phasing out point and click CC (so basically buffing her). I imagine a few years or whenever gets updated they'll remove his stun, and thus making him unable to catch her. Seriously, it has been months and she has not received a single meaningful nerf. She still gets up to 2.5 bullshit dashes a second, although realistically, she gets probably around 1.5 or 2, it's still retarded.

Why? Seriously? Why? WHY?!? Not to mention they just kinda said fuck it and gave her a slow, and an ability to force her support to come save her, giving her a knock up. She has more CC than most ADC's, one of which is hard, although reliant on an ally. She has %HP damage because "you need your support to also auto attack." Oh man, enemy and both with smite are coming to take baron while your team is doing it? Don't worry, you can press E and do 3k damage. Because fuck you.

Is there seriously a single person in this entire community that thinks Kalista is 100% well rounded. Because your only counter being point and click CC (which again, Riot is phasing out), is pretty dumb.

145 Comments

DanLikesBaconApr 26, 201563 votes

Problem with kalista is that she isnt op, and in lane she can get pooped on by other adcs. However, she is one of the most broken champions in the game in my opinion. She doesnt have an amazing win rate, but she is a champion whose kit is fundamentally broken without a doubt. Out damaging any jungler with smite on dragon/baron, constant dashes, free waveclear (that refunds mana cost too...), free thresh lantern for support (seriously why is this here), free wards, and much more bs.

manbearswineApr 26, 201517 votes

{quoted}

Problem with kalista is that she isnt op,

I don't know man,she's kind of 100% pick/ban in korea( http://lol.gamepedia.com/2015_LCK_Spring/Scoreboards/Round_Robin/Week_11 ) ,I mean that doesn't make her op(though honestly......it kinda does),but I wouldn't be so eager to call her not op.

and in lane she can get pooped on by other adcs.

she doesn't,that's just the bad ones,she actually has a very strong,very safe laning phase.

BUT ANYWAY,kalista is very much op as you NEED point click cc(or burst) to deal with her,meaning a very small set of champions(who riot considered to lack counterplay,but can't realize their beloved cancershitsta is far worse ) is needed vs her else she gets completely out of control,she hard counters a huge pool of champions,which is a very big strength,but what is her tradeoff for it?

Remember carry junglers before cinderhulk? who forced mobility in all lanes and the ability to withstand their pressure from all junglers? Some would say they were balanced(or at least some of them were),but no,the entire role("carry jungler") was broken,it countered half of the champion pool and payed nothing for it,so we just didn't see said half of the champion pool.

If there's one thing to learn from cinderhulk is that countering a large number of champions has to come with a tradeoff and is very much op if it doesn't,sure the meta will "adapt" and you just won't see the champions countered by it,but that doesn't make it balanced.

p.s: I wonder why support nautilus is so popular right now,could it be because he has point click cc?

VDc0zCqe0wApr 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

p.s: I wonder why support nautilus is so popular right now,could it be because he has point click cc?

because he's a tank support, the most broken role in the game that needs to be nerfed or deleted

manbearswineApr 26, 201512 votes

{quoted}

because he's a tank support, the most broken role in the game that needs to be nerfed or deleted

nautilus can actually die.

This hate lacks context,I see them all(naut and especially ali not so much) as facerolling(yes including thresh...especially thresh) trashes,"hurr durr you make one mistake you're dead,hurr durr I make 20 who cares I'm stupidly tanky and regen it in two seconds",but riot seems to like them.

p.s morgana is one of them.

VDc0zCqe0wApr 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

nautilus can actually die.

