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Riot Already Said They Aren't Giving Morde CC or Mobility

LifeCyclesTWA··14 votes·1,125 views

So stop asking for it. The champion has a ridiculous amount of power to make up for his lack of mobility or cc.

All you are going to do by complaining is force Riot to change him in ways totally unnecessary (FE: they reduced his health costs... but nerfed his health regen) The guy is unpopular and will always be unpopular due to his lack of cc or mobility, so get over it and stop trying to ruin the experiences of players such as myself who actually enjoy playing the champion very much.

And stop building him glass cannon for fuck sake, he has no cc or mobility and is a melee champion. High base damage + low CDs with tankiness and cdr/mag pen for the win.

Here are 2 players that made it to Master and Diamond 1 rank playing Mordekaiser near EXCLUSIVELY! PROOF that he is fine as is. They can pick him every damn game and climb the ladder. http://www.lolking.net/summoner/tr/2490153#matches http://www.lolking.net/summoner/euw/32672337

ALSO!! To the people asking "why not add a slow or a stun to his Q??" What would that fix? His problem as a champion is that he'd can't in range of someone to Q them in the first place, what would a stun on his Q fix?

So basically what you are saying is riot should nerf the rate at which he gains his shield which is extremely important to his survival (because they are going to have to nerf something to make up for this cc they gave him), to give his Q a stun... which he will never be able to land because he doesn't have mobility... unless someone jumps up on him or stands still waiting for him to smack them? This makes no sense at all.

Its like when people were crying about his sustain in lane, then Riot lowered his health costs but had to lower his health regen to compensate for that. Good lord, you people don't think at all. Quit fucking with Mordekaiser. EDIT: Wanted to add this discussion to the thread.

{quoted}

Such as:

  • His gutted early game?
  • His almost non-existent damage with overall not so impressive scaling?
  • His gimmicky and situational OP sustain that only ever works when he is incredibly fed?
  • His again, gimmicky and situational OP ulti that only ever works when the ignite's off cd and/or when the enemy is fed (who somehow made a stupid mistake and died)? And it took a bat too.

Where is his ridiculous amount of power? I wanna see it!

If he is meant to have 0 mobility and cc, fine I can live with it. But in exchange he needs to have either an okay-ish power with a ridiculous scaling or a ridiculous early game with an alright late game at the very least, which he has none of those atm.

My response:

  1. Anyone would agree a full-build Mordekaiser is among the scariest champs in the whole entire game, so yes, the hit to his early game was very damn necessary. To call it gutted is a massive exaggeration though, he has an aoe with 700 range that has little-to-no counterplay at all. This is partly why he has no CC or mobility. His E lands instantaneously, there is no avoiding it at all, and is the skill that single-handedly allows Mordekaiser to consistently beat down on melee opponents. If you lack sustain or a means to gap close on Mord, you will be hurting. That is why Mordekaiser struggles vs Xin Zhao and Yorick, they both have great sustain and can both punish Mord as much if not more than he punishes them. Most champions are not capable of this though. Garen gets ripped apart by Mord, Mord beats Renekton, etc...

If you see Garen, one of the strongest early game champs in the game, come at you, pop your Q, put W on yourself, and E him in the face. If he chases you past your minion wave, he is taking damage from an enhanced Q. Either way, you won the trade and can zone him from his minions with your constant E harass he buys MR, which he will be forced to do. Renekton doesn't have a gap-closer near as reliable as Xin Zhao's, just play this lane safe, he pushes the lane anyways for rage/sustain, just keep your distance and hit him with E/enhanced Q if he tries to zone you from your creeps. If he tries to duel you post-6 hit him with your ult to keep your health up, no way in hell is he going to kill you without assistance from his jungler. You outscale those 2, btw. These are 2 matchups against guys that are typically very powerful early but weak late that you can win and outscale very strongly.

  1. His almost non-existent damage with overall not so impressive scaling? Dude, you're high. Contrary to that, he actually has some of the BEST scaling in the whole game, especially with built tank+magic pen. Here is a comment I made on another thread about Tank Morde's ult vs the common AP Morde's

"His ult works well with "tank Morde" for 4 reasons btw:

  1. The ghost dies early if you die, so you being harder to kill = the ghost lasts much longer.
  2. The ghost gains 75% of your total health as health, and gives you 25% of its bonus health as extra health.
  3. All of the damage it does raises your passive shielding, so when you build tank and have 200+ armor and mr late game with their ADC ghosted... you are unkillable.
  4. Because of your really high armor and mr you make very damn good use of all the healing your ghost provides. Keep in mind you heal yourself for 100% of the damage dealt by the spell, an additional 35% of the damage dealt is put towards restoring your health, and all damage the ghost does raises your passive shield, resulting in nonstop mass regeneration of your passive shield, effectively rendering you unkillable."

When you build large amounts of armor and mr in combination with magic pen, the rate at which you build your shield is awesome AND the shield is VERY powerful. 630 health + 200 armor/mr.... how much effective health is that? And it is EASILY attainable, and with your short CDs it is EASILY built back up. This guy is a monster, fed or not. Not to mention all of his damage is AoE, high base damage, and low CDs.

  1. Again, as stated before, you do not need to be fed. Just build tanky with magic pen. Thankfully, tank items are cheap and Mordekaiser is the among the best farmers in the whole entire game.

