So, anyone remember poppy?

Marshbouy·Aug 2, 2016·15 votes·1,426 views

Yeah, this poppy This poppy and this poppy Her winrates are 44, 45, and 45. That's abysmal. She's ranked as trash tier on every overall placement according to champio.gg and is not doing well at all. Her playrate tops out at 1.5% for top and below 1% for jungle and support. You are going to see a poppy top about once every 100 games, and even less support and jungle poppys. She's not doing well.

Looking at her winrate with players with over 125+ games on poppy the only one that breaks 50% is poppy support with a whopping 65% (but we all know not to judge a champions balance off just one small group of people taking a champ support ). She's doing terrible.

She definitely needs to be looked at. I'm not a rioter so i have no idea what part of her kit needs buffs, but something definitely does.

102 Comments

Violet RavenAug 2, 20165 votes

I remember her almost every day when she destroys my poor adc butthole by taking little dmg and instakilling me :(

MarshbouyAug 2, 20161 votes

She should be more utility focused than damage.

Violet RavenAug 2, 20163 votes

{quoted}

She should be more utility focused than damage. Well shes pretty useful when she can slaughter me lol. She has decent cc, but her ult makes them untargettable and her stun is pretty situational, i would be in favor of her getting more cc and less dmg. She could honestly kill me if she stunned me. There was no counter play if i was caught by a wall

RalanrAug 2, 20161 votes

Except not being caught in wall range in the first place.

Violet RavenAug 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Except not being caught in wall range in the first place.

This is mostly in the case of a lost team fight when my front line goes down and between her bonus ms and other factors like flash and Righteous Glory and such, it's quite difficult to escape on immobile adc's like ashe and jhin

RalanrAug 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

This is mostly in the case of a lost team fight when my front line goes down and between her bonus ms and other factors like flash and Righteous Glory and such, it's quite difficult to escape on immobile adc's like ashe and jhin

Well that's the weakness of an immobile champion.

Violet RavenAug 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Well that's the weakness of an immobile champion.

Then what is the weakness of poppy, she takes a long time to kill, high mobility, has cc, where does it end? Why not make a tank a tank and a carry a carry, we dont need hybrids because they take away from the independent ones

RalanrAug 2, 20161 votes

I wouldn't call her speed boost a lot of mobility. Plus her CC is dependent on walls (the stun anyway).

The range nerf on her E gave her a big reliability weakness.

Violet RavenAug 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I wouldn't call her speed boost a lot of mobility. Plus her CC is dependent on walls (the stun anyway).

The range nerf on her E gave her a big reliability weakness.

Her speed boost is a lot compared to champions who have none, granted i think garen is a larger problem, im just a whiny adc that will always hate high dmg tanks

RalanrAug 2, 20161 votes

To be fair, anything is high damage when it comes to killing ADCs.

And Garen isn't a tank.

Violet RavenAug 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, anything is high damage when it comes to killing ADCs.

And Garen isn't a tank.

He's pretty damn tanky, and I think in the client he's titled a tank.

RalanrAug 2, 20161 votes

It titles him as a fighter/tank. Aka: a Juggernaut.

Tanky==Tank.

Violet RavenAug 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It titles him as a fighter/tank. Aka: a Juggernaut.

Tanky==Tank.

Ok, too tanky for the absurd amount of dmg he does. Im just complaining and you telling me that hes allowed to be a tank and have lots of dmg bc his title is fighter/tank does not make me change my opinion. I will always hate garen, I'm fine as an adc playing against darius, maokai, rammus, anyone not able to add 60 movement speed and fly towards me bc i suck too much at league to position in advance for a calculation like a garen going mach 5 running my ass down and killing me with one q and his ult

kasfasAug 3, 20161 votes

He doesn't actually do that much damage ( comparatively to other juggernauts) unless ahead or hitting the villain.

Plus with the amount of slows nowadays he should never be able to reach you to do any of that damage anyway.

SpoofghoulAug 2, 20164 votes

its the range nerfs on all her abilities this made her unplayable

they could have nerfed the base damage in favor of better scalings but they decided to gut her abilty ranges and now she is just trash

LimrickAug 3, 20164 votes

Riot picks favorites, they were happy to make Poppy completely useless, but they tried their best to not have to nerf Zed a while back. Not to mention Ekko, Kindred, and Azir, who all took several patches of huge nerfs to finally just make them not OP.

