-board sheep
How many %hp damage was introduced since s2?
rework
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in addition to 
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bloodrazor that costed 4200 gold now brk 3200 gold applies liftesteal AND it is physical
not counting liandry which will become a monster in few time
so no, you will have the tool to deal with it not forgetting that warmog lost 500 hp, mallet was nerfed
aaronconlin8 voteshonestly I think Atma's would be fine, maybe with a few tweaks. Cinderhulk Sion would be fuckin' scary though
Atma's
doublelift fg1 voteshe doesn't have a lot of attack speed though
aaronconlin2 votes[{quoted}](name=doublelift fg,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EWebdlcu,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-06-19T21:34:10.731+0000)
he doesn't have a lot of attack speed though
He doesn't need it. His shield gives him bonus health, which scales with Cinderhulk, which would scale with Atma's. He's got pretty good AD scaling, so Black Cleaver and Atma's would make his auto attacks and abilities do a lot of damage, and the other items would make him tanky and provide even more AD through Atma's. If you really needed attack speed just build Berserker's Greaves.
Robert Smith5 votesLast I checked the health he gains passively doesn't go into cinderhulk. Not sure it is was intended to work that way
B1naryB0t4 votesIt's bonus health so I'm 98% sure it does.
Myozthirirn1 votesThat never happened
Cindikle1 votesEdit: With more testing. I was proven wrong. It's a pain to test because they're is a delay in Cinderhulk's update.
Not sure why this got down voted. It's true.
Sion's passive states it increases his maximum health. Not bonus health. If you go test this you will see that he does not gain extra HP from Cinderhulk as he builds stacks. Tested it in a game. Clearing multiple waves did not give addition Cinderhulk HP. Although getting levels did for some reason. I'd assume this was mainly from the 3% extra HP mastery though.
~~Nasus and Renekton are the same way. Although I think Renekton does state bonus health. ~~
~~Unsure about Lulu's ult. ~~
Bonus health = health gained from outside of a champions kit. (It'll be clearer if they fix Renekton's wording.)
aaronconlin1 votesNot sure why this got down voted. It's true.
Sion's passive states it increases his maximum health. Not bonus health. If you go test this you will see that he does not gain extra HP from Cinderhulk as he builds stacks. Tested it in a game. Clearing multiple waves did not give addition Cinderhulk HP. Although getting levels did for some reason. I'd assume this was mainly from the 3% extra HP mastery though.
Nasus and Renekton are the same way. Although I think Renekton does state bonus health.
Unsure about Lulu's ult.
Bonus health = health gained from outside of a champions kit. (It'll be clearer if they fix Renekton's wording.)
Taken from the Wiki:
"Health gained from 's Soul Furnace or 
's Feast will be increased by the passive. However there can be a delay in the tool tip updating, so it will not appear straight away sometimes."
Cindikle1 votesLeveled him to 18 with no bonus HP form anywhere but Cinderhulk itself.
This would apparently be true.
Wonder if leveling up forces the update?
Perhaps my test on Nasus/Renekton was also wrong too. Their ult duration could be too short for Cinderhulk to update it properly.
dr lichdeath1 votesso basicly if im correct his soul furnace increases his max hp which increses the 3% bonus mastery which then increases cinderhulk hp?
aaronconlin1 votesLast I checked the health he gains passively doesn't go into cinderhulk. Not sure it is was intended to work that way
Source? It adds to his health so wouldn't it automatically count?