  2. You are a new to Mordekaiser if you try to use his ultimate as a means to burst some 100-0. In fact, I strongly believe ignite is a massive noob trap as Mordekaiser. Grab teleport and go top, dude. You know how to last hit right? Use your ultimate as a last hitting tool against enemy champions. You are guaranteed 100% so long as you are around the teamfight from start to finish to grab a ghost if you use it as a last hitting tool. Guaranteed. And that ghost will either be a tank, an AP champion, or someone with high AD. If you grab a tank, congrats you just got a massive heal, a full shield, an 25% of their bonus health as health for you, not to mention the ghost is using all of their items. You grabbed an AD champion? Awesome! They get a 100 AD bonus because of your ult in addition to all of their damage raising your shield. You are very fucking hard to kill and are dealing a very damn good amount of damage. When you build tanky as hell, you don't need to say "oh shit, almost got burst down, better ult someone to heal up." No, you take a beating then last hit someone then use that someone to make you even harder to kill and give you a large dps increase. Build him tanky, its 100x more effective than your Glass-Cannon build which makes no sense at all on a melee-champion with no CC or mobility.

48 Comments

Laughing Fish6 votes

Downvoted for the attitude. http://i.imgur.com/Kxiin.gif

LifeCyclesTWA3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Laughing Fish,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EQZTdyeQ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-05-12T12:27:42.280+0000)

Downvoted for the attitude. http://i.imgur.com/Kxiin.gif

Take your favorite champion, and have the community make 2-5 threads a day about how your favorite champion needs a rework when he really doesn't. Then, have Riot change your champion based on the opinion of those same unskilled, uneducated players. That is why I am frustrated. I have 1k+ games as Mordekaiser, he doesn't need any sort of power given to him or taken away. He is in a great spot.

Laughing Fish9 votes

Nobody listens when you talk like that. Whether you are right or not becomes irrelevant, as they stopped listening. If you actually want to change people's opinion, referring to them as "unskilled, uneducated players" is not the way. If you don't care if people listen, then why make the post? If you want others to respect your opinion, you need to at least pretend you respect theirs. http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/deal_with_it_obama.gif

GundayMonday3 votes

He has good points though. I don't think his attitude is that bad. Players that don't understand the champ are making blatantly false claims. He is saying a different viewpoint. That's all.

stuartk112 votes

{quoted}

Take your favorite champion, and have the community make 2-5 threads a day about how your favorite champion needs a rework when he really doesn't. Then, have Riot change your champion based on the opinion of those same unskilled, uneducated players. That is why I am frustrated. I have 1k+ games as Mordekaiser, he doesn't need any sort of power given to him or taken away. He is in a great spot.

While I don't think he's as bad as some people make him out to be, I definitely disagree with him being in a "great spot". Mostly due to the large hit to his HP regen on a champion that uses health as a cost to cast spells. I usually start cloth armour + 5 health potions to try and counter-act this, but it does still seem a little low. He is also a short ranged champion who is almost solely reliant on the enemy choosing to engage poorly for success, which is a large issue that I have.

LifeCyclesTWA1 votes

{quoted}

While I don't think he's as bad as some people make him out to be, I definitely disagree with him being in a "great spot". Mostly due to the large hit to his HP regen on a champion that uses health as a cost to cast spells. I usually start cloth armour + 5 health potions to try and counter-act this, but it does still seem a little low. He is also a short ranged champion who is almost solely reliant on the enemy choosing to engage poorly for success, which is a large issue that I have.

replied to your post and Sekai's below.

stuartk112 votes

{quoted}

replied to your post and Sekai's below.

Sekai seems to have a different opinion about Morde than I do. He feels he is "gutted" (people throw this term about too much, btw), while I don't think he is as strong as you mae him out to be. I'm not sold on his top lane viability. I agree, it's probably better than mid-lane, but having your team's main front-line champion lack any sort of engage potential or any disruption or utility of much note does make him feel lacking in comparison to some of the other options available up there. His early game, while not "stellar" can be descent enough to match up favourably against some other scaling champions that are put up there, but using your abilities too freely will push the wave and drain your health surprisingly fast. Pushing the wave with Mordekaiser is not always a smart option, but is sometimes needed for harass against the laning opponent, though can leave you very easy to gank, especially with little sustain. If you get to the late game, you can be descent if the enemy engages onto your team, but you lack the ability to engage onto them. Having your main engage potential be limited to simply "walking at the enemy" is crippling for most top-laners. You are strongest when you are able to find your way into the middle of a fight, and have the fight be drawn out (easier to have drawn out fights with the current "tank" meta). Your DPS can become pretty good, but you still have low range, and require too much to merely fall in your favour before he can be considered strong enough to be worth picking.

LifeCyclesTWA1 votes

{quoted}

Sekai seems to have a different opinion about Morde than I do. He feels he is "gutted" (people throw this term about too much, btw), while I don't think he is as strong as you mae him out to be. I'm not sold on his top lane viability. I agree, it's probably better than mid-lane, but having your team's main front-line champion lack any sort of engage potential or any disruption or utility of much note does make him feel lacking in comparison to some of the other options available up there. His early game, while not "stellar" can be descent enough to match up favourably against some other scaling champions that are put up there, but using your abilities too freely will push the wave and drain your health surprisingly fast. Pushing the wave with Mordekaiser is not always a smart option, but is sometimes needed for harass against the laning opponent, though can leave you very easy to gank, especially with little sustain. If you get to the late game, you can be descent if the enemy engages onto your team, but you lack the ability to engage onto them. Having your main engage potential be limited to simply "walking at the enemy" is crippling for most top-laners. You are strongest when you are able to find your way into the middle of a fight, and have the fight be drawn out (easier to have drawn out fights with the current "tank" meta). Your DPS can become pretty good, but you still have low range, and require too much to merely fall in your favour before he can be considered strong enough to be worth picking.