This hate lacks context,I see them all(naut and especially ali not so much) as facerolling(yes including thresh...especially thresh) trashes,"hurr durr you make one mistake you're dead,hurr durr I make 20 who cares I'm stupidly tanky and regen it in two seconds",but riot seems to like them.

p.s morgana is one of them.

ikr, i stopped playing support just because of this tank love trash (thank god that piece of cancer named Blitz it's actually unplayable right now, most antifun thing i've ever seen in a game after WC3 Blademaster), no brain champions that take no skill, even if i occasionally go Janna and roll all over their faces while spamming joke & laugh cos she's OP vs tanks

even if i brought Zyra mid, i know you think she's bad and i think that too but she's far more playable mid right now (not botlane, botlane is for retarded no-brain champs so she doesn't go there)

they can keep their 20 euro DJ Sona for themselves, there's no point playing her anyways

manbearswineApr 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

ikr, i stopped playing support just because of this tank love trash (thank god that piece of cancer named Blitz it's actually unplayable right now, most antifun thing i've ever seen in a game after WC3 Blademaster), no brain champions that take no skill, even if i occasionally go Janna and roll all over their faces while spamming joke & laugh cos she's OP vs tanks

Join the club,our logo is leona(queen of faceroll) with a red X over her icon.

even if i brought Zyra mid, i know you think she's bad and i think that too but she's far more playable mid right now (not botlane, botlane is for retarded no-brain champs so she doesn't go there)

That's a really hard one,sure,support zyra is trash...but mid...against all these le blancs zeds ahris...? I actually think she's less horrible as a support...

VDc0zCqe0wApr 26, 20151 votes

way better, lumen's is a big step up and zed LB ahri are permabanned anyways

support with mages/poke supports such as Sona is just impossible since S4, might as well go Janna and fuck everyone up cos she's OP anyways, while you wait for tanks to get deleted/moved to top where they belong

manbearswineApr 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

way better, lumen's is a big step up and zed LB ahri are permabanned anyways

LB yes,zed and ahri not really,besides it's not like zyra can handle xerath...or cassiopeia... she just can't compete,everyone there just brings a "better everything" at this point,stronger laning,stronger roam,stronger and more versatile late,I mean if you take the cassio I mentioned,she explodes late,while having a WAAAAAAAAY stronger laning phase,zyra is even so vunerable while laning that due to base stats I'd say cassio is safer in it.

support with mages/poke supports such as Sona is just impossible since S4, might as well go Janna and fuck everyone up cos she's OP anyways,

Janna isn't op,she's op compared to other squishy supports,but that's more because they are weak and not her being strong.

while you wait for tanks to get deleted/moved to top where they belong

They aren't inherently bad,they are just sort of overtuned at the moment,It's not just that,at this point of shitty balancing they are a necessary evil.

Why? because riot just kept buffing adcs,including their early game,if tank supports would be just magically forbbiden from going bot lane the first thing you are going to ask yourself is: "why in the bloody hell is this lucian/graves/draven/'take your pick' able to outrade me at level 1? isn't he supposed to be some hyper scaling adc?" then he get's a bf and getting closer to him isn't worth it,he outtrades you hard,easily and then heals it up with lifesteal,tank supports maintain relevance as they are harder for the enemy adc to poke down and burst,and maintain relevance for much longer through kill potential,the problem is deeply rooted in bot lane right now,removing tank support will raise an issue with the early game of adcs,that's a very deep issue with riot's balancing,they keep on building on existing problems and making things worse instead of realzing something is stupid and dealing with it before it's rooted so deeply you just can't remove it effectively anymore*.

*Take tank junglers for example,the purpose and sense in tank junglers(note not bruisers,idc if mundo goes full tank,he's a bruiser,bruisers bring bulk and damage,tanks bring bulk and cc) is that they are focused on cc(ergo initiation,peel and lockdown) yet cinderhulk(and the latest changes to sejuani/naut) makes them deal damage,and we all know sejuani is pretty strong 1v1,that's not sensible,but riot kept ignoring and building on top of the issues carry junglers cause there was just no other way to make tank junglers relevant otherwise.

NarasimhaApr 27, 20151 votes

LB yes,zed and ahri not really,besides it's not like zyra can handle xerath...or cassiopeia...