Robert Smith1 votesThere was a bug thread about this topic and people responded by sang it is not bonus health so it doesn't stack. Some also said that it would make sion broken since he can infinity get tanker faster than intended. Easiest way to check this is by testing it I guess
aaronconlin1 votesThere was a bug thread about this topic and people responded by sang it is not bonus health so it doesn't stack. Some also said that it would make sion broken since he can infinity get tanker faster than intended. Easiest way to check this is by testing it I guess
I saw some videos by a guy named Pawnce on YouTube who says that it does apply, but I'll look into it
supes the lost1 votesTaken from the Wiki: "Health gained from
one thing up a guy mentioned that it is bonus health and does apply with cinderhulk, just that cinderhulk doesn't update immediately.
doublelift fg4 votesbump to stop the prejudice
CrazedPorcupine3 votesYou seem to be forgetting, that most of those champs existed during the time of the Meta Golem. And guess what, it didn't matter. The metagolem warped the game so much that it was either, you pick 2-3 champs that can build metagolem effectively and have the ADC/Tanky Support/AP mid, and suddenly you've got 3 champs all with 3k-5k HP, one with hard engage, 2 with hard followup, and a crap ton of super damage.
Yes, BotRK and Liandry's are a thing, and there are a ton of %HP damage in the game, but many of those items or some form of %hp damage existed in League when Metagolem was around. The problem was, the original Metagolem had Wriggle's Lantern, which gave 15% lifesteal, So yes, the return of Atma's would be "Weaker" but the problem is, with Cinderhulk multiplying the HP gained from the Metagolem build (which gives around 2000 bonus HP without cinderhulk) The minimal resistances in the build are still incredibly effective.
Also, many of the Metagolem champs had things that made their HP more effective.
Has his Oranges for heal and CC cleanse. His Q procs Sheen, Haste, Frozen Mallet Slow and his passive, AND can Crit. He Q's you once, then charges at you and you can't escape.
Has his Q for gap closing, E for slow, and W for insane heals.
has a parry, and her Ult, each strike of which applies on hit effects, so the first hit will use and consume sheen, each hit will apply Frozen Mallet slow, and TF haste. Once she's done, if you're still alive, she will be unstoppable in terms of getting away.
Has his W% max HP, a leap, and a Slow. Once he hits mega form, you can't get away from him. He'll chain CC you, weave in autos that proc sheen, and slow you even more. Good luck killing a 5k hp mega gnar that has 3.5 seconds of AoE stun.
His Ult and E mean that he doesn't have a hard time getting to you. The haste from TF gives him more damage, his Q allows constant usage of sheen, and his W gives him HP from damage.
She has dash and a 2 second targeted STUN. She does true damage on hit, is already a huge user of Trinity force already, and add in Frozen Mallet and you have no chance of escaping her when you already had so little. If you DO manage to get her Low, she can stun you. Her ult heal scales off of AD, and her W grants HP on hit.
Has a shield, a knockup/armorshred and a gigantic gapcloser that does a sizable amount of damage. He was THE abuser of Metagolem build back in the day. Give him the tools to become that monster again, and he'll become the forefront of the bruiser force.
Again, another champ that abuses Trinity force already. He has gigantic resistance Steroids that are going to be getting buffed next patch, and with AoE stun and a leap and his Dodge. You can't really stop him without heavy focus right now, with Metagolem, he's even harder to deal with.
Another champ that loves loads of bonus AD, Lee Sin was a heavy abuser of trinity force back in the days before hydra. If metagolem comes back, his insane AD scalings mean that he would love to build tanky and just become an unstoppable monster. With his Shield and spellvamp/lifesteal from his W, he's already a pretty insane duelist, and metagolem pushes him over the top.
With Nocturnes Ult and spell shield and his Q and Fear, Nocturne loves things that make him tanky, and make it impossible for his targets to run from him. Frozen Mallet+trinity force gives Nocturne all the damage and utility he needs to stick to targets. His passive HP gain on attack makes him slightly beefier.
Shyvanna doesn't have need of many damage items because of how much freaking damage is given to her for free on her Kit. With her high natural resistances from passive+dragon form, Trinity Force and Frozen mallet help her issues with kitability because once she REACHES a target, they can't escape, and with her Ult, she can reach someone and then be unable to be stopped.
Skarner is champ that loves being able to stick to someone, and since he loves bonus AD along with HP, he does very well with metagolem. If he flashes to ult someone, they won't be able to get away, even if they flash after the ult is over, because the slow from Frozen Mallet plus the haste from Trinity Force makes him as sticky as glue. His Shield also makes him even tankier.
