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The aurelion sol+attack speed thread sparked a lighbulb in my head

Pierce The Veal··17 votes·1,655 views

What if attack speed actually influenced regular abilities as well? By either reducing cast time or increasing it's speed/cast animation/etc. Now hear me out, this would actually make marksmen less necessary to take down turrets as now mages would also have access to attack speed to take down turrets and influence their abilities. And the difference between casters and marksmen would be further narrowed down to primary source of damage. Additionally, to make up for this adc's abilities could be adjusted with the amount of attack speed they build in mind. Furthermore this would actually also make the precision tree more applicable to non adc's as well.

TL;DR: making attack speed influence almost all abilities and introducing other attack speed items for non-marksmen could add a lot of variety to the game in its current state.

Edit: woah I went from +20s to +9, somebody really dislikes this idea eh? To clarify, the intention of this wouldn't be to completely break the game, this would add a new form of variety in builds and allow other classes to potentially take botlane as well.

44 Comments

Almighty13 votes

Your suggestion will end up braking champions which are balanced around their cast times and missle speeds.

(Xerath Anivia Lux Nidalee Velkoz MorganaTwistedFate )

http://www.auplod.com/u/dpoula9d885.png

deadlychuck4 votes

You say that like lux's E doesn't hit 100% of the time by just dropping it directly on you when you're at < 450 move speed.

Almighty2 votes

While Lux's E will most likely be no different, imagine the devistating effects this suggestion will have on her Q and R. But, on the bright side, she will finally be able to land a W on an ally without them running away.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

http://www.auplod.com/u/dpoula9d885.png

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Your suggestion will end up braking champions which are balanced around their cast times and missle speeds.

(Xerath Anivia Lux Nidalee Velkoz MorganaTwistedFate )

http://www.auplod.com/u/dpoula9d885.png

Do note you'd have to invest in attack speed to take advantage of it, hence it wouldn't necessarily break them.

nice table1 votes

i haven't seen the fukin annoyin signature shit for a long ass time and i sure as hell didn't need to see it now, fuk off

ChiTenshi1 votes

How to make Ezreal more annoying.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Your suggestion will end up braking champions which are balanced around their cast times and missle speeds.

(Xerath Anivia Lux Nidalee Velkoz MorganaTwistedFate )

http://www.auplod.com/u/dpoula9d885.png

It doesn't need to be so. In addition, my concept would require sacrifice for them to get said faster cast times, hence they will be losing out in other aspects.

Need Gold 4 Tent1 votes

{quoted}

Your suggestion will end up braking champions which are balanced around their cast times and missle speeds.

(Xerath Anivia Lux Nidalee Velkoz MorganaTwistedFate )

http://www.auplod.com/u/dpoula9d885.png

Doesn't have to be ALL of them. It could be considered in a case by case scenario, like when they started adding AP ratios for utility like AP for % ms buffs. I mean, if every champ was to strictly have a ratio for utility stuff, you'd have Yi's ultimate getting scaling movespeed from AP which would make no sense anyway.

Exclude the champs who are balanced around those things, or just make it so minor that it could be a legit alternative that isn't actually focused on abusing that mechanic, like say... AP carries choosing to get Nashor's over Morello's for better turret killing. It's 20 AP, a bit of damage loss, a bit of dps gained and whatever minor weird AS scaling tacked on as a bonus.

le concombre11 votes

omg. nashors tooth berserkers banshees veil for the passive and then full ap\magic pen nunu ultimate. that would be hilarious

Z3Sleeper1 votes

And for this reason idk about channel times lol. I think he meant more just cast times, cast lockouts and whatnot.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

And for this reason idk about channel times lol. I think he meant more just cast times, cast lockouts and whatnot.

This is actually what I meant yes.

Chembaron Yamada9 votes

Implementing this would require to rebalance every champion in the game. There are many spells which are balanced around having a long cast time and therefore being fairly telegraphed.