Speaking as someone who's played Zyra mid since her release, this is pretty false. Zyra has the range and poke to match up against any of these champions. LB and and Ahri probably give her the most trouble, but Zed, Xerath, and Cass are just as vulnerable to her.

take the cassio I mentioned,she explodes late,while having a WAAAAAAAAY stronger laning phase,zyra is even so vunerable while laning that due to base stats I'd say cassio is safer in it.

She explodes in DAMAGE late, but Zyra still has better utility. Cass has a slow, and a possible stun/slow. Zyra has a multitarget root, a slow, and an incredibly large knockup. Sure, her damage falls off, but thats what the carries are for. And as for laning phase, if you think Zyra is at all vulernable, you haven't played her enough. In fact, the biggest issue with Zyra is that she pushes too hard in the laning phase. Her plants make farming trivial, while also putting pressure on the opponent.

manbearswineApr 27, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Speaking as someone who's played Zyra mid since her release, this is pretty false. Zyra has the range and poke to match up against any of these champions. LB and and Ahri probably give her the most trouble, but Zed, Xerath, and Cass are just as vulnerable to her.

So...anyway...as someone who is not silver,no.

zyra get's roflstomped by any decent zed(I have no clue what they do in silver),xerath outranges her,hard,oh,and has high mana regen to boot,and on top of that,has some bizarrely high movespeed,cass actually outranges zyra with her q,and once that lands,you're dead(I wish this was an exaggeration,but I guess you can burn flash too).

She explodes in DAMAGE late, but Zyra still has better utility. Cass has a slow, and a possible stun/slow. Zyra has a multitarget root, a slow, and an incredibly large knockup.

Cassio has an instant stun in a massive aoe? do you know how strong that is,you enjoy your skillshots and delayed knockups against the mobility that's going rampant,cass wins this one hard.

Sure, her damage falls off, but thats what the carries are for.

It doesn't..........just wtf is going on in here?

And as for laning phase, if you think Zyra is at all vulernable, you haven't played her enough. In fact, the biggest issue with Zyra is that she pushes too hard in the laning phase. Her plants make farming trivial, while also putting pressure on the opponent.

well either that or I'm a diamond player with probably more zyra games than you have games in general.

AFK PushApr 26, 20153 votes

Tank Supports are not nearly as tanky as Tank top laners or Tank Junglers. They do not have the gold income of either of them, meaning that the top and junlger will get tankier quicker, and they don't have the same buildpath as the others such as item 3725

VDc0zCqe0wApr 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Tank Supports are not nearly as tanky as Tank top laners or Tank Junglers. They do not have the gold income of either of them, meaning that the top and junlger will get tankier quicker, and they don't have the same buildpath as the others such as

tank support require no skill to be played, you just can't even fucking poke them because relic + cookies are OP as ducks

they need to be deleted cos they're cancer, Blitz was already deleted now i can't wait for Leona, Nautilus etc...

lB2kGRlc8yApr 26, 20156 votes

I feel for you since you play ashe, but at the same time complaining about blitz is basically saying you don't want to be bothered to adjust your play style. Also, saying champs like Alistar can't be harassed is one of the least informed and most ridiculous statement I've ever heard.

VDc0zCqe0wApr 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I feel for you since you play ashe, but at the same time complaining about blitz is basically saying you don't want to be bothered to adjust your play style. Also, saying champs like Alistar can't be harassed is one of the least informed and most ridiculous statement I've ever heard.

no they can't be harrassed since preseason 4: they just buy 4 cookies + relic shield and have fun trying to do anything vs them

before S4 they weren't played as much as now because they were actually balanced, now they can get imba sustain then 4 items and laugh at anything you do

OnegarionApr 26, 20154 votes

Tanks supports have been played since at least S3 when I started playing. Thresh/Ali/Leona have all seen high play. Braum was big for a while in S4. You really don't understand being a tank support with the responses you are giving.

manbearswineApr 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I feel for you since you play ashe, but at the same time complaining about blitz is basically saying you don't want to be bothered to adjust your play style.

