Can Master Yi stop being a meme for handicaping your team?

PiVoRx··37 votes·5,358 views

MasterYi

  • Since january i played one game per month to maintain D5, as Yi main, i stop trying to climb higher than this elo, he is so bad that its pointless, by picking Yi, you just handicap your team, cause he cant do anything when people have even a slight idea how to play against Yi, D5 being a dumpster is another story tho.. So this is my rant from 3 year Master Yi main and also good bye if nothing changes before seasson begins.

  • Not a single attempt, even on PBE, to make Master Yi less garbage, since Devourer got removed and Yi got hammered with nerfs, i dont get it why Riot dont use PBE to make even a small experimental changes to make Yi, or any other trash champ better, it costs nothing.

  • I understand that its hard to balance 130+ champions but i dont understand why you are adding more while leaving old ones behind, you just make your work even harder with balancing. I know its the way how MOBA games work, more champions, more options, (also more money), but it feels like Riot forgets that old, trash champions can provide some variety as well, i would rather see Aatrox or Udyr in a game for once instead of rotation of most broken champions in LoL

  • Yi stomps low elo - false, he stomps nothing, you cant carry alone anymore, and any champion can stomp in bronze. This is some kind of a iron ball tied up to Yi's leg, outdated since 2 seassons and probably core reason hes not reciving any buffs. When i was climbing low elo account to gold, i had very hard time passing even through silver. You cant carry alone anymore, picking Yi doesent automaticly wins you a game if your team isnt decent. Meanwhile in high elos..

  • Yi is good late game is another outdated and false statment, Yi has some power spike (becomes equal with meta) around 20min mark when he gets his 3 core items, but as game progresses everyone else gets their items aswell, and very late game with full builds, Yi can do shit, with ammount of heals, shields, ccs, etc. Depending on your build, you will either dissapear instantly, sit in cc whole fight, or your ult will end before you can score a kill, also, most of the games doesent even last that long anyway.

  • It feels like Alpha Strike being primary ability to dodge was unintentional, probably Riot wasnt even taking this into account while designing this ability, i belive if it was actually its main purpose, it wouldnt require a target to use it and was working all the time, meanwhile its just still bugged side effect. It also does no damage at all, i main Yi for 2 years and i still sometimes shocked that i couldnt finish someone with very little health left, also, cos of it its just ridiculous, probably why you cant lane with Yi.

  • Long as fuck CDs, maxed Q on 16s, W is some kind of a joke, nobody cares about E anymore, and R that allows Yi to actually DO something, was even nerfed. • Q gets reduced with aa, yeah great, but what if you cant/have nothing to aa? You are out of your ult, gets slowed and almost dead enemy is out of your reach? Fun times. • W is used mostly as aa reset, Yi builds nothing for it to scale, useless in combat with ammount of cc that can interrupt it, and then this cd.. • E does nothing in general beside turning off 10% damage amplifier. • Highlander, Cause of nerfed duration it ends before you can score a reset, and when its not up you cant fight anyone. It got nerfed both duration and cd and now you can be useful for 7s for being almost super minion for 85.. Speed boost it provides is baerly noticable, most of the champion roster can straight forward outrun you or just jump through wall.

  • Yi is supposted to be about speed and agility, meanwhile he felt into the less mobile side, hes only "fast" when ult is up, cant jump walls, he doesent fit his theme at all right now, without highlander you feel like an old man on wheel chair.

  • Making trash tier champion useful is much harder than playing meta jungler, and i will go even further step ahead and say that Master Yi is much harder to play than Jarvan or Lee Sin around Diamond elo, you can compare it to bringing a knife to a gun fight, yes knife is easier to use than gun, but try to make anything happen with it..

  • Farm junglers like Yi dont gain edge through farming even if their opponents fails a gank multiple times, camps have such long spawn time, very often i just sit waiting for anything to spawn, you cant just go and counter jungle cause is too risky cause theres no way to escape, also Yi is no longer good for objective control.