Chamuel85Aug 2, 20163 votes

The thing is that after her rework so was too strong. Very much too strong. Like top contender for Top/Jungle/Support. must pick ban. So they had to take away a lot of her kit. It just has too much (as reworks seem to have these days). It's hard to know what to adjust without making it too much.

MarshbouyAug 2, 20162 votes

If they poke around at her damage or cooldowns it might not be too terrible. A champion should not just be left in the gutter. Nautilus was about at the same area as poppy is. They threw up some weird changes on the PBE, they could probably try the same thing for poppy.

Chamuel85Aug 2, 20161 votes

Yeah, Honestly I'm surprised that they didn't try adjusting her numbers more. She was so high profile that they couldn't have forgotten about her. I think they just don't know how to buff her without putting her over the top. Not sure. I love the new Poppy.

MarshbouyAug 2, 20162 votes

They nerfed her range and utility which was needed, but then they just left her to die. she's been like this for quite some time too.

Malix FarwinAug 3, 20163 votes

{quoted}

The thing is that after her rework so was too strong. Very much too strong. Like top contender for Top/Jungle/Support. must pick ban. So they had to take away a lot of her kit. It just has too much (as reworks seem to have these days). It's hard to know what to adjust without making it too much.

no i think you are mistaken. The items she built was too strong mixed with over buffing. They nerfed the items and gutted her hard. She can get pushed to her turret by almost every top laner she is in no better state then she was pre-rework(in fact she was in a better state pre-rework).

lolipopevelynnAug 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The thing is that after her rework so was too strong. Very much too strong. Like top contender for Top/Jungle/Support. must pick ban. So they had to take away a lot of her kit. It just has too much (as reworks seem to have these days). It's hard to know what to adjust without making it too much.

she wasnt that strong. voli and udy still was and still is broken atleast for jg.

Lord GalvatronAug 2, 20162 votes

She's the victim of multiple panic nerfs when they release the rework/a new champion. This almost happened to Darius and Jhin, but people begged then to wait before they made more nerfs and they ended up not even nerfing them (guess what? both are still in a rly good spot now).

Unfortunately, no one stood up for Poppy and she got dumpstered because of it. So now we have a champion that is doing actually worse post-rework then pre-rework.

MiraweaveAug 2, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Goon Platoon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ER0IlqWW,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-08-02T15:33:41.469+0000)

She's the victim of multiple panic nerfs when they release the rework/a new champion. This almost happened to Darius and Jhin, but people begged then to wait before they made more nerfs and they ended up not even nerfing them (guess what? both are still in a rly good spot now).

Unfortunately, no one stood up for Poppy and she got dumpstered because of it. So now we have a champion that is doing actually worse post-rework then pre-rework.

If by "panic nerfs" you mean she was the best toplaner in the game for three months, then sure.

MarshbouyAug 2, 20164 votes

Incorrect. She was a top tier toplaner for a long time until she got some heavy nerfs in a patch. They never buffed her back up, and she still needs those buffs.

I agree. she is doing worse post rework than pre rework.

My Waifu VanillaAug 2, 20161 votes

The problem I have is that she is very difficult to balance. Giving her her waveclear on Q back (returning the bonus damage to minions) would be a start, but we should keep her damage SOMEWHAT in line against champions since she was 100-0'ing a lot of people after her rework and buffs while you were stunned/stasis'ed. Making her passive not throw the shield randomly would also be a start since half the time it goes behind you so the shield is absolutely useless if you want to trade in lane (at least give it psuedo Draven physics where you can guide it). Another option is to make her ult charge a bit faster since right now it sits at min range for a good while and then goes really fast to max range and simply making it an instant increase would still keep the double tap (if you want to), but make it more feasible to actually disengage with the ult instead of sitting at a min range knockback for a good while just asking to get interrupted.

kasfasAug 3, 20161 votes

It never had bonus damage against minions. It had REDUCED damage vs minions.