A lot of the points you use can be used with other top laners such as Darius, Garen, Vladimir or Renekton. All those either push the waves with their abilities, has no gapcloser, or both. Darius in particular has trouble entering fights. With this meta, so long as you have a jungler that can initiate alla Malphite, Sejuani, Amumu, etc... you have the tools to be a force. Its a weakness of the champion, not something that can be reworked or changed. They intentionally made Mordekaiser with the inability to close gaps. Any argument you can use about Mordekaiser being fundamentally flawed you can use against others as well. Anything poor about Mordekaiser is by design, and in return he has access to things that would OP in other champion's kit in the game (his E, his ult, and his very damn good passive)

Also, the point you made about him losing health and pushing the wave with his abilities... you do not have to push the wave as Mordekaiser. You do not have to spam his abilities, in the same light that you don't have to spam abilities if you have mana in fear of running out of mana. He gave up mana restriction for minor health costs, this is a benefit not a negative. It may hurt him a little bit early, but is not even noticable mid-late game which is a strength.

stuartk112 votes

{quoted}

A lot of the points you use can be used with other top laners such as Darius, Garen, Vladimir or Renekton. All those either push the waves with their abilities, has no gapcloser, or both. Darius in particular has trouble entering fights. With this meta, so long as you have a jungler that can initiate alla Malphite, Sejuani, Amumu, etc... you have the tools to be a force. Its a weakness of the champion, not something that can be reworked or changed. They intentionally made Mordekaiser with the inability to close gaps. Any argument you can use about Mordekaiser being fundamentally flawed you can use against others as well. Anything poor about Mordekaiser is by design, and in return he has access to things that would OP in other champion's kit in the game (his E, his ult, and his very damn good passive)

Also, the point you made about him losing health and pushing the wave with his abilities... you do not have to push the wave as Mordekaiser. You do not have to spam his abilities, in the same light that you don't have to spam abilities if you have mana in fear of running out of mana. He gave up mana restriction for minor health costs, this is a benefit not a negative. It may hurt him a little bit early, but is not even noticable mid-late game which is a strength.

Doesn't Darius have the ability to pull the target towards him, though? That is one of the best initiation methods in the game, though better with champions such as Blitzcrank, since it also separates them from the rest of their team. Renekton and Garen are not very popular because of the same weakness, though Garen can sometimes be picked since, besides his large weakness, he can punish his opponent in the lane to try and keep them down. Vladimir is picked for different reasons, since he has great sustain and his ultimate can dish out some serious hurt. Also, even if it is supposed to be the main weakness of a champion, it doesn't deprive the argument that I originally made. That being, picking him as a top laner is not a wise option, because he lacks engage, has a weaker laning phase, has a short range and brings little utility at all for his team. He needs too much to be in his favour to be effective, especially in comparison to a lot of other top laners who can bring much more, such as disruption, engage potential, more tankiness or even more damage.

LifeCyclesTWA1 votes

{quoted}

Doesn't Darius have the ability to pull the target towards him, though? That is one of the best initiation methods in the game, though better with champions such as Blitzcrank, since it also separates them from the rest of their team. Renekton and Garen are not very popular because of the same weakness, though Garen can sometimes be picked since, besides his large weakness, he can punish his opponent in the lane to try and keep them down. Vladimir is picked for different reasons, since he has great sustain and his ultimate can dish out some serious hurt. Also, even if it is supposed to be the main weakness of a champion, it doesn't deprive the argument that I originally made. That being, picking him as a top laner is not a wise option, because he lacks engage, has a weaker laning phase, has a short range and brings little utility at all for his team. He needs too much to be in his favour to be effective, especially in comparison to a lot of other top laners who can bring much more, such as disruption, engage potential, more tankiness or even more damage.

Darius's pull has a brief delay then yes it pulls, but only from 550 range and has a 24 second CD at rank 1, 12 seconds at rank 5. The range doesn't allow it to be used as initiation, however it can be used to peel if you are using darius to protect your carry.

You said "picking him as a top laner is not a wise option, because he lacks engage, has a weaker laning phase, has short range, and brings little utility for at all for his team."

He does lack initiation, but so do many other popular tops. Riven cannot initiate a teamfight, she has to come in later after all CC is blown and she is a popular top. Other tops that cannot initiate a teamfight include Darius, Garen, Renekton, Rumble, Vladimir, Dr. Mundo, Fiora, Irelia, Jayce, Tryndamere, Jax, Shyvana, etc...

Infact, most initiators are typical junglers and supports such as Leona, Amumu, Sejuani, Malphite, etc... Those can charge into the middle of a crowd and CC a load of people.

Also, Mordekaiser beats most tops in the laning phase WITH his superior range. His E has 700 range and is reliable harass.

His biggest weakness is his lack of utility, which everyone in the game but him and Master Yi bring. However, like Yi, he makes up for this with raw damage potential. Difference between the two is where Master Yi has mobility, Mordekaiser as tankiness. Mordekaiser is hard as hell to kill and makes a great frontliner, and is able to put out more damage than any other frontliner in the game in late game. Very few bruisers offer more tankiness than Morde, and no top laner brings as much damage to the table as Mord. He is as tanky if not more than a bruiser, and brings about as much damage to the table as a carry.

stuartk112 votes

{quoted}

Darius's pull has a brief delay then yes it pulls, but only from 550 range and has a 24 second CD at rank 1, 12 seconds at rank 5. The range doesn't allow it to be used as initiation, however it can be used to peel if you are using darius to protect your carry.

You said "picking him as a top laner is not a wise option, because he lacks engage, has a weaker laning phase, has short range, and brings little utility for at all for his team."

He does lack initiation, but so do many other popular tops. Riven cannot initiate a teamfight, she has to come in later after all CC is blown and she is a popular top. Other tops that cannot initiate a teamfight include Darius, Garen, Renekton, Rumble, Vladimir, Dr. Mundo, Fiora, Irelia, Jayce, Tryndamere, Jax, Shyvana, etc...

Infact, most initiators are typical junglers and supports such as Leona, Amumu, Sejuani, Malphite, etc... Those can charge into the middle of a crowd and CC a load of people.