There are two types of people who say they like playing against blitzcrank: 1)leona mains(or some other counter) 2)liars

Let's face it,the champion is insanely frustrating to play against,and I absolutely love the nerfs(though imo w mana cost should be reduced,the ability at it's current power level shouldn't cost 70 mana...maybe 40),you make one mistake and you die,he makes 7 and just facerolls away with his w and passive,he punishes the mistakes of others hard,serves him right that his own will come at a cost as well(I wish morgana/leona/braum/thresh/etc would share the same fate,but I doubt riot will do that).

Also, saying champs like Alistar can't be harassed is one of the least informed and most ridiculous statement I've ever heard.

Alistar is generally seen as an exception(I've actually mentioned him before),though I'm not sure if he agrees about that.

ANYWAY,and first of all: the following is the way I(and some people I know,though some people actually like tank supports) feel: I hate laning against a tank support as not a tank,levels 1-3 are fine,if he get's a good engagement you're screwed,but you have a solid room to poke him,then he recalls(at some point) and everything shifts hard in his favor,your poke barely damages him,his regen goes up,his health goes up and so does the opprtunity to burst him down,creeps aren't as relevant,so he cares less for their aggro,everything you are capable of just got hit,but his kill potential,due to reduced risk only increased,you can't even scratch him(ok scratch him you can,but you get why I'm putting this here),but if he lands anything you're dead,now if junglers get involved: he has a lot of tankiness and lockdown,easy to gank for and hard to gank himself,but you on the other hand... this is why I think tank supports are so popular,very punishing and very forgiving,the squishy ones: not very punishing,not forgiving at all.

as a note I don't see alistar as one of them,and I do see morgana as such.(I define them by the very punishing,very forgiving part,and morgana falls under that,whereas alistar doesn't)

LifeCyclesTWAApr 27, 20151 votes

I enjoy/enjoyed playing against Blitzcrank.

What is bad about Blitzcrank / Leona / Braum / Annie as supports? They have 0 sustain aside from potions. Stop playing the same ADC every game you join. Play people with poke. You don't like getting grabbed by Blitzcrank? Stand behind your minions then. Do like getting grabbed by Leona? Stay out of her range. I checked your match history, you are an amazing support. You need to find yourself better ADCs if they are having trouble.

God damn players like you ruined the game. Players like you are the reason why champions like Talon / Zed / Leblanc / Blitzcrank are getting nerfed so horribly. Players like you are the reason why this game is turning complete and utter shit. Sorry your champion cannot defeat every damn support and adc in the game, if you get countered you get countered, boohoo. Everyone has counter-picks. Its a wonder carries such as Varus don't get played very often in this meta, his poke is real and with how strong tanks are right now, his lack of mobility shouldn't be an issue because he should have multiple peeler's on his team in addition to his slow and ultimate.

manbearswineApr 27, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I enjoy/enjoyed playing against Blitzcrank.

So number 1 or number 2?

What is bad about Blitzcrank / Leona / Braum / Annie as supports?

Nobody mentioned annie as a tank,and she doesn't fit either,all she has to defend herself is one stun and her e(which doesn't give much),annie can be managed,the rest of these trashes(well blitz now is different,so from now on I'll talk about old blitz),not really.

They have 0 sustain aside from potions. Stop playing the same ADC every game you join. Play people with poke. You don't like getting grabbed by Blitzcrank? Stand behind your minions then.

The issue with blitzcrank was largely solved by his speed boost nerfs,he can't just speed boost and chase you the whole lane the second his junglers comes from a bush anymore,nor can he force an engage as easily as he used to,he actually can be punished,but mostly due to his nerfs.

Do like getting grabbed by Leona? Stay out of her range.

You do realize that means she wins right? her range is large,if both you and your adc stay our of her range you get zoned,if your adc has an escape he will still eventually get zoned due to losing trades,her e is dodgeable(somewhat) but once she get's some hp/pots it's just not worth getting near her,she regenrates damage fast,she takes little of it,but if one e lands you're still dead. braum/morgana/thresh are all the same,they basically stop taking damage but if they land one ability you are still as dead as early.

