I'd like to casually remind everyone of something.

Marshbouy·Sep 5, 2016·6 votes·713 views

are not tank items.

41 Comments

Terminus EdgeSep 6, 20162 votes

If you're having trouble with what class Mundo is, just remember that he's fairly identical to Olaf in terms of kit structure.

Only CC is a skillshot slow.
The bulk of their kits are combat steroids of some sort, with both of them being able to mitigate/ignore CC in a way.
Their E's both deliver a fairly big hit on activation (Olaf's as an actual ability cast, Mundo's as an auto reset and bonus damage).

So if you're prepared to call Mundo a tank, then Olaf is a tank too, and we all know Olaf's not a tank.

MarshbouySep 6, 20162 votes

Mundo is not a tank, and neither is olaf.

Fighters

Juggernauts

Nasus Darius Mordekaiser Illaoi Trundle Olaf Garen Shyvana Udyr Dr. Mundo Volibear Yorick

the post RIOT stattik made lists him as a juggernaut along with Dr. mundo. Glad we could agree on that.

UberAffeSep 5, 20161 votes

No but unless you are playing a pure tank like mundo it is often better to get at least one of these Bruisery items.

MarshbouySep 5, 20161 votes

but does that magically make the item a tank item? no. (mundo isn't a tank. He's a juggernaut, sublcass of fighter)

Koala FrenzySep 5, 20161 votes

Mundo is a tank.

Tanky DPS is better than pure tank in 90% of situations.

MarshbouySep 5, 20163 votes

Mundo is not a tank. Mundo is a juggernaut.

Fighters

Juggernauts

Nasus Darius Mordekaiser Illaoi Trundle Olaf Garen Shyvana Udyr Dr. Mundo Volibear Yorick

pulled from http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list

Koala FrenzySep 5, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Mundo is not a tank. Mundo is a juggernaut.

Mundo is a tank. An arbitrary list with obviously no thought does not make mundo not a tank. If I'm staring at a champion with 5000 hp and an ultimate that gives him 3000 more, he's a tank.

MarshbouySep 5, 20163 votes

Troll detected? That "arbitrary list" was made by a fucking rioter who works on the balance team. I think that outclasses your shitty definition of a tank.

Koala FrenzySep 5, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Troll detected? That "arbitrary list" was made by a fucking rioter who works on the balance team. I think that outclasses your shitty definition of a tank.

Yeah and the client lists teemo as an adc. What does riot's opinion mean?

CatastropSep 5, 20163 votes

No, Riot lists him as a Marksman. There's a big difference there, but I'm really not in the mood to discuss it. Hopefully someone else weighs in.

MarshbouySep 5, 20163 votes

Teemo (hybrid Marksman)

it specifically states him as a disruptor and a hybrid marksman. the client does not list teemo as an ADC. It lists him as a marksman. A marksman does not make someone an ADC. It just makes them ranged and auto attack reliant.

Riot's "opinion" is not an opinion but a fact. Your "opinion" is pretty garbage.

VoidStaresBackSep 6, 20162 votes

The client is horrendously outdated, and for the record, Marksman and ADC are two different things.

EndlessSorcererSep 11, 20161 votes

The client lists Teemo as a Marksman, not an ADC.

Marksmen are ranged champions whose primary damage source is their autoattacks (which is why the category includes Teemo and Azir).

You not knowing what the definitions actually mean doesn't make them wrong.

vampirekid13Sep 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Troll detected? That "arbitrary list" was made by a fucking rioter who works on the balance team. I think that outclasses your shitty definition of a tank.

Riot has rarely been right about what a champion is tbh. As in riot is wrong. As always.

MarshbouySep 6, 20161 votes

Ah yes, riot cowers before your massive intellect because they are but mere children compared to your vast knowledge.

VoidStaresBackSep 6, 20164 votes

And this is where you're wrong.

Tanks have hard crowd control for either engage or peel, and are generally divided into two categories: vanguards, the initiator tanks, and wardens, the peeling tanks. They also, due to their role as front-liners, naturally build a lot of tank items to survive the fire they come under.

Divers and especially Juggernauts also tend to be very tanky, and some of them can get even beefier than some tanks with the way their kits pan out (Volibear and Mundo come to mind), but that does not make them tanks. Mundo in particular is an excellent example of this: he has no initiation power and minimal peeling power (his peel only works against MS-reliant champions who have no gap closers).

