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Swain looks cool.. but...

Better Jungler··6 votes·664 views

Its not swain anymore.. Honestly if someone showed me the abilities, I would think its a vladimir rework.

What do you guys think?

Edit: This post wasnt to degrade Riot's work. Just an observation that this could easily, and more likely (IMO) be a rework for vladimir.

Tanky Lifesteal Mage with red circular spells, and an explosion similar to vlads abilities. The soul mechanics will help to differentiate, but theres no denying similarities;P

Edit 2: The amount of people just saying "NOPE, NO SIMILARITIES, YOU'RE DUMB." is ridiculous.

Vlads E Tides of Blood is a large red circle that explodes, healing him and damaging opponents. Swains ult is a large red circle that damages enemies and heals him.

Vlads ult is a small red circle that deals damage after a delay Swains W is a small red circle that deals damage after a delay.

Vlads Q heals him after reaching max stacks. Swains passive heals him after he lands an E (root)

26 Comments

ModKnightsKemplar10 votes

I haven't played any other champ as much as Swain, and I'm very happy with the direction.

Swain and Vlad have in-game ties, so it's possible those connections are somewhat intentional. I doubt they would make decisions like that accidentally.

Soul mechanics, vision, and pulling are all pretty different from anything vlad has ever offered; I get that the ult is something that would make sense on Vlad, but Swain had the AoE healing ult first... so it's actually still closer to him. Swain and Vlad just already overlapped quite a bit; if he didn't now, it would be further off Swain's original concept.

Better Jungler2 votes

I like the direction as well, looks a bit more healthy than "Press R and wait" in terms of gameplay.

This post wasnt to degrade Riot's work. Just an observation that this could easily, and more likely (IMO) be a rework for vladimir.

Tanky Lifesteal Mage with red circular spells, and an explosion similar to vlads abilities. The soul mechanics will help to differentiate, but theres no denying similarities;P

I am reading through all of swains lore/history, and cant seem to find Vlad anywhere. Can you cure my ignorance to how they're related?

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/The_Black_Rose

As far as your critique, Swain was already a drain tank, as was Vlad. If Swain wasn't a drain tank anymore, then it would have been way further away from Swain's identity, as I said above. The red visuals are fitting given that he's Noxian and demonic; the green/purple was kind of cartoony for his base skin, imo.

Given that, would you rather see purple effects that were closer to his old spells? That might be an argument I could get behind, but I still like the red. Either way, Vlad and Swain have always been similar, so it's not a new problem.

Better Jungler1 votes

Personally, I associate the color purple with Warlock, and green/black with demonic energy. Which is what Swains supposed to be now (i think?)

Red I associate with blood.

I like the red, I like the kit, I like the abilities, I like Swain, I like Vladimir.

My ONLY point, is that there is similarities between the two.

Thanks for that link. Reading now.

Edit:

Vlads swains high ranking official. Thats interesting. I didn't know that!

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Looking at the voice lines in the new Swain kit, it looks like they're actually setting the Black Rose up as an opponent to Swain. We'll see where Vlad falls on those lines... I can't imagine we won't be getting a huge dose of Noxus lore pretty soonish.

Better Jungler1 votes

Ooo that sounds awesome actually. I wish Riot focused more on Lore. I feel like that used to be a major theme, and it kinda slowed down.

GP TF Graves and MF had that pirate event a couple years back, one of my favorite periods of storytelling Riots ever done. Hope to see more in 2018.

H1 H0w are Ya7 votes

Read Swain's actual lore.

It matches him perfectly. The original swain doesnt match his play style at all.