I checked your match history,

Wish I could say the same,it's not even the about the rank,first thing I want to see is that you're not a hypocrite and actually play the squishy supports(janna is an exception,as she actually works against all this nonsense).

you are an amazing support. You need to find yourself better ADCs if they are having trouble.

Except they are not the ones having trouble,a part of being an experienced support is knowing when your pick is a liability.

God damn players like you ruined the game. Players like you are the reason why champions like Talon / Zed / Leblanc / Blitzcrank are getting nerfed so horribly.

Blitzcrank is actually different from the rest of these guys,talon/zed/leblanc actually got nerfed for competitive play,but that's not it either,if you take le blanc the entire community hates her(ergo her 3rd/4th spot on the banrate scale),on top of it as of now both she and zed are considered very strong,and for zed I'm 100% sure he will stay that way,le blanc on the other hand has severe gameplay issues,you would know that if you actually played against diamond le blancs.

Blitzcrank had 55% winrate in diamond so I'm guessing he got nerfed for the same reason amumu got nerfed before,well or maybe because he's obnoxious,hard to tell here.

Players like you are the reason why this game is turning complete and utter shit. Sorry your champion cannot defeat every damn support and adc in the game, if you get countered you get countered, boohoo. Everyone has counter-picks.

Except that the tanks supports aren't their counters,zyra used to be picked into thresh all the time,now nobody even touches her,it's not even that,even if you were right about this(and you are definitely not) having counters is a weakness,where are her strengths to offset that? And don't start with her damage,it's not worth being walked over by any half competant support and adc,and if you could walk over kalista with certain picks as hard as she walks over others herself that would be fine too,but she doesn't,no,I'm afraid,it's people like you who are turning this game into complete and utter shit,you want all these amazing strengths,and being able to counter a lot of things,but you refuse to have any meaningful weakness to offset that,that is the sin of kalista/thresh/zed(and quite frankly,most(not all) of the meta picks).

Its a wonder carries such as Varus don't get played very often in this meta, his poke is real and with how strong tanks are right now,

tanks are dealt with dps,not poke.

his lack of mobility shouldn't be an issue because he should have multiple peeler's on his team in addition to his slow and ultimate.

fine,you tell that to le blanc/ahri/zed,he was picked once to bully kass/vlad,he is shit.

HelpfulYordleApr 26, 20155 votes

I think if more kalista's in soloque stopped building hurricane her win rate would skyrocket. That aside, I agree the amount of utility the rest of her kit brings is a tad overloaded. Worst offender, her uncapped rend on monsters.

Knight SoIaire Apr 26, 20153 votes

Problem with kalista is that she isnt op

hence ppl call her broken annoying or frustrating, not cry for nerfs

junglerboy16Apr 26, 20153 votes

—except that's precisely what the OP is doing.

Vi and CupcaitApr 26, 20153 votes

Not really. If a champ is OP, then that means even if you catch them, you better hope they're low on health and wasted almost all their options of escape, otherwise youre dead. If a champ is broken, then that means there isn't much counterplay against said champ.

For example, Kalista is a broken champ mainly because she can get away, but if you can catch her, then she's dead. An OP champ is Fizz, because even if you get him, he has an escape which makes him untargetable for a moment, and an ult that slows as well, and unless he's out of mana or something, it's hard to keep him still enough to die

Volt CruelerzApr 26, 20152 votes

The thing is though, maining Kalista is more rewarding than the vast majority of other champion, at least in terms of win rate. Usually you'll see mains hitting things like 53-54% win rates. Kalista mains average 59%. That tells me that she's a high skill cap champion that can be unstoppable when played correctly. Basically the same boat Azir was in before he got nerfed. No one liked playing against him and he was crazy good in the right hands. Same thing with Kalista.

MandaariApr 26, 201541 votes

Basically if you don't have a point and click stun she's the most infuriating champion ever.

"Hmm, people are really annoyed by mobility creep. Maybe we should make someone with a permanent dash."

