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Since Karthus is going to be nerfed, can you finally do this change?

Ahristocats··9 votes·473 views

-Cooldown reduced to 120/110/100 seconds from 200/180/160 -mana cost reduced to 100/100/100 from 175/175/175 -damage reduced to 150/250/350(+ 0.4 AP) from 250/400/550(+0.6 AP) -delay reduced to 1.75 seconds from 3 seconds

let's be honest, karthus's niche should be THE global presence mage. His ulti should make him a threat in early game to late game by helping his team across the map. Thing is that currently he can't do it well for a simple reason: it has a freaking 200 seconds cd, and not for nothing, because it deals a freaking tons of damage that would make it super broken if he could do it a lot of time. And at the same time karthus has to face a situation. Requiem needs a lot of counterplay because of reasons: -doesn't requiere any targeting -deals tons of damage this makes it need a lot of counterplay for what it does: the 3 seconds delay. But it's incredibly stupid, because it forces hard counters against him, that can either frustrate people if they don't have the right champ, or frustrate karhus because his ulti becomes COMPLETLY useless. Same with itemization, Eenemy team has nothing? your ulti will deal 1k damage x5. enemy entire team has item 3155 item 3102 /zhonya/edge of the knight? good luck because you have no ulti.

So at least, please reduce massively the coodlown of his ulti to make him fullfying his niche,and reduce the delay with the massive amount of things that counters him while lowering the damage to make it less "counter it or you're fucked".

24 Comments

Variks the Loyal5 votes

What if it pierced through barriers and spellshields? Like, Banshee's, Zhonyas, and Edge of Night, as well as personal spellshields like Sivir's?

D357R0Y3R3 votes

Then why don't you do the same for Zed ulti?

you should not do an exception for a champion, else you would have no argument to do it for the other champions. Karthus's ulti should be blocked by those mechanics and it's working as intended i agree with op's suggestion to reduce the damage while improving it entirely, it deals a retarded amount of damage if you don't counter karthus

Variks the Loyal6 votes

{quoted}

you should not do an exception for a champion, else you would have no argument to do it for the other champions.

I don't know much about Karthus. I don't play him. But I disagree with this statement entirely.

Giving a feature like that to a champion doesn't mean you have to give it to everybody. Little features and bonuses like that are what make champions unique. Champions that ignore unit collision, for example, or champions that become immune to CC. Hell, one guy becomes immune to death. It would be as simple as putting, at the bottom of the ability description, "Requiem pierces through all invulnerabilities and spellshields."

Now, again, I don't know much about Karthus. I'll concede to people that have a lot more experience playing him. But again, an 'exception' for one ability doesn't mean you need to do it for everybody.

Silverjust1 votes

how about his ult first deals a bit of damage to pop the spellshields and then deals the maindamge later

DunkinNoobs3 votes

Good Idea. Let's buff this champion. The highest winrate in the entire game among mains clearly isn't quite good enough.

http://imgur.com/a/SmCyo

Valeckserai3 votes

Yes, lets just take 4.93% of the games of a champion that is played 1.01% of the time in mid lane and treat that data as statistically significant. That makes sense. Sites like Champion.GG are good, but not for off meta champions, there simply isn't enough games to make completely accurate data on them. He hasn't been touched in the patches for ages, but sometimes the winrate of mains is up in the 70s on Karthus, other times its in the 40s. There simply aren't enough games to determine a good winrate average.

Ahristocats1 votes

don't ever use stats again, because clearly either you're trying to manipulate me, or you're so idiot you don't know that taking the games of 5 people isn't representative.

Requiemsfire1 votes

"You're so idiot"

hue.

Honestly, he's not wrong to consider the top % of Karthus players who have over 125 wins and are dedicated mains, this illustrates the difference between a skill floor and a skill ceiling that many champions have. This is why Ryze's win rate is low despite him being such a powerful champion in the right hands, this is why Azir's win rate was low before his massive nerfs despite how powerful he was when used by an experienced player. The top mains of a champion showcase the potential that a champion has to offer and that while those statistics may not be the end all, be all of relative data, they are in fact relevant to a discussion when balancing said champion.

Hyperiön2 votes

Where is it that you see this Karthus nerf?

Ahristocats1 votes

what about edge of the knight making karthus ulti inexistant in a game?

Big Lincoln1 votes

no

Ahristocats1 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Best princess EU3 votes

i think we need less people like you, how about you fcking block board on your pc and never come back?

Big Lincoln2 votes

jokes on you im mobile

Karthus doesn't need buffs and he won't need them next season

hexdrinker and banshee both for buffed this season and he's still fine. he doesn't need buffs

be less shit at Karthus

Best princess EU2 votes

"jokes on you" "karthus doesn't need buffs because i said so"

oh well, one more on the black list

Big Lincoln3 votes

"Karthus needs buffs because I said so" "I have no argument beyond adhominem"

bye

Ahristocats1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EVhes375,comment-id=00000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-19T18:23:33.085+0000)

"I have no argument beyond adhominem"

read again

Mimy1 votes

Don't worry about him.

Someone played him on PBE and well he was the enemy team's carry and I was playing Soraka. He was not short of power AT ALL.

Valeckserai1 votes

As a Karthus main I'm REALLY unsure about that damage reduction you're suggesting, at least in that drastic of an ammount. Karthus ult is already pretty damn hard to get the kill with at rank one, and is often wasted if you don't use it correctly as is. Yes, I think that lower cool down and mana reduction would be interesting to have, and lower damage would be required to make it healthy for the game, but that is a LOT of damage that is being saved off there.

Best princess EU1 votes

what good damage number would be fine for you? i'm curious

Valeckserai1 votes

Honestly, I'd leave the ap scaling and the rank one base damage alone. He's SUPPOSED to scale well into the late game, and ripping 20% ap scaling away from his ult would hurt a ton, as well as make it deal less damage than a single q, which would feel terrible since often you need to ult for only one person. The base damage rank one shouldn't be lowered in my opinion because if you're playing Karthus, there is a very good chance that you don't have any ap items built when you use your ult early game, and stripping 100 damage from it then, when it is at its weakest, would also be extremely detrimental. It is actually kind of rare that you can get a good Karthus ultimate in the early game just because of how little damage it deals. Taking base damage away from his level 2 and 3 ult? I could live with that, since by then he'll have some ap to back it up. But in all honesty, I'd rather keep his damage as close as possible to where it is, even if it means allowing for less of a buff to mana cost, cool down, or cast time. This is a biased opinion since I do main him, but I REALLY don't really want to see his damage reduced by a lot.

Ahristocats1 votes

if you do this you can't buff the cooldown massively, which is the thing that you should do to make karthus have a CLEAR niche and therefore diversity.

"his ulti will deal less damage than one Q", and? it's global, it will have a low cooldown i don't see why it is wrong.

Teémò1 votes

Karthus can just take wraith camps go into mid lane level 2 and push the wave then take enemy wraith minnions and wow he's 6 minnions ahead after first wave and almost level 3 ~ after that he pretty much guts anyone in the mid lane with ghost exhaust or flash exhaust. He's honestly one of the strongest champions in midlane. Sure he has plenty of counter play, so does zilean, but paying attention to itemization and playing around are key parts of league.

TheOvermind1 votes

Everyone seems to agree that karthus would be a lot more reliable (and you could nerf or buff accordingly afterwards) if you made his ultimate unaffected by spellshields and any form of untargetability.

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