  • Either not enough damage to kill for reset or not enough survivability to get a kill at all, its almost impossible to pass through all that shields, cc and heals to even trade 1:1 with enemy carry, meanwhile you just dissapear as soon as alpha animation finishes and going semi-tank build your damage is too low to kill before highlander ends so split pushing is not an option anymore for Yi.

  • All trash tier junglers share one common issue - bloodrazor, this item sucks and there was not a single game this seasson in competitive play where someone picked farm jungler / uses this item as core, and there was not a single attempt to buff this item either. Bloodrazor along with BorK was supposted to counter tanks, but actually, tanks dont give a fck about both right now.

  • There was not a single Yi main higher than D5 this seasson

  • New runes fixed nothing, lets be real, when champion is garbage, even runes wont help, its not like some runes are exclusive for farm junglers only..

Here, this is probably longest post i ever made, but i hear that "constructive" posts actually helps, but since im almost done with this game, lets make it count.

61 Comments

Carnicore16 votes

Not a single attempt, even on PBE, to make Master Yi less garbage, since Devourer got removed and Yi got hammered with nerfs, i dont get it why Riot don't use PBE to make even a small experimental changes to make Yi, or any other trash champ better, it costs nothing.

No need to exaggerate to make your point. The buffs to Meditate (that made it pause your buffs) was an experimental change that was tested and went live. It didn't make much of a difference, but it was something. Ironically the change to his passive (so Double Strike can damage two different targets) was probably a more impactful buff.

I understand that its hard to balance 130+ champions but i dont understand why you are adding more while leaving old ones behind, you just make your work even harder with balancing. I know its the way how MOBA games work, more champions, more options, (also more money), but it feels like Riot forgets that old, trash champions can provide some variety as well, i would rather see Aatrox or Udyr in a game for once instead of rotation of most broken champions in LoL

Riot's reworking champions more frequently than ever before. Singed, Leona, Rammus, Amumu, and Xin Zhao are just a few champions that got significant kit changes and buffs this year.

Yi stomps low elo - false, he stomps nothing, you cant carry alone anymore, and any champion can stomp in bronze. This is some kind of a iron ball tied up to Yi's leg, outdated since 2 seassons and probably core reason hes not reciving any buffs. When i was climbing low elo account to gold, i had very hard time passing even through silver. You cant carry alone anymore, picking Yi doesent automaticly wins you a game if your team isnt decent. Meanwhile in high elos..

No, it's true. Master Yi's winrate (and pickrate) has an inverse relationship with rank. Lolalytics and op.gg confirm this.

Yi is good late game is another outdated and false statment, Yi has some power spike (becomes equal with meta) around 20min mark when he gets his 3 core items, but as game progresses everyone else gets their items aswell, and very late game with full builds, Yi can do shit, with ammount of heals, shields, ccs, etc. Depending on your build, you will either dissapear instantly, sit in cc whole fight, or your ult will end before you can score a kill, also, most of the games doesent even last that long anyway.

Yup, he's uniquely over-reliant on takedowns and that cripples him when enemies have guardian angels, zhonyas, and Sonas standing right next to them. It's gotten worse now that ADCs can have stasis in laning phase thanks to Stopwatch.

Long as fuck CDs, maxed Q on 16s, W is some kind of a joke, nobody cares about E anymore, and R that allows Yi to actually DO something, was even nerfed. • Q gets reduced with aa, yeah great, but what if you cant/have nothing to aa? You are out of your ult, gets slowed and almost dead enemy is out of your reach? Fun times. • W is used mostly as aa reset, Yi builds nothing for it to scale, useless in combat with ammount of cc that can interrupt it, and then this cd.. • E does nothing in general beside turning off 10% damage amplifier. • Highlander, Cause of nerfed duration it ends before you can score a reset, and when its not up you cant fight anyone. It got nerfed both duration and cd and now you can be useful for 7s for being almost super minion for 85.. Speed boost it provides is baerly noticable, most of the champion roster can straight forward outrun you or just jump through wall.