Seriously, what the fuck CertainlyT. What about her passive alone could possibly seem like a good idea to you? Literally 2/3 of the champions you've designed have stupidly overloaded kits that are just straight up not fun to play against.

EvilRabbittApr 26, 20152 votes

They probably thought "If target leaves vision, auto attacks will not land." So kinda "lets psuedo buff graves by making Kalista broken unless she is blind".?

SinlaireApr 26, 201525 votes

Riot tried to nerf her.

but she couldnt be caught by the Udyr swinging the nerf bat nor by any of the reporters asking for comment.

Kalista

Only Play DariusApr 26, 201522 votes

She isn't OP, she is just extremely aggravating to play against.

Like a new Teemo .

**EDIT: **She is for sure overloaded, but overloaded does not always mean overpowered, it just means fighting them is frustrating because you have to account for so many different things that they can use.

JefftiffyApr 26, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EZgN6GqQ,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-04-26T04:34:02.783+0000)

She isn't OP, she is just extremely aggravating to play against.

Like a new .

Except that with Runaan's and boots she gets about a 2.0 AS meaning 2 dashes per second and 2 E procs per second on top of Runaan's damage increase and AoE.

And her ult really should be swapped to the reverse situation where she pulls herself to the support instead so it is actually effected by CC.

freeformlineApr 26, 20159 votes

She also has the privilege of being incredibly aggravating to support for.

FirstSergeantBimApr 27, 20152 votes

On the contrary I find myself looking forward to supporting Kalista. Get out of jail free card? Hell yeah. My ADC has an "I win Dragon card"? Hell yeah. I don't have to watch my ADC squander CS for 20 minutes? Hell yeah.

freeformlineApr 27, 20151 votes

Haha, I guess you've had a different experience than I have! I can't deny the usefulness of an effective Kalista, but many of the ones I see at my level mean trouble. My guess is they are just new to the champ and get themselves in trouble with the passive, or panic and use the ult as a emergency button for themselves rather than for their support. I guess you have to practice somewhere, and you can't always queue up with a friend.

Clearly, the fault must lay at least partially on me if I have trouble learning to support Kalistas, but it is wearisome. By the power of the self-confirming bias, I've gotten myself to a point where I trust unfamiliar Kalistas about as much as I do unfamiliar Vaynes, which is unfortunate. I think Kalista was founded on a really cool concept of co-dependence, and I would love to see that work out, but I have a very hard time liking a champ who so often makes my lane feel like a 1v3.

May I ask how you work with Kalista, both in terms of game mechanics and communicating with the player? For context, I usually take Leona or Taric into a Kalista, but sometimes wind up as Soraka, Zyra, or Nami if I can't respond to their pick for whatever reason.

FirstSergeantBimApr 27, 20152 votes

I feel your pain, lol. It can be hit or miss with any champ and you just never really know what's going to happen. Sometimes you just have to trust, but a quick stats check on League's Match History or LOLNexus can either quell my worries or encourage my dodge, but I make it a point to chat quite a bit in the pre-game just to get everyone on the same page.

Especially when I'm support, I'm constantly chatting and pinging. Since my role is much less mechanically intensive, I can pay more attention to map objectives and our opponent's strengths and weaknesses. The vast majority of my games as a support, I feel like a coach. Worst case scenario you tell your team what they already know, best case scenario you avoid serious casualties. No harm in speaking your mind as long as you are approaching the team properly.

I like to say "we need this" or "if this, then this" type of chat instead of direct commands because I think it's more constructive. "We need to watch that Talon's roam, we can't let him get any bigger." "We need everyone to upgrade their trinkets, they're roaming really well and bot-lane can't respond to the pressure." If anyone else follows through with your "requests", thank them or tell them good job. It's kind of amazing what can happen as long as someone stays positive, gives constructive input and can follow that up with good plays.