Riot did an awesome job

Better Jungler1 votes

The earliest account of Swain's existence comes from a Noxian infirmary doctor's notes. According to them, Swain limped into the ward without cry or complaint; his right leg was snapped in half, with bone protruding from the skin. A small, scowling bird seemed affixed to his shoulder. The doctor gawked in horror as the young adolescent answered questions about his health and age with a calm, even stare. Even behind the echoing crack as the sand counterweights reset his tibia, Swain's measuring gaze never flickered, nor did his eyes twitch from the pop of his fibula. He refused the doctor's recommendation of magical treatment for the leg's inoperable damage, requesting only a spare crutch before shuffling away. He next surfaced in documents from the Noxian military, although it is evident that they are incomplete. Normally a crippled boy would be turned away in shame from Noxus' proud legion, but the records indicate his first designation was that of a ranking officer.

The men who've served under him (and survived) have remained in his charge with unshakable faith and loyalty. He leapt through the High Command's hierarchy, often ascending when superiors requested demotions to join his unit. A cunning strategist, Swain was decorated after every battle he fought, regularly hobbling in contemplation at the front of the assault. His rise to power seemed unceasing until he was suddenly removed from the order of battle prior to the Ionian Invasion - a bewildering decision which reeked of bureaucratic subversion. If Swain was upset by the events which unfolded, he never revealed it. His face was so implacable that it was popularly rumored to be a mask, disguising something utterly inhuman beneath. More controversy surrounded the bird that never left his shoulder, whose name he whispered only to it.

I'm having a hard time finding anything with vlad/how this is a better match to the character of swain.

I think Riot made an interesting champ with a much healthier kit than old swain...

But you cant deny it has alot more similarities with vlad than it does with the character we've come to know Swain to be.

H1 H0w are Ya1 votes

It looks like vlad. THe gameplay is nothing like Vlad outside of maybe their ults being kind of similar?

Better Jungler1 votes

Not trying to argue here. They are similar playstyles.

Red circular spells, lifesteal, tanky mages.

Vlads E Tides of Blood is a large red circle that explodes, healing him and damaging opponents. Swains ult is a large red circle that damages enemies and heals him.

Vlads ult is a small red circle that deals damage after a delay Swains W is a small red circle that deals damage after a delay.

Vlads Q heals him after reaching max stacks. Swains passive heals him after he lands an E (root)

Theres a point where you cant just deny someone elses opinion. When 3 mechanics of the champion, and the overall "Look" of the champion is extremely similar, they're probably pretty similar. (Tall white tanky mages with white hair and red eyes)

H1 H0w are Ya1 votes

Using this logic i could probably make 50 champions look identical

Better Jungler1 votes

Ok. Enjoy your unbending opinion in the face of blatant proof and logic based evidence.

H1 H0w are Ya1 votes

OK bud, dont you have some Rick and Morty to go watch?

Better Jungler1 votes

This is the exact reason the boards have been getting the negative reaction from riot and the community. Its not a discussion based forum to explore interesting concepts and ideas, its an echo chamber to farm upvotes.

If someone has a disagreement in opinions, immature people resort to insults and downvotes, rather than trying to seek out the other side's perspective. Its a really bad mindset to have in every facet of life. Every kind of legitimate attempts to gain knowledge begins at throwing aside your emotional bias, and considering the opposing views.

I never once said "Swain = Vlad!, RIOT SUCKS, SAME CHAMP 2 SKINS"

My entire point was that there is similarities between the two. And while others chose to agree/disagree and provide decent opposing opinions you went with the "echo chamber upvote farm" reply of:

"You're wrong, Riots awesome!"

I won't be replying anymore to this post. Enjoy the rest of your day.

H1 H0w are Ya1 votes

Hate to break it to you, but on the boards "You're wrong, Riot's Awesome" would get loaded with downvotes

VeganScout4 votes

Agree its vlad. Dont mind the fanboys they like everything.

Its like a vlad ultimate skin

Edge of Daybreak3 votes

Similar impression i got if you told me that was vladimir i would believe it

Wînter Fox2 votes

The only reason you say it looks like Vlad is because his spells are red now

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Better Jungler1 votes

He's a lifesteal focused tanky mage that has red spells, its a tall white male with long white hair, and his ult explodes like vlads abilities.

Theres plenty more than just "spells are red."