The pure epitome of fighters and bruisers. With buffs coming next patch to his ultimate's Resistance steal, Trundle doesn't need resistances to become a nightmare tank. With Q activating Sheen and consuming Sheen and procing Frozen Mallet, Trundle becomes an unkillable nightmare late game with the Metagolem.
If he ever manages to reach you in bear stance, you won't be able to escape. Udyr's very mechanics and gameplay style lead to incredible synergy with Trinity Force already. Give him massive bonus AD from Atma's, and his Turtle stance lifesteal and his Tiger stance DoT will tear everybody to shreds.
Vi also loves trinity force, and with an unstoppable ult with bonus AD scaling, Vi would probably become one of the most overpowered champs in league with the return of Atma's. Her Shield, %Armor Shred and dash mean that she can catch any fleeing target, and once she reaches them, they may as well just sit down and weep.
Garen synergizes well with the Metagolem because of his passive and E scaling with Crit chance. He's more vulnerable to kiting, but if he does manage to reach you, Trinity FOrce haste and Frozen Mallet slow mean that you can't get away.
The last of the bruisers. his point and click dash/slow means that you won't get away even if you expected to already. with Frozen Mallet and Trinity Force, trying to kite Xin will be impossible after he first reaches you. Plus the fact that he gains HP every 3rd auto, means that he's fairly tanky without building much resistances.
Overall, every bruiser and fighter can take advantage of and ABUSE the living hell out of Atma's.
If you try to change it's passive to something based off of current HP, then it doesn't become worth picking up or is so worth picking up that it ends up getting nerfed and thus never picked up.
Critmaster Garen7 votes
your false premise that bruisers abuse atmas, when it is actually a bruiser item, aside.
why the fuck would you ever build triforce on garen for the rage passive, when cleaver exists? ive actually never seen anyone build that item on him other than for troll builds. youre wasting gold on 3 stats on the item that youre not gonna use properly, if at all.
one of the main things that anoys me is that people get the % passive backwards. its no difference between building an atmas as 5th item for those 60 ad, or building any other big ad item. (maw for example or bloodhirster).
the item isnt op on champions who build health. it has pretty normal stats for any ad item. the main thing that makes it attractive is the stat combination of armor and ad.
the only effect the % health passive has, is that it makes the item not very useful on squishies. meaning it restricts the item to bruisers, while the stats themselves are good, but not spectacular.
the actual thing that made atmas so powerful when it existed with its 2% passive, was its midgame cost effectiveness. the way it scaled off base health made the item already incredibly cost effective by midgame, and even more with a single hp item.
atmas problem were never its lategame stats, but the fact that atmas rushes were so effective. one of the possibilites to fix that would just have the item scale with bonus hp instead of total hp. meaning atmas rushes would be worthless. but as a 4th or 5th item after you actually built some health, it offers a nice combination of ad, crit and armor that no other item offers.
CrazedPorcupine1 votesGaren has high base AD, and his Q both activates and consumes the SHeen proc. Trinity Force also gives AP which boosts his ult, Rage passive which already is good with him, and Crit chance synergizes well with the crit of Atma's. The massive HP built in MetaGolem synergizes so incredibly well with Garen because of both Warmog's passive AND Garen's passive. Garen's Q also applies Frozen Mallet slow. Black cleaver sure would reduce the armor of his target, and give some CDR, but Trinity gives a wider range of stats that's incredibly efficient. Trinity Force also gives %MS bonus along with the Rage bonus.
Stats on Trinity Force that Garen Makes Use of: AD AP AS MS Crit HP Sheen Proc Rage Passive
Stat that Garen doesn't use at all: Mana
Overall, trinity force gives enough stats that garen uses that TF on Garen isn't all that bad.
The combination of Armor/AD/crit chance meant that Atma's automatically synergizes well with Trinity Force which grants even crit chance.