Alpha Strike (combined with Highlander's passive) is easily one of the strongest spells in the game. It's a blink with decent range, it makes you untargetable, it's targeted, and the cooldown is very low with basic attacks and resets. Frankly it's overloaded and Master Yi would be a much better champion (and easier to balance) if it was split into two spells, a gapcloser and a defense (like more modern champions, Yasuo and Fiora). Wuju Style should be a passive or something more interesting, it's just outdated and doesn't do anything functional. Highlander needs a rework, 7 seconds is too short for what it needs to do. Meditate needs more buffs.

Yi is supposted to be about speed and agility, meanwhile he felt into the less mobile side, hes only "fast" when ult is up, cant jump walls, he doesent fit his theme at all right now, without highlander you feel like an old man on wheel chair.

Agreed, he's only mobile when he's curbstomping his opponents and feasting on resets.

Making trash tier champion useful is much harder than playing meta jungler, and i will go even further step ahead and say that Master Yi is much harder to play than Jarvan or Lee Sin around Diamond elo, you can compare it to bringing a knife to a gun fight, yes knife is easier to use than gun, but try to make anything happen with it..

Good comparison, he's the Garen of junglers.

Farm junglers like Yi dont gain edge through farming even if their opponents fails a gank multiple times, camps have such long spawn time, very often i just sit waiting for anything to spawn, you cant just go and counter jungle cause is too risky cause theres no way to escape, also Yi is no longer good for objective control.

The facts that Alpha Strike is a targeted spell and Highlander is as simple as pressing a button, make him such a noobstomp champion, but too inflexible for high elo.

Either not enough damage to kill for reset or not enough survivability to get a kill at all, its almost impossible to pass through all that shields, cc and heals to even trade 1:1 with enemy carry, meanwhile you just dissapear as soon as alpha animation finishes and going semi-tank build your damage is too low to kill before highlander ends so split pushing is not an option anymore for Yi.

It wasn't too bad before, but this preseason there's too much damage in general and many melee champions are suffering for it.

All trash tier junglers share one common issue - bloodrazor, this item sucks and there was not a single game this seasson in competitive play where someone picked farm jungler / uses this item as core, and there was not a single attempt to buff this item either. Bloodrazor along with BorK was supposted to counter tanks, but actually, tanks dont give a fck about both right now.

Attack speed melees are so bad in League of Legends, at higher levels you're never able to consistently DPS enemies.

There was not a single Yi main higher than D5 this seasson

That doesn't sound right but I don't care to do a lookup at the moment

New runes fixed nothing, lets be real, when champion is garbage, even runes wont help, its not like some runes are exclusive for farm junglers only..

It's funny people thought Lethal Tempo would be OP on Master Yi, in practice you die too fast for it to be useful.

DunkinNoobs2 votes

{quoted}

Attack speed melees are so bad in League of Legends, at higher levels you're never able to consistently DPS enemies.

Hence why Yasuo simply isn't that good no matter how much people whine about him.

It Hertz When IP2 votes

For the umpteenth time, Yasuo isn't OP, he's just miserably aggravating to face.

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

It's a blink with decent range, it makes you untargetable, it's targeted, and the cooldown is very low with basic attacks and resets.

did they fix that? i can swear aoe has killed me in alpha before.

Carnicore1 votes

It does bug occasionally and fail to protect you from stuff. AoE damage is the most common occurrence.

RazorRaijin6 votes

Amen to all that.

dominusx1 votes

it's just cowsep smurfs doesnt count. jk

Handy Sandy 4 votes

Yi stomps low elo - false, he stomps nothing, you cant carry alone anymore

No, until like gold where people don't just say "cc the yi" and actually do it, he's still strong. He can't be balanced in high and low elo without doing something to his invulnerability and/or damage. Stuff like Fizz who has invulnerability can be called balanced because Fizz doesn't have 400 ms and is capable of killing your whole team in 4-5 autoattacks.