I don't know if such a change is really necessary. And there could be some really strange abuse cases they have to consider. For example: Urgot's attackspeed is fixed at 3.0 while in W. What would this do to his abilities? They would probably be casted extremely fast.

And in the end, keep in mind that this kind of cast speed would affect marksmen as well. Imagine a Quinn getting the casting time of her ult extremely reduced because she buys attack speed. Imagine Jinx' W getting off extremely fast without warning because of attack speed. And so on.

In the end, I think this would do more harm than benefit.

deadlychuck1 votes

This reminds me of something else that happened recently, but i can't quite put my finger on it...

Chembaron Yamada3 votes

The rune system is one thing. But the change suggested here would be way more problematic.

The whole counterplay system doesn't work anymore. A champion with a kit full of skillshot still is dodgable for me in this preseason, even with the new runes.

This change would throw alot of this counterplay out the window, it is a change in fundamental mechanics of the game.

These changes would break alot more stuff. Examples like Urgot I mentioned. ADCs with attackspeed steroids being able to boost their cast times. It would benefit AD champs way more than OP gives it credit for, since AD champs can cast their spells faster now to weave in more auto attacks.

deadlychuck1 votes

This change would throw alot of this counterplay out the window, it is a change in fundamental mechanics of the game.

This reminds me of something else that happened recently, but i can't quite put my finger on it...

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

This reminds me of something else that happened recently, but i can't quite put my finger on it...

All the more reason to try it out now.

Champion Skin1 votes

Implementing this would require to rebalance every champion in the game. There are many spells which are balanced around having a long cast time and therefore being fairly telegraphed.

Implementing this would basically make all mages into Syndra with the whole casting while moving.... well if they trash their damage by stacking attack speed that is

Velzard of Koz5 votes

This sounds good on a paper but some abilities are balanced around their cast-time. I can hardly imagine we would ever strike perfect balance where it doesn't make, for example, Karthus spamming still high damage Qs like a bombard or instance where to have actual impact you sacrifice so much dmg it becomes useless.

Also Mages already have turret-shred by their attacks against turrets scaling with AP.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Durzaka2 votes

Ziggs doesnt have a long cast time so he is a bad example.

deadlychuck5 votes

Riot would never do this because then they'd be giving AP champions something that AD champions already have, as opposed to all of the things that AP champions had that were given to AD champions (and sometimes subsequently removed from AP champions).

It's a 1 way street, which is why it's pretty much assumed that riot has favoritism towards AD.

Also, this might actually give item 3091 and item 3115 a well deserved rejuvenation.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Riot would never do this because then they'd be giving AP champions something that AD champions already have, as opposed to all of the things that AP champions had that were given to AD champions (and sometimes subsequently removed from AP champions).

It's a 1 way street, which is why it's pretty much assumed that riot has favoritism towards AD.

Also, this might actually give item 3091 and item 3115 a well deserved rejuvenation.

That's entirely what I was going for. Items like wits end or nashors or to be implemented items could be used by ap champions for once, VIABLY. This would provide a new and useful method of balancing champions besides raw stats and base damages.

FlowDartX4 votes

Yasuo. I think youre thinking of Yasuo.

Jaspers3 votes

They could make it work on some champs abilities....

... Heimerdinger turrets?

nm10102 votes

I think attack speed affects Kayn q cast time already (might just be in shadow assassin). I am certainly open for this mechanic to affect other champions as it makes nashor's a viable option for mid lane spell castors not named Azir.

PurpleHatter1 votes

{quoted}

I think attack speed affects Kayn q cast time already (might just be in shadow assassin). I am certainly open for this mechanic to affect other champions as it makes nashor's a viable option for mid lane spell castors not named Azir.

Honestly don't completely understand why it's so good on him(as someone who has literally touched him once). Isn't the on hit dmg passive completely useless as your soldiers don't actually auto attack?