Lord GalvatronAug 2, 20161 votes

If you mean a long time you mean the time between patch 6.2 (when she was buffed initially after her release because she was super janky), and 6.7 (which was the proverbial "straw that broke the camels back" she was nerfed the 2nd time. (Patches 6.3, and 6.7 respectfully). The problem is the fact that they don't take a step back and analyze the long term situation because it does take that much time to analyze new/reworked champions and how people play them. The fact that with Poppy they didn't wait and they just nerfed her across the board again and called it a day without waiting for people to play against her. Unfortunately, Riot has this tendency to not revert the nerfs and so Poppy is trash-tier atm.

MarshbouyAug 2, 20161 votes

She trash tier. Naturally people on the boards just hate her for existing.

Lord GalvatronAug 3, 20161 votes

When champions are trash tier people don't hate them, they hate the people that made them trash tier in the first place,

RalanrAug 3, 20162 votes

Shall I direct you to SmashGizmo?

Lord GalvatronAug 3, 20161 votes

SmashGizmo?

RalanrAug 3, 20161 votes

RiotSmashGizmo was the one who was in charge of her "gutting" last I remember. There were points on his twitter at the time where he expressed his opinion that Poppy was, "A wee bit too strong"

I'm not quoting correctly because it was a while ago.

Edit: And I'd love to know why he removed the AA RESET!

MarshbouyAug 3, 20161 votes

there are people in this thread saying that she should stay trash tier

Lord GalvatronAug 3, 20165 votes

And those people are trash tier themselves. Only an idiot would wish that a champion that took dozens of people's time, money, and effort would completely go to waste.

RalanrAug 3, 20161 votes

Can...Can I hug you? I love this logic.

MarshbouyAug 3, 20161 votes

Does that mean they don't exist? no. the people who hate her do exist. Even if they are trash tier.

Lord GalvatronAug 3, 20161 votes

I never denied the existence of those people. After all that's the reason why we have these insane and illogical responses to these threads.

TheDeviceAug 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

there are people in this thread saying that she should stay trash tier

This is the community. They are perfectly okay with their champions being in good spots but dont give a flying fuck if somebody elses are sent to the garbage bin.

I tend to agree that Riot themselves play favorites. Poppy did too good of a job at what she was designed to counter; high mobility dash champions. Fine, maybe she did too good and obviously exceeded that job by also being a powerhouse and stun locking champions against walls.

But why nerf her so hard that she can't even accomplish what she was designed for? High mobile champs are always pawed at and are carefully nerfed in small doses (if any nerfs come at all). They did two small dose nerfs and then completely gutted her along with the ambient nerfs to her itemization.

Now her stats don't matter for some reason lol.

GULAG 4 UAug 4, 20161 votes

It's called bias. Most of the boards would be more than happy if yasuo was trash tier. Because they're stupid and fcking suck. It's easy to counter yasuo. It's not straight up like how you counter kha'zix. (Stand near your goddamn minions!). It's less obvious, but people would rather bitch about how he's "AIDS"

Lord GalvatronAug 4, 20161 votes

I concur.

GULAG 4 UAug 4, 20161 votes

And yeah, that sucks.

Lord GalvatronAug 4, 20161 votes

RIP NA Gameplay board

Sire HippingtonAug 3, 20162 votes

Imo her main issue is very similar as with Zac: the passive is fine if not overtuned number wise, but far to unreliable outside of 1v1. In teamfights, you prettymuch have to get lucky to get you passive shield, especially vs opponents that are aware of it. Aditionally, her passive is quite a bit clunky as the AA-animation for the passive is slower than for her normal AAs, for whatever reason.

So what poppy needs is a fixed AA-animation for her passive and buffs that help her getting the shield in teamfights, like changeing it so opponents have to stay on it for ~0.25-.5sec to destroy it rather than instantly deleting it on a mere touch, which also would alow to oush opponents over the shield with E to pick it up. A short invulnerabillity after dropping would also help a lot, it does happen quite often to me that it drops directly into the path of an opponent and gets deleted prettymuch the moment it touches the ground, not giving the slightest chance for me to pick it up. A small ms buff when walking towards it would also be neat.

Asides from that, it would be nice if poppy wouldn't make opponents untargetable with her ult, especially with the snapcast. Poppy has quite a skillcap mostly because of her ult, it is so easy to screw your team withit it instead of helping, like Bard's ult.

But in terms of raw damage, cc and potential tankiness, she's definitly strong enough.

RalanrAug 2, 20161 votes

The problem is that she isn't meant to be strong in solo but great in team coordinated plays (though if DQ really is all premades then her scores are really worrisome).