I agree he's weaker in higher elos, but any buffs will completely break him for lower ones.

Az Lusheni Az2 votes

[deleted]

Handy Sandy 1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Az Lusheni Az,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EPTUFn7d,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-11-15T05:24:19.056+0000)

You make no sense here. if he stomps low elo, he should have a high win rate there.

He does

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/masteryi/silver 52% winrate after 10 games, and it only increases with more games played up to 55%. 49% winrate, that's not that bad.

Just look at his win rate from bronze to challenger, he gets worse the higher he goes.

Goes down to 45% in diamond, but still 52%+ when playing him often.

How about champions get balanced around all elo? This is why we keep seeing same picks in competitive play all year because of comments like yours.

So let's buff him, make a champion more unfun to play against than Twitch to be permabanned in low elo, and when not banned, stomp games? That's just begging for a whole new Yasuo

Az Lusheni Az1 votes

{quoted}

He does

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/masteryi/silver 52% winrate after 10 games, and it only increases with more games played up to 55%. 49% winrate, that's not that bad.

Goes down to 45% in diamond, but still 52%+ when playing him often.

So let's buff him, make a champion more unfun to play against than Twitch to be permabanned in low elo, and when not banned, stomp games? That's just begging for a whole new Yasuo

Yet I do not see you play yi at all. if you consider win rates after 10 games to average a player base of millions then you sure need to sit down and learn how statistics works.

Commander White3 votes

[deleted]

PiVoRx1 votes

Ye, farm junglers have nothing to farm, unless you can counter jungle, but Yi cant. There are huge gaps in camp spawn times that you should be using for ganks, but yi cant gank aswell..

Sewer Side2 votes

Sure, right about the same time Kindred stops being a garbage meme.

Snowplosion3 votes

So like now then?

Sewer Side3 votes

She's barely acceptable right now, and I'd argue similar tier as Yi.

Problem with both is they force your top laner to go tank or lose, especially if the enemy picks 1 or more tank.

Blåbæret1 votes

Farm junglers are trash and Rito has done zero, nil, absolutely nothing to change this. Picking Shyv or Yi is just wasting your team's time. Razor needs a buff.

But most importantly, snowball effect needs to be fixed and games need to last longer than 5 minutes.

DunkinNoobs3 votes

{quoted}

Farm junglers are trash and Rito has done zero, nil, absolutely nothing to change this. Picking Shyv or Yi is just wasting your team's time. Razor needs a buff.

Shyvana has a 53% winrate, but ok. Yi is pretty garbage though.

10Tickler1 votes

Out of Curiosity, what build of Shyvana has that winrate?

Bet it's not Bloodrazer, but Warrior.

I bet!

DunkinNoobs3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Various Felonies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EPTUFn7d,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2017-11-15T06:04:52.424+0000)

Out of Curiosity, what build of Shyvana has that winrate?

Bet it's not Bloodrazer, but Warrior.

I bet!

It's her overall wiinrate. Considering almost no one builds warrior and almost everyone builds Razer, this would mean this winrate is what she gets with Razer.

Thefrostyviking4 votes

It's bloodrazor all the way, dragon stronk-

It's Bloodrazor+press the attack that seals the deal.

PiVoRx1 votes

Yes, Shyvana is quite good, she farms so fast and can safely counter jungle so shes always like 2 levels ahead of everyone.

Thefrostyviking2 votes

Good sir, did you know that Shyvana is the 4th highest on the korean winrate charts for junglers?

And a 3,7% playrate*

She is clearly not bad if you are good at it.

Yizus Nazaretský1 votes

[deleted]

Red Wreckage2 votes

^this guy seems special

PiVoRx2 votes

Return to your cave, and seal it for good this time.

