Camille Is Not Broken, Stop Perma Banning Her.

Zerenza·Dec 17, 2016·5 votes·2,053 views

http://na.op.gg/champion/camille/statistics/top

First take a look at this before reading any further.

In most cases when a new champion comes out, after about a week and over the course of the first days their released, their ban rate goes down. Camille's has not, it went from 50%-67% in just under a couple hours. And there's no reason for that based on statistics, she isn't Broken, strong to a point but definitely not broken.

Not to mention how is riot supposed to balance her if no one can fking play her like c'mon guys.

22 Comments

Power Of SyndraDec 17, 20164 votes

Yeah, Syndra is not broken, too. Don´t ban her! :^)

pls ban Chamille and Syndra

ZerenzaDec 17, 20164 votes

The stats don't agree with you. Camille isn't broken, frustrating does not mean broken.

datfatguyDec 17, 20162 votes

Defence, mobility, damage, ultimate that nothing can escape, and windshield wipers does not mean broken.

ZerenzaDec 17, 20164 votes

Apparently not considering she doesn't have real broken winrates like Sona's 56% winrate in less than 12 hours, AP Yi's Massive winrate, Kassadins Winrate back when he was busted (she might have his banrate soon though) but she obviously not broken.

People just need to deal with it, some champions have frustrating kits, that's just how it is.

datfatguyDec 17, 20163 votes

But they don't really seem to have everything that I mentioned. Sona has damage and some defence, Yi has damage and mobility, Kassadin also has damage and mobility. Camille has everything that I mentioned which is not balanced. That just just overloaded. People complain about Yasuo when Camille is now a champion.

MartensiticDec 17, 20163 votes

You really don't like it when you are wrong, do you?

But they don't really seem to have everything that I mentioned.

It doesn't matter that she has a large kit. Large kit means more things to manage. Means more ways to fk up. If someone can play her, the result is devastating, but since most people are average at best, this doesn't make her broken.

datfatguyDec 17, 20161 votes

Yasuo basically has all of these apart from the windshield wipers. Why is his kit considered overloaded but not Camilles?

ZerenzaDec 18, 20161 votes

Because, Yasuo's kit makes items on him more gold efficient. Let's take a look at Phantom dancer for example.

Price: 2550 Stats: 30% Crit(1200), 45% Attack Speed(1125), 5% Movement Speed(197.5). Actually Total Price: 2522 total value. Gold Efficiency: 98%

On yasuo you get 60% crit chance, meaning you add 1200 gold on to a 2522 gold value item. Making the item worth 3722 gold instead. This makes the item 140-150% Gold efficient, that's without the passives which still give 12% resistances, ghosting and movement speed buffs.

Camille's Damage scaling on all her abilities is not very high, the highest she has is on her Q which has an 80% total AD scaling but NO BASE DAMAGE. Now, the first casts/parts of all of her abilities don't do much, she HAS to hit you on the outside of her W to get the heal/slow, she HAS to jump off of a wall to stun you and get the attack speed boost. She MUST wait 1.5 seconds before recasting her Q in order to get the true damage. Her Kit is very well telegraphed, she's very predictable and while she defnitely has outplay potential, she also has counterplay potential. Now, the only ability in her Kit that has no counterplay is her Ultimate and there are ways to get out, most of the time once your in, your in though. But let me tell you how to get out, right before the ult hits you, you can use Ekko's ultimate to go back and as long as your position was outside of her range, the ultimate will miss. Zed's ult will prevent you from being targeted by it, Vlad, Fizz, Zhonya's Hour Glass, Banshee's Veil, SpellSheilds. There IS counterplay, there are plenty of indicator's and plenty of ways to play against her, people are just to lazy to figure them out.

MartensiticDec 17, 20164 votes

wow that was the worst argument I have read so far :D

MissingKayoDec 17, 20161 votes

Stating everything positive and conveniently ignoring everything else doesn't make it broken either.

ShadòwDec 17, 20162 votes

no need to balance her.

her kit is BS since it went on PBE.

ZerenzaDec 17, 20163 votes

Frustrating does not mean broken.

Captaín InsanoDec 17, 20162 votes

{quoted}

no need to balance her.

her kit is BS since it went on PBE.

The reason people say this is because shes a mobile AD Duelist. That is literally it. She's a similar class of champs like Yasuo, Riven, Fiora, etc. People are gonna immediately scream "OP OMFG OPPPP" but it is not like she doesn't have obvious counters. Poppy destroys her, a decent Fiora wipes the floor with her. Not to mention ranged top laners like Jayce who can harass you freely and essentially half health her before she even gets her 2nd q proc. It's just typical release champion BS but added on because its a champ with damage and mobility

TequilaZombieDec 17, 20161 votes

First: Yasuo, Riven and Fiora ARE NOT AD ASSASSINS. Talon, Zed, and Kha are. You mentioned Slayers and Fighters.

She's a mobile Irelia with more utility.

