Volibear still lacking proper juggernaut stats

Moody P·Oct 23, 2018·5 votes·1,407 views

It shouldn't be OK that tanks can do more damage than Volibear right now

Give him the AD ratios he deserves to be the raid boss he is meant to be

28 Comments

OleandervineOct 23, 20183 votes

Volibear is also one of the Tier 1 rework candidates. I don't think Riot is going to invest a lot of time and effort into adjusting the stats of someone they consider in extreme need of a VGU.

Moody POct 23, 20181 votes

doesn't need one

OleandervineOct 23, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EQ6f0Eoo,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-10-23T17:53:06.617+0000)

doesn't need one

That's your opinion though. Riot thinks he does, to the point where he's high priority. I've played him, I and his kit is braindead and far too easily thwarted. I would agree that he does need a VGU to be viable.

Moody POct 23, 20181 votes

volibear's too high iq for you, think you need a muh skillshot to be able to play a champ lol

OleandervineOct 23, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EQ6f0Eoo,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-23T18:01:25.640+0000)

volibear's too high iq for you, think you need a muh skillshot to be able to play a champ lol

I'm not going to argue this. Stop being petty. I told you Riot considers him a high priority VGU candidate. Your opinion is not relevant to that, because they've had him on that list for well over a year now.

Moody POct 23, 20181 votes

volibear vgu is at minimum a year off from now and we won't see it until mid or late season 9 being generous. hardly a reason to neglect an inoffensive champion particularly when other high priority champion's got plenty of changes prior to being replaced, urgot and aatrox coming to mind

you playing him once and sucking at him is not an argument against his kit

OleandervineOct 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EQ6f0Eoo,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-23T18:58:29.186+0000)

volibear vgu is at minimum a year off from now and we won't see it until mid or late season 9 being generous. hardly a reason to neglect an inoffensive champion particularly when other high priority champion's got plenty of changes prior to being replaced, urgot and aatrox coming to mind

you playing him once and sucking at him is not an argument against his kit

Volibear is playable. Urgot and Aatrox were nearly unviable until the minor changes that gave them some play prior to their VGUs. They don't need to waste time tinkering with Volibear.

Moody POct 23, 20181 votes

revising history this hard

not sure why I even bother arguing on boards lol

number changes could be done in less than an hour

OleandervineOct 23, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EQ6f0Eoo,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-23T19:12:21.349+0000)

not sure why I even bother arguing on boards lol

number changes could be done in less than an hour

No, they cannot. Because not only do you have to account for how any changes will affect the base level version of the champion, you have to factor in how they'll affect them on leveling up, how they're going to interact with items, and how they'll interact with runes. That will take more than an hour to test run, and they'll also have to tweak and ensure that minor changes don't butterfly effect into something worse.

MordepoolOct 23, 20182 votes

Bear with me here.

How are his stats out of line exactly.

Moody POct 23, 20182 votes

base HP is trash for what he is passive cooldown is too high

Q has no scaling whatsoever and mediocre base dmg E scales AP R scales AP

Volibear does not like AP items; buying them gives up too much survivability he needs. On-hit items have the same problem Volibear can't make use of AD items besides Titanic; everything else is too inefficient, depriving him of being able to justify a much needed survival item like Sterak's

for comparison, the other Juggernaut who is "forced" to build basically full tank - Dr. Mundo - has 25% current HP nuke on a 2s cooldown, W reduces incoming CC, E gives him an absurd amount of AD at the click of a button + a health-scaling bonus to next AA with 100% uptime, and his ult which is more than 3x as much as Volibear's restores while also having a lower cooldown.

voli's stats are simply pitiful and are the sole thing keeping him from being a relevant champion - they're also what forces much of the stigma around him being an "unfair" nuker with his W, since he has no choice but to stack HP forcing him to be a cheese champion

Iota ThetaOct 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EQ6f0Eoo,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-10-23T17:06:51.773+0000)

base HP is trash for what he is passive cooldown is too high

Q has no scaling whatsoever and mediocre base dmg E scales AP R scales AP

Volibear does not like AP items; buying them gives up too much survivability he needs. On-hit items have the same problem Volibear can't make use of AD items besides Titanic; everything else is too inefficient, depriving him of being able to justify a much needed survival item like Sterak's

for comparison, the other Juggernaut who is "forced" to build basically full tank - Dr. Mundo - has 25% current HP nuke on a 2s cooldown, W reduces incoming CC, E gives him an absurd amount of AD at the click of a button + a health-scaling bonus to next AA with 100% uptime, and his ult which is more than 3x as much as Volibear's restores while also having a lower cooldown.

voli's stats are simply pitiful and are the sole thing keeping him from being a relevant champion - they're also what forces much of the stigma around him being an "unfair" nuker with his W, since he has no choice but to stack HP forcing him to be a cheese champion

I wouldn’t complain about Mundo’s ult healing more cause, well, it’s an ult. The CD point stands though.

Some of these are valid points. AP scalings are..odd when it came to the old tankier AD style champs. ~~Even Garen’s ult has an AP ratio,~~ and J4’s E. But I will give you that.

What it seems like for Voli though is he seems to be built around his W, but not just for his execute. His W also grants him increasing attack speed, which is what allows Titanic to work well on him. His autos are based on AD, so why can’t AD items work for him as they do for, say, Olaf, in that they are used for his autos? Cleaver stacks, Titanic Cleaves. Why are AD items only good on him if he has the ratios? Offensice Juggernaut items are all AD/health, buffing both your autos and health, and the defensive ones for resists (even DMP boosts you more with momentum and an on-hit).

Also, honestly, how does Sterak’s not work for him?

He can build AD, his abilities just won’t go up. His W will still get stronger with his health, and his autos will deal a lot as he gets W stacks. I’m not seeing the issue there.

Edit to add: he’a also really high on the VGU list abbearently, so they likely don’t want to mess with him a whole lot in the meantime..similar to Yorick and Urgot and those guys.

Edit 2: apparently Garen didn’t have a ratio. My bad, thought he did at one point.

Moody POct 23, 20181 votes

because Olaf also has Q and E spam which both scale very nicely with the bonus AD he buys; also he has innate lifesteal which encourages offense items. Volibear cannot stack Cleaver at any respectable speed; not worth buying. His rotation isn't low CD enough to justify Trinity; not worth buying. Sterak's is simply too expensive for too little benefit offensively for Volibear. Its best users tend to have enormous AD scalings and/or combine it with Trinity Force for a very potent 2 item power spike. Volibear offers neither of this.

More importantly, having no means to scale means Volibear just doesn't scale. This would be fine, if it meant his early game were appropriately powerful. But, really, it's not; he can cheese you very hard with his bite and an Ignite, but that's really about it, he's nothing like a proper lane bully. But I don't need him to be a lane bully; I'd much rather not be restricted to a 20 minute timer before whatever lead I've gained through good play completely vanishes.

ZackTheWaffleManOct 23, 20181 votes

trinity+sterak's isnt that big of a spike any more, sterak's now gives bonus ad

Moody POct 23, 20181 votes

it's still the standard core for every trigage fighter

ZackTheWaffleManOct 23, 20182 votes

garen's ult has no ratio lol

Iota ThetaOct 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

garen's ult has no ratio lol

Huh, so it doesn’t. I could've sworn it did, cause I remember hearing of Garen with AP at one point just for maximum justice. I must be misremembering then. My bad.

ZackTheWaffleManOct 23, 20182 votes

Nah, AP garen was definitely a thing. item 3128 + Q base damage + R was AP garen.