Also, Mordekaiser beats most tops in the laning phase WITH his superior range. His E has 700 range and is reliable harass.

His biggest weakness is his lack of utility, which everyone in the game but him and Master Yi bring. However, like Yi, he makes up for this with raw damage potential. Difference between the two is where Master Yi has mobility, Mordekaiser as tankiness. Mordekaiser is hard as hell to kill and makes a great frontliner, and is able to put out more damage than any other frontliner in the game in late game. Very few bruisers offer more tankiness than Morde, and no top laner brings as much damage to the table as Mord. He is as tanky if not more than a bruiser, and brings about as much damage to the table as a carry.

I must correct a few of your assumptions here.

Riven has pretty descent initiation potential, considering that she has the tools to close the gap to the enemy and hard CC to follow up on it. Though I suspect that Riven was more of a bad example than anything else. Any other popular top lane picks have mobility to catch up with the opponent, and great disruption (usually in the form of CC). Mordekaiser lacks either of these. His domination in lane is also a bit of an exaggeration. There are, however, special instances of champions who lack this. They'll usually need to have a really good reason to picked though. These being champions such as Rumble, Vladimir and Jayce, who instead of building to be purely tanky, are built more like carries. They'll build items that can give them defensive stats, yes, but they're not the team's tanks. Their only way of being viable is to build damage. They'll usually be used for one reason only (Jayce has descent poke, Rumble has a fight-changing ultimate and Vladimir has descent sustain and strong ultimate).

If you rely on everything in the game aligning perfectly for you to get your damage off, then it isn't reliable enough of a pick to call strong. If you follow this thinking, then champions who can out-damage Mordekaiser while bringing utility include Rumble, Nasus, Jax, Azir and Master Yi to name a few. He's not exactly special, and he isn't as tanky as you make him out to be. Building bruiser does have it's disadvantages too, such as having less tankiness. Mordekaiser will not end up being tanky unless he is left completely untouched in a fight, which results in the tankiness being less relevant since you were not being concentrated in the first place, and were unable to peel for your team, or offer initiation, or follow up on any initiation with much relative success. He is lacking massively, and cannot be considered to be a strong pick as you suggest.

However, if you are having success with him in the top lane, then don't stop abusing it. In soloQ, many players can make less than optimal choices all the time, and if you're looking to abuse it, then Mordekaiser is a great option for that. It's just his reliance on the enemy team making a mistake to have an effect that ultimately makes him, in my eyes, not worth playing. But whatever works for you. Especially if you plan on focusing the neutral objectives on the map.

LifeCyclesTWA1 votes

{quoted}

I must correct a few of your assumptions here.

Riven has pretty descent initiation potential, considering that she has the tools to close the gap to the enemy and hard CC to follow up on it. Though I suspect that Riven was more of a bad example than anything else. Any other popular top lane picks have mobility to catch up with the opponent, and great disruption (usually in the form of CC). Mordekaiser lacks either of these. His domination in lane is also a bit of an exaggeration. There are, however, special instances of champions who lack this. They'll usually need to have a really good reason to picked though. These being champions such as Rumble, Vladimir and Jayce, who instead of building to be purely tanky, are built more like carries. They'll build items that can give them defensive stats, yes, but they're not the team's tanks. Their only way of being viable is to build damage. They'll usually be used for one reason only (Jayce has descent poke, Rumble has a fight-changing ultimate and Vladimir has descent sustain and strong ultimate).

If you rely on everything in the game aligning perfectly for you to get your damage off, then it isn't reliable enough of a pick to call strong. If you follow this thinking, then champions who can out-damage Mordekaiser while bringing utility include Rumble, Nasus, Jax, Azir and Master Yi to name a few. He's not exactly special, and he isn't as tanky as you make him out to be. Building bruiser does have it's disadvantages too, such as having less tankiness. Mordekaiser will not end up being tanky unless he is left completely untouched in a fight, which results in the tankiness being less relevant since you were not being concentrated in the first place, and were unable to peel for your team, or offer initiation, or follow up on any initiation with much relative success. He is lacking massively, and cannot be considered to be a strong pick as you suggest.

However, if you are having success with him in the top lane, then don't stop abusing it. In soloQ, many players can make less than optimal choices all the time, and if you're looking to abuse it, then Mordekaiser is a great option for that. It's just his reliance on the enemy team making a mistake to have an effect that ultimately makes him, in my eyes, not worth playing. But whatever works for you. Especially if you plan on focusing the neutral objectives on the map.

Riven cannot initiate though, because she is built full AD. If she initiated before building defensive items should we get blown up. However, she can disrupt the hell out of a fight for sure.

And I would argue that Mordekaiser is a very reliable pick, again he makes up in damage what he lacks in utility. No top in the game aside from a fed Nasus can match how much potential damage and tankiness Morde has to offer. Half the champions you mentioned as out-damaging Mord would die instantaneously if focused.

Check out these accounts:

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/tr/2490153#ranked-stats http://www.lolking.net/summoner/euw/32672337#ranked-stats

A master rank and a diamond 1 rank player, both of which play almost exclusively Mordekaiser. Imagine picking one champion and playing only that one champion for better or worse no matter what your team comp is, and making it all the way to master or diamond 1 as only that champion. It seems to me that the pick isn't as situational as you believe. I strongly believe that you and 99% of the playerbase are massively undermining just how much damage Mordekaiser is capable of, the strength of his laning phase (it is far from the worst), and how much of a game changer he is. He is a character that is very damn hard to kill, needs to be focused or he will wreck your team, and if he does get focused you better pray his carries don't destroy you. He is a champion that thrives in teamfights. He won't get first blood. Hell, he'll probably get ganked and die during the laning phase due to his lack of mobility. But he will lead the game in farm, and come teamfights, he will wreck.