However, due to her kit, she's really annoying to play against. And people like to ban annoying champions, not because they are OP, but because it feels bad to play vs them. Zed Yasuo

Captaín InsanoDec 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

First: Yasuo, Riven and Fiora ARE NOT AD ASSASSINS. Talon, Zed, and Kha are. You mentioned Slayers and Fighters.

She's a mobile Irelia with more utility.

However, due to her kit, she's really annoying to play against. And people like to ban annoying champions, not because they are OP, but because it feels bad to play vs them.

I apologize i didn't mean to say assassin. I meant to say duelist. Mobile AD duelist. But my point still stands in the sense that people dont ban her because she is OP but because she is in the class of champions that typically people dont like fighting because once they get ahead. There is little you can do to stop them from snowballing if they are skilled with the champion.

TequilaZombieDec 17, 20161 votes

Well, I'd say that this is reason enough to ban a champion. She's a new one, which the Top Laner might have a clue how to fight and handle her in lane, but there is little he can do if she roams and picks a kill mid or jg. Or even if she gets a good TP bot. Specially because it's likely that his team won't know how to handle her.

Captaín InsanoDec 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Well, I'd say that this is reason enough to ban a champion. She's a new one, which the Top Laner might have a clue how to fight and handle her in lane, but there is little he can do if she roams and picks a kill mid or jg. Or even if she gets a good TP bot. Specially because it's likely that his team won't know how to handle her.

Except using that same logic. You have a fairly new champion in Ivern. Who was barely banned for the the first week that he was out. And on top of that is hardly banned now even though he is currently sitting at a 54.5% win rate that during last patch went as high as 57.4%. Yet he was hardly banned. Same goes for Aurelion Sol. Aurelion sol after his first few days of release was hardly banned yet up until this last patch he was at around a 54% win rate in the mid lane. People are not banning her cause shes new anymore they are banning her because shes a Medium - High Skill curve champion with mobility and damage. Which people have a conniption every time they see because it reminds them of Yasuo, Riven, Fiora, Lee Sin and hell even Jax and Irelia to an extent. These are champions that when played in the right hands can snowball uncontrollably even though they are not "God Tier" Or "Pick or Ban" worthy champions. People ban them because when they lose lane to them they feel helpless. But when they beat one in lane suddenly the player using said champion is garbo and they will talk shit on the person playing. "GG EZ" and "Get Fu**ed" Etc. its all just a mindset that the league community has procured over the years. That is why she is getting banned. These champions all have huge weaknesses and counter picks but because people dont do their research or put 2 and 2 together they think there is little to no counter play. And often times the counter picks to the champion are easier then the champion is. For example.

- Yasuo doesn't like fighting champions with a strong laning phase that can bully him and get in his face. Champions like , , , for the top lane can all destroy a Yasuo as long as the matchup is played properly. For the midlane champions like , , Can either outsustain, out harass, or just win all ins due to high base damages.
- Riven has issues dealing with champions that can interrupt her flow of combos and animation cancels. So champions like with his silence with his point and click stun or who can just ignore all her cc from the start.
- Honestly shes not much different then Yasuo, hard cc that is either very quick or instant can counter since she cant parry in time. Champs like , or with her abundance of cc and instant stun on her E.

And since this is about Camille i will show you counters for her as well

- Camille's laning phase is very strong when she hits her level 2 or 3 power spike (depending on when she takes her Q and E) but is reliant on auto attacks and landing her stun to be effective. Champions like can crush her because if she attempts to hookshot Poppy can either slam her into the wall with heroic charge or simply prevent the dash entirely with her W. Also makes short work of Camille because Camilles stun is very telegraphed in that she has to show you that shes about to stun you before she does it. Making it an easy parry or dodge with Q. Lastly played properly can ruin Camilles day simply through CONSTANT poke and being able to engage super hard then disengage with his knockback before Camille can even get her true damage off.

Okay thats the whole thing lol

RebonackDec 17, 20161 votes

She just came out and people are still figuring out her nuances. Making proclamations this early is silly.

DrCyanideDec 17, 20161 votes

1556 games played top this patch. That's next to nothing, and you know a lot of those are going to be people who only play Ranked first timing her.

Champion.gg hasn't updated enough to use it as a measurement stick for how good she is. Personal experience playing against her at a Silver level leads me to think she's got all the tools to snowball very hard, thus a ban makes sense.

Very Hard EngageDec 17, 20161 votes

i dont ban camille, i let her slide right through onto the enemy team, so they can tilt and complain as to why they have an auto lock camille top who goes 8-14 trying to brawl at every stage and loses the game.

the people that do ban camille dont want to see one on their team knowing the person picking her will be ineffective in ranked. not that its bad as a champion choice, but because they are simply here to win, not try new things.

warpenguin555Dec 17, 20161 votes

Do you want somebody on your team who barely knows how to play her to pick her and feed? Do you want to have somebody on the enemy team picking her and getting fed when you're team doesnt know how to deal with her yet?

Thats why shes permabanned right now. New champions are always like that. Why take the risk of getting either of the scenarios mentioned above when you can just ban it?