Need Gold 4 Tent1 votes

Yi is supposted to be about speed and agility, meanwhile he felt into the less mobile side, hes only "fast" when ult is up, cant jump walls, he doesent fit his theme at all right now, without highlander you feel like an old man on wheel chair.

Nearly everything outruns slowlander when it's up anyway

Thefrostyviking2 votes

What outruns him exactly? O_O

Sion ulting?

Full crit Jhin with precision movespeed rune?

Hecarim with ghost+E?

I can honestly not think of anything else that is straight up faster than him when he ults.......

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

fiora.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

........Yi at lvl 6 get's a 1,25 multiplier towards his total movespeed when ulting.

With basic boots that's a 475 movespeed, for 7 seconds and 7 extra per kill or assist.

Fiora with basic boots has 370, if she hits something with phage passive then she get's a bonus 20.

When she procs a vital she´ll get a bonus multiplier of 20% which decays down over 1,75 sec.

Which is a total of 444,

Thus i can safely conclude that Yi is faster, if only a little but for a noticeably longer time.

Fiora´s one advantage is the ability to cross thin walls freely.

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

except her movement speed bonus scales up to 50%, 30% at 6 which puts her at 481 (no phage proc). faster than yi AND she has dashes.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

ah my bad, failed to notice it went up at 6.

However it still fades much too fast to really outrun him, 1,75 sec might be long in terms of CC but it's not really so long when just running around.

And she has to attack someone to get the movespeed,she can't just Q in the other direction for a massive speedbuff.

To put it simply, it's the difference in activation conditions.

And if we do not count phage speedup, then at lvl 16 they end up having 585 and 580 movspeed.

Fiora is slightly faster but her speed buff is so much shorter.

And many Yi´s will build either a Zeal item or even black cleaver itself, at least in Korea, when this happens he will be faster than Fiora.

Thus i admit its true that Fiora can outrun Yi....for about 1,2 seconds if procing a vital, as long as he does not ulti and does not have a zeal or phage item.

But given the fact that she has to go aggressively to get that movespeed while he just presses a button for a massive speed and attackspeed buff& slow immunity i think it's fair enough x)

XxDRAGONsAK47xX1 votes

Master yi is bad in gold...?

Bruh, I build full crit and 2 shot ADCS lmao. As long as my team follows up we win.

I kill adc, maybe damage someone else, enemy kills me, our team wins fight because we have ADC.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

Isn't there a Yi main in Challenger? Or Masters? Or some crap like that?

And there's Dark Harvest that works pretty damned well for farming junglers...

The Yetii Rider1 votes

"Without ult you feel like an old man in a wheelchair."

Master Yi has 355 base movement speed. The highest movement speed in the game. Pantheon is tied with him but no one is faster than him.

"Farm junglers like Yi don't gain enough edge through farming"

https://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/iLMv2kLV-pbe-jungle-notes-notes-on-updated-jungle-for-622?comment=00080000

Working as intended.

"All trash tier junglers share one common issue - bloodrazor"

False. Fiddlesticks Ivern Nunu Skarner

"There was not a single Yi main higher than D5 this season"

...What?

http://www.op.gg/summoner/userName=cowsep

Cowsep had a 54% win rate on Master Yi over 1427 games through Season 7. He's Diamond 4 right now.

Commando Yi2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EPTUFn7d,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2017-11-15T16:44:13.524+0000)

http://www.op.gg/summoner/userName=cowsep

Cowsep had a 54% win rate on Master Yi over 1427 games through Season 7. He's Diamond 4 right now.

do you really not understand how bad those numbers look for the state of yi?

The Yetii Rider1 votes

I didn't say Yi was bad or good. I said that the statement was false. Whether the data I have presented makes Yi look better or not is irrelevant, there are clearly Yi players who are higher than Diamond 5 this season.

Ahri Inari1 votes

I had to drop Yi for grinding from high platinum to diamond. Yi suck ass.