As far as you saying he is overly reliant on the enemy team making mistakes, perhaps during the laning phase that is true, but during the teamfighting phase he is more reliant on his own team than anything else. Mordekaiser isn't going to carry a team that is performing poorly, however, he will be the difference maker in a close match. He is that champion that says "Its a close game and I am on your team, it is gg." Because that is how powerful he is. That is why players can play him exclusively and get so far up the ladder.

3tyson1 votes

{quoted}

Take your favorite champion, and have the community make 2-5 threads a day about how your favorite champion needs a rework when he really doesn't. Then, have Riot change your champion based on the opinion of those same unskilled, uneducated players. That is why I am frustrated. I have 1k+ games as Mordekaiser, he doesn't need any sort of power given to him or taken away. He is in a great spot.

Frustrating im happy nid is a bit less viable cause of how op tanks r now there where rework/nerf nids all day and they also reworked zilean wich was one of my favorites...

qetzel3 votes

What if the favourite champion of the people making those threads is Mordekaiser? Surely their opinion on how he feels is as important as yours.

LifeCyclesTWA1 votes

{quoted}

What if the favourite champion of the people making those threads is Mordekaiser? Surely their opinion on how he feels is as important as yours.

If Mordekaiser is truly their favorite champion they wouldn't say things like, "You can't lane with him anyone with his shit regen" or "he needs a complete rework from the ground up, he has no CC or mobility"

I've played him since the day he was released and am a huge fan, I am not blind to his issues, but I am also not biased to the point where I will say he needs a buff. If played and built correctly he is an amazing champion. There are 2 issues that people feel need to be addressed, his lack of CC and Mobility (which Riot already said they won't change), and his HP Regen... which Riot just nerfed because the retards were calling for buffs so Riot reduced his health costs and lowered his health regen to compensate for that.

The champion is balanced, any changes to him.. like the health regen change... will happen if the community keeps calling for buffs and whatnot without having a single clue about how the champion works. It is tards like them that are going to ruin this champion.

Bijorn3 votes

I will respectfully disagree that he has a "ridiculous amount of power". He can be strong yes. Is he strong? I think so. But I can not see him winning many matchups in the mid lane.

I have not played much of Mord although I do absolutely love him. Would you care to share your success with him? I want to get better with him and someone with your experience is very very hard to come by.

LifeCyclesTWA1 votes

{quoted}

I will respectfully disagree that he has a "ridiculous amount of power". He can be strong yes. Is he strong? I think so. But I can not see him winning many matchups in the mid lane.

I have not played much of Mord although I do absolutely love him. Would you care to share your success with him? I want to get better with him and someone with your experience is very very hard to come by.

That is your problem. Play him top lane, he is stronger up there. He is outclassed by other champions at roaming, which is what mids should be doing.

Bijorn1 votes

huh. Guess that is my problem lol. saw your post on another thread about mord so I look forward to following your advice and seeing how I fair with him :)

Merxamers1 votes

Morde is actually underrated as a mid laner, i think. He has a bit of trouble with some champions who can either all-in him really early (Zed) or abuse his lack of mobility (Azir, Heimerdinger, Cass), but he shines against melee assassins (Akali, Fizz) and champions who really on burst w/out cc (Leblanc). I might be biased since i have years of experience dodging skill shots with him, but i definitely don't think he's a 'weak' mid, just not op. If you DO play him mid, you probably want to use a different playstyle, ie. push the wave as hard as you can, ward, and take bird camps whenever you can

SEKAI3 votes

The champion has a ridiculous amount of power

Such as:

  • His gutted early game?
  • His not so impressive damage with a not so impressive scaling?
  • His gimmicky and situational OP sustain that only ever works when he is incredibly fed?
  • His again, gimmicky and situational OP ulti that only ever works when the ignite's off cd and/or when the enemy is fed (who somehow made a stupid mistake and died)? And it took a bat too.

Where is his ridiculous amount of power? I wanna see it!

If he is meant to have 0 mobility and cc, fine I can live with it. But in exchange he needs to have either an okay-ish power with a ridiculous scaling or a ridiculous early game with an alright late game at the very least, which he has none of those atm.

LifeCyclesTWA1 votes

{quoted}

Such as:

  • His gutted early game?
  • His almost non-existent damage with overall not so impressive scaling?
  • His gimmicky and situational OP sustain that only ever works when he is incredibly fed?
  • His again, gimmicky and situational OP ulti that only ever works when the ignite's off cd and/or when the enemy is fed (who somehow made a stupid mistake and died)? And it took a bat too.

Where is his ridiculous amount of power? I wanna see it!

If he is meant to have 0 mobility and cc, fine I can live with it. But in exchange he needs to have either an okay-ish power with a ridiculous scaling or a ridiculous early game with an alright late game at the very least, which he has none of those atm.

  1. Anyone would agree a full-build Mordekaiser is among the scariest champs in the whole entire game, so yes, the hit to his early game was very damn necessary. To call it gutted is a massive exaggeration though, he has an aoe with 700 range that has little-to-no counterplay at all. This is partly why he has no CC or mobility. His E lands instantaneously, there is no avoiding it at all, and is the skill that single-handedly allows Mordekaiser to consistently beat down on melee opponents. If you lack sustain or a means to gap close on Mord, you will be hurting. That is why Mordekaiser struggles vs Xin Zhao and Yorick, they both have great sustain and can both punish Mord as much if not more than he punishes them. Most champions are not capable of this though. Garen gets ripped apart by Mord, Mord beats Renekton, etc...