She was my favorite jungler before the gutting (it was a gutting. Nerfs affect damage and duration, a gutting involves taking away integral parts of a kit). After the shortening of her E range and removal of the AA reset on her passive, jungling with her became a chore instead of a fun time. So much that I stopped playing her (I really don't like her in top. I'm too lonely up there and she needs her team to work).

I want the AA reset back at least. I'm fine with the shortened range on her passive, but why remove the AA reset?!

MarshbouyAug 2, 20163 votes

Totally true. She is team reliant but with a winrate of 45% and a 49% max with 125+ games, that's pretty telling of an overnerfed champion.

The aa reset probably wasn't an issue, she didn't need it removed. Her ranges were a tad excessive though.

MunchCrunchLunchAug 3, 20164 votes

{quoted}

The problem is that she isn't meant to be strong in solo but great in team coordinated plays (though if DQ really is all premades then her scores are really worrisome).

She was my favorite jungler before the gutting (it was a gutting. Nerfs affect damage and duration, a gutting involves taking away integral parts of a kit). After the shortening of her E range and removal of the AA reset on her passive, jungling with her became a chore instead of a fun time. So much that I stopped playing her (I really don't like her in top. I'm too lonely up there and she needs her team to work).

I want the AA reset back at least. I'm fine with the shortened range on her passive, but why remove the AA reset?!

thats bs. nobody even plays her in lcs anymore. people still pick ekko sometimes after his nerfs. the problem with poppy. is that as you know. they nerfed. HER reliability. Thats the only. fucking thing. that kept her in. poppy. does no damage. she can't dive an adc like ekko or irelia and kill them. hell a full ad poppy can't do that most likely. she has low base damages and low scaling. her knock up mages enemies untargetable. and thats her fucking ultimate. meanwhile alistar gets a knockup into a stun that is a basic ability. ashe winrate is near 54% and shes one of adcs that require a lot of team coordination. your initial argument is meaningless. poppy is poor in general. at least give her some damage that shes reliable in solo play and less than used to be reliable in pro play because those range nerfs. are fucking abyssmal. those nerfs are the hardest nerf to any champion I've ever seen in my whole 1 year of league. and poppy's winrate was barely 52% at the time. i think it was 51.5%. and she was getting countered by trundle in pro play. and look at trundle. got 2 SMALL. and by small. I mean so fucking tiny a single cellular organism can read its fine line. meanwhile poppy got 3 of the harshest nerfs i've ever seen.

the best stat. in league of legends. is range. look at kassadin and akali. both champs lost so much range and now kassadin is trash. look at azir. why is he a problem? his range. gangplank. same thing. range provides uninteractive way to beat your opponent. it lacks counterplay and counter itemization as items work same way with and against ranged as melee. one of the big faults of league of legends design.

but poppy's range on her E is interactive because she actually dives in and puts herself in risk. why the hell do you nerf that?

poppy's was picked in pro play. for obvious reasons. is because. nearly 80% of top laners have been nerfed too hard because riot likes adc's and mid laners to carry games riot likes the whole lame tanks bs to be top lane which is why they nerf every top laner. , most top laners can't team fight for jack shit. and another reason why a lot of them are just unviable most of the time for pro play. poppy was picked because shes a tank that has a decent laning phase and is a safe pick overall. she isn't a lane bully and she isn't a carry. she isn't the tankiest champion. and she doesn't do a whole damage. she has situational cc. and a single stun and her ult is quite simply rarely useful outside of the knock up that is again just like the knock back rarely useful.

RalanrAug 3, 20161 votes

I'm just saying what Meddler told me when I asked about her low winrate. He compared her to Lee Sin in that regard I think.

kasfasAug 3, 20161 votes

But I love poppy! I can shred games with her. She still has enough damage to be a threat and the 20% max hp shield makes you really tanky. I think people are playing her wrong is all. She is weakest post 6 and before her first item. (I normally get sundries for waveclear) and I assume people go in for trades before then as opposed to at her power spike.

Also, she's very team oriented so most people won't do well with her trying to go for kills and be the carry. Your job is to protect your carries from diving threats.

MarshbouyAug 3, 20162 votes

If the people with 125+ games with her still aren't doing well, there is an issue. Just because you are good at poppy does not mean she is balanced.