As far as working with Kalista goes, I think laying down some guidelines at the beginning of the match can work wonders. Those guidelines are all pretty circumstantial, so it's up to you to determine what your needs are in response to the enemy team. For instance, I like to play Soraka support and even though Soraka doesn't carry an extra cheesy engage like an Alistar or a Sion, that get out of jail free card for Soraka can be game-changing. It's okay if you aren't the "ideal" support for Kali, her kit is so universal anything can work.

I don't want my Kali to use me as an engage, but I would be okay with a re-engage under the right circumstances. So I tell them, but I make sure they know our number one priority is keeping me safe, not putting me in danger so she can't be upset if she picks me up expecting a Raka dive only to see me fly out in the opposite direction. Since I'll be playing pretty far back, I might also tell Kali not to worry about ranking her W up since I'll rarely be close enough to make use of it. If you want vision in a particular area, but don't have a ward, ask for a Sentinal. Kali's Sentinels are a godsend, but most players don't have the presence of mind to use them properly, that's where you come in. They're great for covering area early on when trinket wards are down. For instance, if you and Kali are pushed into your tower, ask her to send a Sentinel through the bot-lane brush so you know the enemy jungler didn't sneak in when you didn't have vision. I might also tell them that we need to bait the Ignite out of the Thresh before we can go ham in lane, but once that Ignite is gone I want her to unload on Thresh if he so much as looks at us funny because we will always win trades as long as Kali doesn't die. Once you have a pretty good idea of your game-plan going into lane, communicating your needs and carrying them out becomes pretty fun, I think.

KeevalroyApr 26, 201518 votes

Her and Yasuo need to burn.

Ace Access Apr 26, 20152 votes

Yasuo y u hate on me

KeevalroyApr 26, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ace Access ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EZgN6GqQ,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2015-04-26T15:14:55.733+0000)

y u hate on me

Shut up Yasuo, you're not a real champion!

Ace Access Apr 26, 20153 votes

you can't lock me up in the non-champ section because I "HASAKEY"

SgtCrispyApr 26, 201513 votes

I'm really shocked they haven't capped her rend damage against monsters yet, even the LCS casters called it out on how bullshit it was.

Shiela HammondApr 26, 20152 votes

They haven't, and probably won't, because they like her having such strong objective control.

BrothaApr 26, 201511 votes

I remember when Lucian was permanently dashing around and we HAD to nerf him right back to hell.

People had so much fun abusing it that they made a champion who does the same exact shit, just with better cc, objective control, and % health damage.

I'd personally like her gutted, but since her niche is infinite dashing she should get a range nerf. I'm talking 480 range nerf.

PæanApr 26, 20159 votes

The only thing that bugs me is her ulti. So many times I ve caught out and cc'ed the support, even urgot ulti'd that blitz and then kali just goes nope. The fact she can pull people who have been hard cc'ed by multiple things isnt fair at all.

ValyrianBladeApr 26, 20157 votes

Well, to be fair, a lot of ADCs can win against her in a duel. If you're auto attacking from ranged all of her hopping around doesn't do anything. She IS terrifying late game though.

Dies to WolvesApr 26, 20155 votes

"but muh mechanics"

Earl EulrichApr 26, 20155 votes

Yupp, i agree her design is way to binary (hardcounter or die).

NarasimhaApr 26, 20154 votes

She has more CC than most ADC's, one of which is hard,

Just to jump on this real quick, while she does has a good amount of crowd control compared to other ADCS, she also has less overall damage than most of them.

ChaoticPineconeApr 26, 20154 votes

i can deal with her mobility - other champions are pretty mobile and can cover the same overall distance, since her hops are pretty short. i can deal with her rend stacks (ish) because if she goes runnans, she doesnt do that much damage (you dont get crit 4 or 5 times in a row). and plus, she has a utility based ult that does zero damage and gives her zero buffs.

what i dont get is why she can pass off rend stacks with her Q. just because you happen to be standing next to 3 minions with 3 spears each which she kills with one Q and tags you with it, she is allowed to get 500 damage of burst on you? and god forbid she killed a minion with that rend, since she can jump off her Q, slow you with a rend to get a couple more stacks, and use the reset.