If you see Garen, one of the strongest early game champs in the game, come at you, pop your Q, put W on yourself, and E him in the face. If he chases you past your minion wave, he is taking damage from an enhanced Q. Either way, you won the trade and can zone him from his minions with your constant E harass he buys MR, which he will be forced to do. Renekton doesn't have a gap-closer near as reliable as Xin Zhao's, just play this lane safe, he pushes the lane anyways for rage/sustain, just keep your distance and hit him with E/enhanced Q if he tries to zone you from your creeps. If he tries to duel you post-6 hit him with your ult to keep your health up, no way in hell is he going to kill you without assistance from his jungler. You outscale those 2, btw. These are 2 matchups against guys that are typically very powerful early but weak late that you can win and outscale very strongly.

  1. His almost non-existent damage with overall not so impressive scaling? Dude, you're high. Contrary to that, he actually has some of the BEST scaling in the whole game, especially with built tank+magic pen. Here is a comment I made on another thread about Tank Morde's ult vs the common AP Morde's

"His ult works well with "tank Morde" for 4 reasons btw:

  1. The ghost dies early if you die, so you being harder to kill = the ghost lasts much longer.
  2. The ghost gains 75% of your total health as health, and gives you 25% of its bonus health as extra health.
  3. All of the damage it does raises your passive shielding, so when you build tank and have 200+ armor and mr late game with their ADC ghosted... you are unkillable.
  4. Because of your really high armor and mr you make very damn good use of all the healing your ghost provides. Keep in mind you heal yourself for 100% of the damage dealt by the spell, an additional 35% of the damage dealt is put towards restoring your health, and all damage the ghost does raises your passive shield, resulting in nonstop mass regeneration of your passive shield, effectively rendering you unkillable."

When you build large amounts of armor and mr in combination with magic pen, the rate at which you build your shield is awesome AND the shield is VERY powerful. 630 health + 200 armor/mr.... how much effective health is that? And it is EASILY attainable, and with your short CDs it is EASILY built back up. This guy is a monster, fed or not. Not to mention all of his damage is AoE, high base damage, and low CDs.

  1. Again, as stated before, you do not need to be fed. Just build tanky with magic pen. Thankfully, tank items are cheap and Mordekaiser is the among the best farmers in the whole entire game.

  2. You are a new to Mordekaiser if you try to use his ultimate as a means to burst some 100-0. In fact, I strongly believe ignite is a massive noob trap as Mordekaiser. Grab teleport and go top, dude. You know how to last hit right? Use your ultimate as a last hitting tool against enemy champions. You are guaranteed 100% so long as you are around the teamfight from start to finish to grab a ghost if you use it as a last hitting tool. Guaranteed. And that ghost will either be a tank, an AP champion, or someone with high AD. If you grab a tank, congrats you just got a massive heal, a full shield, an 25% of their bonus health as health for you, not to mention the ghost is using all of their items. You grabbed an AD champion? Awesome! They get a 100 AD bonus because of your ult in addition to all of their damage raising your shield. You are very fucking hard to kill and are dealing a very damn good amount of damage. When you build tanky as hell, you don't need to say "oh shit, almost got burst down, better ult someone to heal up." No, you take a beating then last hit someone then use that someone to make you even harder to kill and give you a large dps increase. Build him tanky, its 100x more effective than your Glass-Cannon build which makes no sense at all on a melee-champion with no CC or mobility.

The Loveless1 votes

Tank morde is easy to ignore. He has no damage or any reason to be up in my adc's face. In fact my ad life steals more than morde can dish out. I've never lost to the new morde.

LifeCyclesTWA1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Loveless,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EQZTdyeQ,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-05-12T20:41:01.399+0000)

Tank morde is easy to ignore. He has no damage or any reason to be up in my adc's face. In fact my ad life steals more than morde can dish out. I've never lost to the new morde.

Easy to ignore? Tell me, in all of your years of playing experience and many matches against Mordekaiser, what in the fuck caused you believe this? What "new" Morde?

The Loveless3 votes

Good lord you're rude. Just fuck off.

Akesgeroth2 votes

I posted this a few months ago:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/OdfKWll8-lets-talk-about-mordekaiser

Shame it got ignored.

Terff1 votes

Except nobody wants his ult replaced because its iconic to him.

LifeCyclesTWA1 votes

{quoted}

Except nobody wants his ult replaced because its iconic to him.

Some morons actually DO want to do that. In fact, they want to remove it entirely and replace it with something else.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/OdfKWll8-lets-talk-about-mordekaiser

These threads are scary as hell, and I see 2-5 every single day. Its a like an army of morons gathering together with their pitchforks and shit trying to remove the man-in-metal from the game.

Terff1 votes

Haha, i saw one that basically turned mordes ult into a longer fiddlesticks ult with healing on all damage done by it.

Merxamers2 votes

Not sure where the downvotes are coming from for this thread. I get tired of all the people wanting to add CC to his kit as well; my main problem with Morde is that his kit feels underwhelming in its design and could be a lot more interesting, and when i bring this up everyone always says 'Just add a slow to his Q', which is the laziest, most boring change they could possibly make.

Morde used to be more effective as a glass cannon, but since his rework does pretty great with a couple tank items. I don't think he's 'weak', he just isn't as safe as other champions and requires the player to be aware of his limitations.

LifeCyclesTWA2 votes

{quoted}

Not sure where the downvotes are coming from for this thread. I get tired of all the people wanting to add CC to his kit as well; my main problem with Morde is that his kit feels underwhelming in its design and could be a lot more interesting, and when i bring this up everyone always says 'Just add a slow to his Q', which is the laziest, most boring change they could possibly make.

Morde used to be more effective as a glass cannon, but since his rework does pretty great with a couple tank items. I don't think he's 'weak', he just isn't as safe as other champions and requires the player to be aware of his limitations.