Karn Bishop1 votes

You ask for yi to be in a good spot, just realize that by asking that you must give up master yi's R ability as the majority of his power budget is tied up in ignoring slows, fears, charms and polymorph abilities. which makes certain matchups an auto win for him.

He probably will get a mini rework of his skills and i guarantee R will be one of ths skills to be removed as the only skill iconic to yi is alpha strike.

PiVoRx2 votes

Slowlander only ignores slows, what do you mean by ignoring everything else? Lulu polymorph is P&C, so as fiddlesticks fear.

Karn Bishop1 votes

Additional Information:

Highlander has no cast time and does not interrupt Master Yi's previous orders.
Highlander's bonus movement speed is one of the few that stacks multiplicatively rather than additively.
Highlander's slow immunity extends to Fear icon fear, Disarm iconSilence icon polymorph, and attack speed slows (but not Charm Charm or Frost Frost unless detonated by Permafrost Permafrost) 

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Master_Yi/Abilities

PiVoRx1 votes

Thi is some outdated BS, fear is one of the hardes slowlander counter cause it forces you to run in opposite direction with full ms, also it never worked against polymorphs.

chipndip11 votes

Yi doesn't ignore hard cc with R. He ignores slows.

Example: A charm has him run in full speed towards you.

Oganesson1 votes

Nope, charm slows you down while running towards the enemy, and fear makes you run full speed in the opposite direction. Sounds like bs, right?

GripaAviara1 votes

Yeah right, master yi is top tier. I always ban that fker

INIROBO1 votes

LOL, impressive report.

I've mained master yi for 2 years. Since S5 preseason to S7 preseason. After those dates, I was like fuk this garbage. One can't even play this champion. I play it in ranked, team already tilted for doing it. I play it in normals, try hard. I don't play it, I don't have time to start learning another champ Kappa. And it's like Riot doesn't give a fuk. I keep looking at champion update schedule every month to see if master yi is in the list, it's never in the list. It's already 1 year and a half since I constantly check if master yi is getting a rework. WTF, why does Irelia need a rework, she has 51% winrate!! and it's not as old as master yi!!. What?, another rework?, Oh... It's for... the fuking Swain!! (ok, this champ might be a bit old-stylish), but pls... pls don't talk about the nerfs that yi had 1 year or so ago, no, better doing talk about that. Just forget that yi was nerfed because of the OP attack speed jungle item that doesn't exist any more and didn't get buffed back to balance the game again. No, just let those shitty master yi players play thier shitty as game in elo hell while we keep releasing skins and new champions to make the most money out of it. In addition, I liked a lot that now Riot decided to start reworking champions instead of making changes to the game, that was a great idea, but that of making a new rune/mastery system that just satisfies the needs of half of League of Legends champions. Now don't tell me that, hehehe but... ehm... Riot should... ehm ehm... improve the gamplay experience of the vast mayority of people... ehm... if you are the minority ehm... play meta champions so you enjoy the game too hehe... That's for me just like Satan itself trying to tempt me to the sin. I don't fuking want to play meta champions. I just look at the list of most played champions and highest winrate champions and what I see is a shit ton of champions that make a rotation of who is in the top 5 between the top 15-20 and if a sub-top 20 tries to get a place in teh top 20, it's like they ask politely Riot "Hey, what about nerfing X champion, seems like it's going up in popularity and you that it doesn't have much skins that people can waste their money in, neither a bunch amount of gamplers playing that champion, neither a professional league of legends player that plays it.

Maybe I'll stop. Interesting post to read. It made me remember how much I hate how this game works, ofc and as always, with a capitalist decision making. The top to the sky and the bottom to the dirt. Even though, I did mention before that I liked that you started reworking more champions, thank you for that ;^)

ShishouMatt1 votes

Yi has his place as a Master teaching monkeys his ways. So that they may reach high ELO for him one day...

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