Even if Atma's becomes based off of bonus HP, then something like this would occur:
Cinderhulk/Righteous Glory/Atmas (which at 3.5% would be around 42 AD Plus around 20% crit chance) Then go for Trinity Force or Frozen Mallet, and the AD Shoots up to nearly 60AD. Atma's would still be good as a 3rd item because there are pure HP items that are desirable. Even if it ends up being: Cinderhulk/Black Cleaver/Atmas (which is around 25 AD) into Frozen Mallet (which ups the AD up to around 55), Atma's is similar to Cinderhulk where the synergy between the two is simply insane. You can rush Atma's second after Cinderhulk and by the time you finish build, you're still gaining nearly 90 AD from Atma's essentially for free.
Critmaster Garen9 votesstuff
nothing in garens kit scales with ap.
and attack speed isnt great on him either, since most of his damage comes from his spells, and he doesnt auto attack during his spin. its not entirely wasted but not very attractive. the only attack speed item thats useful for him is ghostblae, because he can trigger the brust between spin cooldowns.
garen scales with ad and cooldown reduction like a caster, not with attack speed or on hit effects, since he ususally doesnt auto attack a lot.
[{quoted}](name=hi im bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EWebdlcu,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2015-06-19T23:16:38.650+0000)
theres no way to prove my, or your point this argument is pointless
its not pointless. the build you posted would get shit on by a bork carry. do you have any idea how much your opponent would lifesteal off you?
Zair Umbras1 votesWoah, woah, woah. NEVER DIS THE TRINITYPHREAK ON GAREN, IT DOES TONS OF DAMAGE, GAWD.
:3 Watch his spotlight, maaaaaan. The TrinityPhreak is so awesome.
agbudar1 votesatma's used to be 4.5% just sayin...
brad3 votesyou clearly dont understand and never played the game back in season 2
bruisers will wreck fucking anything they can get their hands on with 
and atmas
Critmaster Garen5 votes[{quoted}](name=hi im bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EWebdlcu,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-06-19T23:11:43.310+0000)
you clearly dont understand and never played the game back in season 2
bruisers will wreck fucking anything they can get their hands on with
this isnt season 2. the game has changed.
the game has been overloaded with % health damage. bork didnt exist and liandries didnt exist back then. it will be fine.
brad1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EWebdlcu,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2015-06-19T23:13:45.743+0000)
this isnt season 2. the game has changed.
the game has been overloaded with % health damage. bork didnt exist and liandries didnt exist back then. it will be fine.
theres no way to prove my, or your point this argument is pointless
Sasogwa3 votes[{quoted}](name=hi im bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EWebdlcu,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-06-19T23:11:43.310+0000)
you clearly dont understand and never played the game back in season 2
bruisers will wreck fucking anything they can get their hands on with
People that think they're tanky because they have 100-150ish resists and 5k HP. Ahlala...
doublelift fg1 votesyes, let brand build full tank and still does damage with his passive and 
against your 100 mr champ
Rozzeta1 votesIt's a good thing they increased it's AP, but thing is it is still a DoT. In his prime, when metagolems ran rampant, Xin Zhao would rush into your face and HUUUU HIAAA HAAAAAAAAAAA until you were dead. I do not believe most people here understand why metagolems were such a problem. We're talking about champions almost as tanky as a tank, with almost as much damage as a carry. Combine that with their initiation kit and you also have assassins who you cannot push back (Syndra aside).
KidKaiser3 votesif they ever bring back Atmas. it's gonna shift back into Bruiser meta. then ADC. Then mages/assassins. THEN. back to what we have now.
which will take another 4 seasons.
Mayor Stubbs1 votesI agree with this. Also think it's probably an inevitable outcome
Squarefighter2 votesThis guy just made a smurf to shit post all over the boards, don't listen to him.
Mandang02 votesWe're already in a cinderhulk meta... and I'm supposed to think metagolem won't come back because some champs have %HP damage?