His best days actually came before and during season one when he was being built full tank during the League of Sunfires where he'd stack Sunfires, grab a Thornmail and an FoN, and be this unkillable thing that would grab on member of the enemy team to join him and would dominate. It was considered extremely toxic and resulted in him getting AP ratios and people began to stop building him full-tank in favor of a bruiser Morde, then he started being built Glass Cannon with DFG, now I believe that needs to change again. Magic Penetration then full tank items is the way to go now.

Merxamers1 votes

aw man, RIP FoN :'(

AtheosisX1 votes

Lack of any cc or any mobility does make him very iffy overall. Not sure how anyone could argue otherwise. But yes he's powerful if you can actually reach the enemy and stick to them for a few seconds. Seriously though, he needs a rework, and if they don't give him a slow or something in the process they are clueless.

LifeCyclesTWA1 votes

{quoted}

Lack of any cc or any mobility does make him very iffy overall. Not sure how anyone could argue otherwise. But yes he's powerful if you can actually reach the enemy and stick to them for a few seconds. Seriously though, he needs a rework, and if they don't give him a slow or something in the process they are clueless.

You are totally missing the point of Morde's kit. He is EXTREMELY strong against people that engage on him, but is easily kited. He is very powerful vs melee champions and in teamfights where teams hard-engage on eachother. When he has teammates that lay on the CC, he is the #1 champion at dealing out AoE punishment. He has 2 abilities with very low CDs that both hit crowds of enemies and his ultimate makes whatever enemy he marks for death join your team. The guy is a total monster. He makes up for his inability to close-gaps on people by having his very powerful E. His E is unlike any other AoE in the game. It has no missile speed, there is no counterplay. If you are within 700 range of him you just got hit like a truck. He is not the guy who will get first blood, hell he isn't the guy who will kill his lane opponent either unless they make a mistake, he however does have the best farming capabilities in the game and is an EXTREME threat in a teamfight and is near invincible when at full build.

Rinky Dinky1 votes

The only way to play him is glass cannon my man.

thinking man1 votes

They should probably give him one or the other and then nerf his damage so that he doesn't have to play like a ranged champion to kill shit w/ his overloaded E + R and instead has a reason to actually play as a giant metal guy with a big mace.

Something like a stun/slow on his Q or slow on E with all around ratio nerfs and then maybe some sort of bump to his survivability so he's not as much of a mage and actually fits his aesthetics.

LifeCyclesTWA1 votes

{quoted}

They should probably give him one or the other and then nerf his damage so that he doesn't have to play like a ranged champion to kill shit w/ his overloaded E + R and instead has a reason to actually play as a giant metal guy with a big mace.

Something like a stun on his Q with all around ratio nerfs and then maybe some sort of bump to his survivability so he's not as much of a mage and actually fits his aesthetics.

What would this fix? This would actually fuck him over ROYALLY. He needs damage to build his passive. His problem as a champion is that he'd can't in range of someone to Q them in the first place, what would this stun on his Q fix?

So basically what you are saying is riot should nerf the rate at which he gains his shield, which is extremely important to his survival, to give his Q a stun... which he will never be able to land because he doesn't have mobility... unless someone jumps up on him or stands still waiting for him to smack them? This makes no sense at all.

thinking man1 votes

{quoted}

What would this fix? This would actually fuck him over ROYALLY. He needs damage to build his passive. His problem as a champion is that he'd can't in range of someone to Q them in the first place, what would this stun on his Q fix?

So basically what you are saying is riot should nerf the rate at which he gains his shield, which is extremely important to his survival, to give his Q a stun... which he will never be able to land because he doesn't have mobility... unless someone jumps up on him or stands still waiting for him to smack them? This makes no sense at all.

I forgot to think about that.

If they combined it with that shield change they were considering doing but scrapped where it was based on your health, that'd actually hit him into a bit of a better spot.

He's never going to see any real buffs unless Riot changes how he can sometimes E+R a target to just watch them die.

That's not going to happen 100% of the time but it's not hard to accrue advantages on Morde since he farms so well so if he's got several big items before your ADC has Banshee's then they're going to die to that. He needs a minor change to his gameplay, mostly just his dependence upon his E and then his role should be shifted unless Riot likes the burst mage playstyle when I'm mostly sure that he was intended to be a tank, considering his passive/W.

LifeCyclesTWA1 votes

{quoted}

I forgot to think about that.

If they combined it with that shield change they were considering doing but scrapped where it was based on your health, that'd actually hit him into a bit of a better spot.

He's never going to see any real buffs unless Riot changes how he can sometimes E+R a target to just watch them die.

That's not going to happen 100% of the time but it's not hard to accrue advantages on Morde since he farms so well so if he's got several big items before your ADC has Banshee's then they're going to die to that. He needs a minor change to his gameplay, mostly just his dependence upon his E and then his role should be shifted unless Riot likes the burst mage playstyle when I'm mostly sure that he was intended to be a tank, considering his passive/W.

Alls good!

The issue with them making his shield scale with his max health is that is would be a major kick to the groin for multiple reasons. Right now, he thrives off the fact that he can do a large amount of damage while maintaining his tankiness. Him gaining shielding based off the damage he does creates a great natural synergy, and thankfully you can raise your damage while strengthening your passive shield by buying items that give AP and armor/mr. Armor and MR make your shield stronger. More AP, more shield. More armor/mr, stronger shield.

The issue with making his shield scale off of your max health is huge imo: His passive has a cap, so you are going to need enough health to generate your passive at a quick rate, enough armor and mr for that shield to be strong, and enough damage to make yourself a threat because people will just ignore you due to your lack of CC. So itemization is going to be a pain, you need armor and mr for your shield to be strong... but you need stack HP to build up your shield... but you need AP in order to be a threat to the enemy team otherwise you'll just be ignored.