Champion Skin1 votes

item 3115 VS item 3165 With Nashor's you lose 20 AP and the mana + mana restore but you gain 50% attack speed (and some damage when attack targets not in range of soldiers)

I am not sure if it is worth it.... well if you can manage your mana and don't need the mana from item 3165 then yes Nashor's is probably just straight up better

So it does have some merits and isn't all that bad of an item if you can use the AS it gives

nm10101 votes

Azir wants attack speed, ap, and cdr. You can trade attack speed for more mana + ap on item 3165 and it is actually a better burst item, however you do lose a decent chunk of dps (~50-100 midgame if I recall correctly) compared to item 3115 and I've heard people complain that it is hard to get the last solder auto off without some attack speed. Don't let anyone fool you into getting item 3006 on him though, they are almost always worse than other options.

Shahamut1 votes

last I checked: Nashors and Morellos both have 80 AP... What you trade is mana and the low health grievous wounds, in exchange for attack speed and a passive that doesn't get used by your soldiers.

nm10101 votes

That feel when someone doesn't know the stats on the most common mid lane item in the game :/ it's 100 ap on nomicon bud.

Shahamut1 votes

facepalm You are right, it used to be 80 and they updated it. Im a top lane main XD

junglerboy162 votes

This already affects stuff like Yasuo's Q (not sure if it affects the cast time or just the CD), but it proves that they can implement a change like this.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

This already affects stuff like Yasuo's Q (not sure if it affects the cast time or just the CD), but it proves that they can implement a change like this.

It affects just the cd, but it is feasible that they could implement a change like this.

Nymzo2 votes

Do you want item 3115 to be the new item 3165?

/s

Kaìju1 votes

I was thinking something like that too. Maybe add scaling for damage if the boost in animation time isn't enough? Kinda like Jhins passive where a bit of attack speed is damage.

What Is Smite1 votes

I can see an abuse case if this were to occur with the champions who build AS and go lethal tempo. I assume when you say affect abilities you mean missile speed of those abilities. One abuse case that comes to mind for me is Aatrox's Q it would wind up so fast that you could essentially say he is invulnerable to CC once he's cast it because by the time a player reacts he's already on the downward smash, it becomes further impossible to CC him in Q because just casting it at 4 stacks gives him the 5th passive stack add ontop of that the fact he can proc lethal tempo at range with his E and the moment he goes in he has you CC'ed without counterplay and is wailing on you to the point you Need to use flash to get away.

The 2nd Horseman1 votes

That's some dark souls dex int build shit right there boy,

christ please someone know what I'm talking about

ªTeemo1 votes

Soooo make mages ap ad carries? Wouldn't that be a flat out buff that would make adc's useless?

hoyohai1 votes

It would make AP`s APCs I think So an alternative, not a replacement

Captainn Ginyu1 votes

fun idea but no thanks id be seeing lux's shit lasers faster than you can dodge them an im not willing to deal with that

JackMcSnipeyz1 votes

Oh yea im imagining it now. Xerath throwong max range lasers in an instant. Oriana ball dashing all lane faster than a yasuo on a minion wave high.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Oh yea im imagining it now. Xerath throwong max range lasers in an instant. Oriana ball dashing all lane faster than a yasuo on a minion wave high.

Channels need not be changed. Or if they are changed, they could always be changed within reason.

ChiTenshi1 votes

I think this concept can only be unique to some Champions.

Several Champions will become broken with this (mostly Artillery Mages and AD Caster).

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

I think this concept can only be unique to some Champions.

Several Champions will become broken with this (mostly Artillery Mages and AD Caster).

I feel like it doesn't have to become broken. It doesn't have to reduce channel times or major balance points, just grease the skids or so to speak.

Basically what I'm thinking is casters would have another thing to think about and optimize, allowing themselves different forms of scaling and power. As it is casters scale with pen, damage stat, and occasionally cdr, and adc's in turn scale with attack speed, crit, damage stat, pen, occasionally cdr, AND lifesteal. All of which are multiplicative.

I think playing with cast animations through attack speed could be a good way to actually make other classes of champions a little better in different ways than they used to be, without entirely breaking the game.

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