A champion can be tanky without being a tank. Mundo is tanky. Mundo is not a tank. And Mundo goes where he pleases.

BeatzBoyFTWSep 5, 20161 votes

Well it's 5 HP items & one pure Armor/MR item, and maybe for pure tank champions like Sion it isn't, but it does on people going Tank Yasuo.

MarshbouySep 5, 20161 votes

They are all bruiser items. A tank item does not have inbuilt AD or offensive stats (with the exceptions of item 3068 )

(it's a real fucking stretch to call item 3078 a health item)

DemainaNyxSep 6, 20161 votes

Yes, but normally most top lanes/tanks will buy at least one of those items, maybe two. Full tank Darius/Illaoi will at least have Black Cleaver.

Now, if you mean someone has item 3071 item 3053 item 3078 item 3047 item 3143 item 3068 and are claiming they are full tank and being blown up by the ADC, no, they are not full tank.

MarshbouySep 6, 20161 votes

Yes. But darius an illaoi are not tanks, although some tanks will rush these items.

That's exactly what im talking about. the items i listed are basically what yasuo builds, and people call him full tank

PhDs NutsSep 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yes. But darius an illaoi are not tanks, although some tanks will rush these items.

That's exactly what im talking about. the items i listed are basically what yasuo builds, and people call him full tank

No, they call him Tank Yasuo. He builds tankier than Yasuo is supposed to build. He tanks more than Yasuo is supposed to, but still deals Yasuo damage because of keystones and damage modifiers.

When I play Darius and I finish 3 defensive items, I call myself tanky, not juggernauty.

MarshbouySep 6, 20161 votes

Hey idiot. item 3078 item 3026 item 3022 item 3053 are not goddam tank items.

he's "tankier" but he's not A TANK. He's a bruiser. It's not that fucking hard.

LauchmelderSep 6, 20162 votes

Juggernaughty? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

PhDs NutsSep 6, 20161 votes

Some people on boards really need to stop being so anal about "Juggernauts aren't tanks!!#@#!!! They're tanky fighters!@#$!!!!"

Calm down and stop arguing semantics. You know exactly what people mean when they say "tank Yasuo", "tanks deal damage", etc. Don't be a dick.

And yes, Mundo is a tank.

MarshbouySep 6, 20162 votes

Is it really so hard to say "bruiser yasuo" instead of tank yasuo? Calling him tank yasuo immediately compares him to other champions such as nautilus and maokai. Calling him tank yasuo also encourages lazy thinking and generalization. Oh yeah and finally, when talking about tank yasuo the "tank meta" and fighter subclasses (like bruisers and juggernauts) are then called tanks. Since people hear the word tank they assume they are too tanky, when in reality they are dealing too much damage.

Don't be a dick.

ah yes it is i who is being the dick.

PhDs NutsSep 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Is it really so hard to say "bruiser yasuo" instead of tank yasuo? Calling him tank yasuo immediately compares him to other champions such as nautilus and maokai.

No, it doesn't. It compares him to damage Yasuo.

MarshbouySep 6, 20161 votes

tank yasuo would be item 3068 item 3111 item 3065 item 3742 item 3075 and maybe item 3748 item 3083 . That would be tank. What he is currently building now is bruiser. Saying "tank yasuo does 49120943 damage" also tells newer players who aren't familiar with the game that tanks deal tons and tons of damage. You are literally arguing against saying tank instead of bruiser. Just get the proper classification, it's not that hard.

Succubús GFSep 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Is it really so hard to say "bruiser yasuo" instead of tank yasuo?

Is that not arguing over semantics?

MarshbouySep 6, 20161 votes

it's arguing over not being a generalized idiot and making sure that new players hearing "tanks are op" when talking about yasuo don't get confused.

Succubús GFSep 6, 20162 votes

Okay so arguing over semantics is using a word with multiple interpretations and one argues a counter definition, in case you didn't know, that is exactly what you are doing lul. Didnt you just say they are subclasses? Meaning there is an umbrella term for juggernauts and bruisers right? And what exactly would those be? [slayer-jinx-wink]

MarshbouySep 6, 20161 votes

The encompassing class name is actually fighter, not tank. Tanks

Vanguards

Malphite Amumu Leona Zac Gragas Rammus Mega Gnar Sejuani Rek’Sai Sion Nautilus Skarner Wardens

Braum Nunu Tahm Kench Maokai Shen Thresh Alistar Poppy Galio (hybrid Battle Mage)

those are tanks

Fighters

Juggernauts

Nasus Darius Mordekaiser Illaoi Trundle Olaf Garen Shyvana Udyr Dr. Mundo Volibear Yorick Divers

Vi Xin Zhao Nocturne Pantheon Jarvan Wukong Warwick Renekton Elise Hecarim Lee Sin Irelia Aatrox Evelynn Diana

these are fighters.