His R isn't actually all that powerful btw unless paired with ignite, even then its sketchy. Many times have I nearly killed someone and they got away with a sliver of health and their potion kept them alive long enough to survive my ultimate. Many times have I nearly killed someone and their ally shielded or healed them. Many times have I ulted and ignited someone, only to have my ult and ignite removed by a Quicksilver Sash. That is why now I only use my ultimate to survive a duel/gank, or as a last hit tool against champions. I either "ks" a teammate or kill someone myself to get a ghost, then charge into a teamfight or objective with the ghost. imo its generally best to hit a champion with it right before they die so you guarantee the ghost.

thinking man1 votes

{quoted}

Alls good!

The issue with them making his shield scale with his max health is that is would be a major kick to the groin for multiple reasons. Right now, he thrives off the fact that he can do a large amount of damage while maintaining his tankiness. Him gaining shielding based off the damage he does creates a great natural synergy, and thankfully you can raise your damage while strengthening your passive shield by buying items that give AP and armor/mr. Armor and MR make your shield stronger. More AP, more shield. More armor/mr, stronger shield.

The issue with making his shield scale off of your max health is huge imo: His passive has a cap, so you are going to need enough health to generate your passive at a quick rate, enough armor and mr for that shield to be strong, and enough damage to make yourself a threat because people will just ignore you due to your lack of CC. So itemization is going to be a pain, you need armor and mr for your shield to be strong... but you need stack HP to build up your shield... but you need AP in order to be a threat to the enemy team otherwise you'll just be ignored.

His R isn't actually all that powerful btw unless paired with ignite, even then its sketchy. Many times have I nearly killed someone and they got away with a sliver of health and their potion kept them alive long enough to survive my ultimate. Many times have I nearly killed someone and their ally shielded or healed them. Many times have I ulted and ignited someone, only to have my ult and ignite removed by a Quicksilver Sash. That is why now I only use my ultimate to survive a duel/gank, or as a last hit tool against champions. I either "ks" a teammate or kill someone myself to get a ghost, then charge into a teamfight or objective with the ghost. imo its generally best to hit a champion with it right before they die so you guarantee the ghost.

You are largely underestimating the power of a raw health-scaling shield on its own. Nautilus has the exact same thing and he is just fine. It's basically just effectively increased health. Optimizing the value of it requires both stats, yes, but it is still extremely functional without it and at least sort of effective with nothing but resistances, although having nothing but health is generally going to be more efficient. You also have to consider that a shield does not feed into Liandry's or BotRK in any way other than making both items deal slightly more damage since your current health is higher.

The changes I suggested are obviously not optimized at all. Those are just an outline of what I think could help make his gameplay closer to what you'd expect when you first see him when buying a champion, and to make that effective. His shield could end up being a percentage of his maximum health, he could end up with CC on both his Q and E, his Ghost could be made stronger. Basically, all I'd expect to see for him is a gameplay change to make him a more effective tank while slashing his burst damage. The main downside I'd see to this is he might not be able to kill somebody alone for the Ghost, but being dependent on his allies isn't necessarily bad. One thing that I envision him being good at is his Ghost could provide an aura buff so that he's like a leader where he provides an ally aid with his W and then he turns an enemy to both use their powers against their opponent and empower his allies. They might have to nerf some of the individual power of the Ghost though, since I once solo'd an ADC with a Gnar ghost because he had Thornmail and Frozen Mallet.

TTUPhoenix1 votes

I've been playing a lot of Morde lately (trying out a tankier build and seeing a lot of success), and all I want for him is for his shield to not decay in combat.

NeoScout1 votes

as it should be, say no to homogenization and powercreep

Terff1 votes

I don't think ignite is a noob trap on mordekaiser, you have no idea how many times I've won lane because people stayed with 1/4 of their health under turret then E ignite ult and congratulations you won lane and they'll have a mighty hard time contesting you after that.

LifeCyclesTWA1 votes

{quoted}

I don't think ignite is a noob trap on mordekaiser, you have no idea how many times I've won lane because people stayed with 1/4 of their health under turret then E ignite ult and congratulations you won lane and they'll have a mighty hard time contesting you after that.

That was a mistake made by your opponent though, he/she should have known not to stick around. You cannot count on your lane opponent to make mistakes like that every game... however if your lane opponent has teleport and you do not, that hurts your team 100% of the time.

If Mordekaiser kills someone during the laning phase... its not because he made a play, its because his opponents made mistakes. Mordekaiser isn't going to fly out of a bush and surprise someone you know? He is where he is and he does what he does.

LifeCyclesTWA1 votes

I know right?

Tengrichan1 votes

Only place he could get a CC is his ulti with its relatively long cooldown as Mordekaiser's "ultimate" is a joke at lvl1.But to increase the counterplay to it give it a 0.5 cast time or more aka make it channeled. What would be the CC on it? TAUNT. That's it.Also his ghost is fucking shit at the moment and doesn't work half of the time making him weaker than he should be.

LifeCyclesTWA1 votes

{quoted}

Only place he could get a CC is his ulti with its relatively long cooldown as Mordekaiser's "ultimate" is a joke at lvl1.But to increase the counterplay to it give it a 0.5 cast time or more aka make it channeled. What would be the CC on it? TAUNT. That's it.Also his ghost is fucking shit at the moment and doesn't work half of the time making him weaker than he should be.

Use his ultimate to last hit enemy champions. It guarantees you a ghost every single fight.

Tengrichan1 votes

{quoted}

Use his ultimate to last hit enemy champions. It guarantees you a ghost every single fight.

Good thing his ulti lvl1 "ultimate" instant dmg part deals around 100 dmg.

LifeCyclesTWA1 votes

It actually does 12% of their max health in damage initially and another 12% over time if you have 0 ap. Have full Magic pen reds and quints and use your ult as either a heal or as an execute. Need health? Ult the enemy. Otherwise, don't try to get kills in lane. Just farm. And Mordekaiser is the best farmer in the game.

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