Don't fanboy to the point where you blind yourself to similarities.

Honestly, if you just saw these abilities, would you think "Vlad" within the first few minutes?

Wînter Fox1 votes

He's always been a lifesteal focused tanky mage. So what's different in your list is red spells, white hair, and a pop at the end of his ult.

Were you making the same complaint with Zoe and Lux too? They both are female artillery Mages with light hait and eyes.

Ornn and Nautilus? Nasus and Renekton? Darius and Garen?

Better Jungler1 votes

Dunno why you're so hostile ^.^

Zoe and Ornn were new champs, with plenty to differentiate themselves from the other oldschool champs you mentioned. It wasnt one old school champ being transformed into a similar version of a different oldschool champ.

In 5 years when they make zoe's E a snare, her ult a giant ray of light energy, and give her an annoying laugh, then yes.. I'll say she's similar to lux.

Nasus and Renekton have very little in common in terms of kit.. THey both get big while ulting.. But so does Gnar (kinda) and volibear.

Darius and Garen are kinda similar. They both have a circular spin attack. An execute as an ult and are built as heavily armored dudes with short brown hair.

Read the post again, not one part here is a complaint.

Vlads E Tides of Blood is a large red circle that explodes, healing him and damaging opponents. Swains ult is a large red circle that damages enemies and heals him.

Vlads ult is a small red circle that deals damage after a delay Swains W is a small red circle that deals damage after a delay.

Vlads Q heals him after reaching max stacks. Swains passive heals him after he lands an E (root)

[slayer-jinx-catface]

Wînter Fox1 votes

My point is the comparisons are shallow. Vlad and Swain both having a skill that's "a large red circle that explodes" is the exact same thing as Nasus and Renekton getting big when they ult.

If a new person to that game came in and said almost all the champions in LoL are similar because they all have 3 skills, 1 ult, and take Flash. While he/she's not wrong, those are certainly similarities, it's just a very superficial comparison.

Better Jungler1 votes

your point is simplifying my argument so you dont have to accept an opposing view. Its literally no different than saying

"The comparisons are shallow, Ezreal is alot like Sion because they're both in League of legends."

I gave 4 points of evidence about different abilities, with the same color scheme, the same mechanic, then went to the physical appearance and found another similarity.

Would you consider Lux and Morgana similar?

I would.

Q roots, E is a aoe damage, w is a shield. Both are women, both are mid/support champs.

No different than my comparison here.

I am not saying swain and vlad are the same champion. I am saying they are very similar in terms of the lifesteal mechanic, the color scheme, the general look of abilities and the physical attributes of new swain vs vlad (white hair, tall white males, red eyes)

Pandeonor2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Better Jungler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EOXTkO9R,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-01-23T18:32:40.401+0000)

Its not swain anymore.. Honestly if someone showed me the abilities, I would think its a vladimir rework.

What do you guys think?

Exactly the same. +1

PopcornBunni1 votes

Passive is still a sustain mechanic but has an added cc synergy. Difference being the sustain is in the form of health instead of mana.

Q role moved to W -- An area control tool E is still an aimed root, but with stronger success cases and easier to avoid R is nearly identical, and as given the same kind of treatment as Xin-Zhao's mini rework

The only spell that's radically different is the addition of his Q, replacing the point-click DoT of his W with an aimed waveclear tool. Even then, it still functions as a parallel to his prior version by being his new mana sustain tool.

Plenty of reworks have changed characters far more dramatically than this.

[Evelynn Galio Urgot Taric INTENSIFY]

Better Jungler1 votes

I like this new champ. Feels a bit more healthy in terms of counter play. He will be a monster in teamfights if his team gets the first kill. He isnt just "Press R and survive" anymore.

The other reworks have been major. Galio especially. But I don't feel like anyone besides Urgot really "Lost" their image or playstyle. So kudos to riot on that.

Long as Udyr gets a visual update in 2k18 I'll be happy ^.^

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