Pffffft, good one!
doublelift fg1 votescinderhulk is built currently on gragas and sejuani, i can't see how they would be more broken with atma
hecarim come back with cinderhulk+atma? then for the reasons i listed you would be able to deal with him.
it isn't some champions that have %HP damage, it is EVERY MAGE in next patch + every carry that will lifesteal and have an amazing active with 
Mandang01 votesYou're VERY short-sighted if you honestly believe only Gragas and Sejuani would build cinderhulk in such a world. More likely, I think you already know which champions you'd want to build Atma's on, already know that cinderhulk would work very well with it on those champions, and just want to push the item through for your own benefit, regardless of pesky things like balance.
In any case, you missed my point completely. Your claim that %HP damage will prevent a cinderhulk+Atma's build is obviously wrong as %HP damage already doesn't discourage champions from building cinderhulk. Hell, they even build it outside of the jungle! Every reason those champions have for building cinderhulk currently, they'll still have if you bring back Atma's, only now they'll get doubly rewarded for stacking health.
TehNACHO1 votesWell to be fair for the tank champions, it's so that they don't fall astronomically hard by the late game without accidentally giving them stupid and abusable off builds via high ratios.
doublelift fg2 votestrue for sion, not true for zac
zac's W has 3 sec cd with cdr and reduced by 1 sec when take a blop, also deals something like 10% max hp with some ap
Zair Umbras1 votesAll AP tanks have the option to deal lots of damage with their abilities. Current top-picked champs all have lots of sustained damage and Liandry's+Rylai's isn't hard to pick up for a Sej or Zac which increasing their damage dramatically, far more dramatically than an Atma's too.
Champion Skin1 votesLiandries + Frozen heart works as well (if they are in range) And usually the best for tanks is CDR as it increase their ability DPS decently well (Tanks often rely on base damages which works well with CDR) and also give their CC more up time
Zair Umbras1 votesEh. Zac doesn't exactly put a FH to use! Which is the example the one prior to me gave.
ChaosThief1 votesI thought they removed nidalee's %HP
doublelift fg4 votesmy bad, though she still has her Q
ChaosThief2 votesHer Q doesn't deal %. Yes it hurts, but it doesn't do %hp.
Rinky Dinky2 votesThe execute does.
blueberrypancake1 votes Garen Meta would be interesting
LordGeovanni1 voteskill the fighters just so assassins can feel good about them selves with their high base damage and ratios. assassins were never ment to beable to unload on their natual counter tanks and kill them which is what most people are crying about and fighters are all most nonexistent
Kingsgrave1 votesHow do you introduce it without forcing every Bruiser to build it?
I'm fine with it existing as long as that problem is solved. Fighter items need to be more varied not "build this every game or never build it at all under any circumstances"
It's funny how they said they wanted to do that with Cleaver but most everyone builds it every game, even more than they did before. Lmao
To be fair tho, why would this item need to exist? Armor + AD means you don't lose out on any stat, especially since it gives you a large incentive to build it with Health. Now you have every stat you want just with 2 items.
If it gave some sort of conditional bonus damage on auto that came from your Health or Armor stat, that would be fine.
doublelift fg3 votesEvery adc build 
why can't bruiser build atma?
Matezoide1 votesThey also buffed Blade of the Ruined King lel
Byzok21 votesFunny thing: everyone mention BORK as a counter pick against an HP build. The thing is: crit can't multiply it, and the one-hit damage only works on current hp. So the damage fall of in late game compared to PD+IE. In such way that ADC only pick this item for the early/mid game power spike. If the HP meta comes back, BORK is probably going to be the bruiser answer for this.
OyddAWqJ5r1 votes% health damage is not a counter to tanks. It is used for 2 reasons:
As a tool used to keep a certain ability's damage consistent throughout the game as a 2nd or 3rd maxing ability.
As a way to counter pure health stacking. It is much less effective against enemies with resistances combined with health.
The only exception to this is whose % health true damage is a tank shredder by design.
Rozzeta1 votesGreat idea. This way you can polarize champion selection around metagolems, and champions with %HP skills to deal with metagolems. By the way, most items you are listing (save liandry, which even buffed will still be a dot) can also be used by the ones who should be countered by them. Giving damage for defense is and still is a terrible idea, and I still believe Riot should have never gone down that path.