Succubús GFSep 6, 20161 votes

When in the world was diana and eve in the same category as vi? Also realize that Juggernauts by definition are TANKY FIGHTERS. KEYWORD tanky. So it would be arguing over semantics because THE INTERPRETATION OF TANK IS DIFFERENT TO OTHERS. jesus christ feel free to hit up a grammar class.

MarshbouySep 6, 20161 votes

So basically your argument is "fuck you, being specific means nothing, diana isn't in the same class as vi" ok cool. bye. im not responding to you again.

0SilverfangSep 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The encompassing class name is actually fighter, not tank. Tanks

Vanguards

Malphite Amumu Leona Zac Gragas Rammus Mega Gnar Sejuani Rek’Sai Sion Nautilus Skarner Wardens

Braum Nunu Tahm Kench Maokai Shen Thresh Alistar Poppy Galio (hybrid Battle Mage)

those are tanks

Fighters

Juggernauts

Nasus Darius Mordekaiser Illaoi Trundle Olaf Garen Shyvana Udyr Dr. Mundo Volibear Yorick Divers

Vi Xin Zhao Nocturne Pantheon Jarvan Wukong Warwick Renekton Elise Hecarim Lee Sin Irelia Aatrox Evelynn Diana

these are fighters.

But what about tryndamere?

All SkillzzSep 6, 20161 votes

Vayne item 3078 item 3153 item 3006 item 3022 item 3053 item 3046 What you mean im not a tank????

PhDs NutsSep 6, 20161 votes

Obviously the list is always correct.

It says Rek'Sai is a tank and that Elise has the same classification as Jarvan and Hecarim. Who are we to disagree? Rek'Sai obviously isn't used primarily to dive and deal damage, and Elise must primarily use Rappel to engage the enemy team and assassinate someone.

Because no champion has ever been discovered to be better used or built differently than Riot intended. Brb, going to go reread the exact counterargument for this using Ekko/Yasuo which spawned this very thread.

MarshbouySep 6, 20162 votes

What they are supposed to be == what people force them to be.

Just because a guy built ahri as an ADC does not mean she is a marksman (regarding ekko/yasuo)

Rek'sai is used as a knockup bot. Elise is frequently used as a AP bruiser/assassin. She frequently dives into the enemy team to deal damage or CC an important target. Sounds like a diver to me.

PhDs NutsSep 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

What they are supposed to be == what people force them to be.

Just because a guy built ahri as an ADC does not mean she is a marksman (regarding ekko/yasuo)

Rek'sai is used as a knockup bot. Elise is frequently used as a AP bruiser/assassin. She frequently dives into the enemy team to deal damage or CC an important target. Sounds like a diver to me.

Champions are "supposed to be" however they're most effective. Riot doesn't have complete control over that.

Right, "a guy" is who's building champions the way I described. Not most of the player base and nearly every professional player. And ADC Ahri is totally as popular/useful as Ekko/Yasuo building defense. Definitely not an irrational comparison.

I don't think I've ever seen (a good) Elise dive into a team for CC in the way Jarvan, Vi, or Hecarim do. She's used to pick a target and have her team layer CC and damage over it. That's why she's always in the professional meta and Jarvan and Vi aren't. Coordinated teams blow up divers.

MarshbouySep 6, 20161 votes

They don't have complete control but it does show what they were designed to be and what riot will likely change them to become.

The viability of a build means nothing.

She's a diver. You cannot change that fact. She has less CC because a large number of other divers have CC ties to their ult. Elise does not have an ult.

You are correct in that she is not played as a diver but as I have said before, just because she is not played as a diver does not mean she is not designed as a diver.

Riot cannot force her to be an LCS diver, as you said their coordination would blow her up so in order to make her stay be a true in LCS she would need huge buffs. In normal league is is very much like a diver, although admittedly she straddles the line between diver and assassin