I don't care if Fiora is balanced or not, she's just painful to play against.

Sorgklaan··74 votes·5,005 views

When I lane against her, I want to just dig my teeth into my arm. She dashes on you instantly and chunks you, then she's gone again before you can even react. According to riot, she was supposed to be a hypercarry, but she completely trashes me early on.

I realize she can be countered, but even when you completely counter her with Darius or something, she's so obnoxious to play against. The mix of damage, mobility, and sustain is just painful. Most of the time when I try to kill her early on, she just draintanks everything.

Not to mention she doesn't use mana. She has a mana bar, but it may as well not exist. It feels like she's dashing on top of my every time it's up, but her mana bar never goes under 80%

117 Comments

The Bíg Ticket24 votes

No new or reworked champion has mana anymore. Darius Q is like 25 mana, Fiora's is 20, Kindred's 30, etc...compare it to Jax' Q mana cost of 65 or Irelia's Q which costs 60 mana.

And yeah she is super broken and retarded to play against.

Secret Butt Fun6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Buff Jax please,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EN2bgU0E,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-01-11T22:07:52.162+0000)

No new or reworked champion has mana anymore. Darius Q is like 25 mana, Fiora's is 20, Kindred's 30, etc...compare it to Jax' Q mana cost of 65 or Irelia's Q which costs 60 mana.

And yeah she is super broken and retarded to play against.

I play Kindred a lot and she has terrible mana issues.

Yes, it's 30 mana, but when you put down W, the Q cooldown becomes 2 seconds, and if you're spamming Q during the entire fight, which you will, it accumulates and essentially drains your mana by half with every gank.

The Bíg Ticket3 votes

So you expect to not run out of mana when spamming an ability?

Halo4 votes

Well thats the thing, they have low cost because of the low cd. You spam them. Fiora too has allot of mana issues

The Bíg Ticket3 votes

Compare it to Jax or Irelia...Fiora uses her Q 3 times and has used the same amount of mana as Jax and Irelia after using their Q once. Just because an ability is off cd doesn't mean you have to use it.

Halo7 votes

Well of course they do, they work completely diffrently from eachother and have you ever heard of power budget?

First of all, this is fioras main damage spell wich is not the case for jax and irelia, u can compare it to trundles q in that matter.

Irelias Q has a reset funtionality with 35 mana refund, hence the mana cost, it also has 300 longer range than fiora.

Jax Q has a shorter cooldown if used as only excape and also has 250 longer rage than fioras Q. ______________________________________________

Secondly you are both right and wrong in your statement because this is not correct the moment fioras Q gets to level 4/5 then it takes more or as much as Irelias and jax Q once.


Thirdly, cooldowns matter.

Usualy a spell that has a low cd is allot weaker than a spell that has a longer cooldown and hence you need to use it more. If fiora is in a fight with somone she has to spam. She probably uses her q about 5-8 9 times depending on the enemy. wich results in a mana consumption of around 200 - 350 mana only from her Q, if we take all other skills in to account it would be allot more.

MunchCrunchLunch12 votes

she shouldn't have a slow. for a champion that has an MS boost.

TrickMagnet11 votes

to be honest the only real problems i have left with fiora are:

1: procing her passive gives too much reward for whats essentially rng. i'm fine with % true damage. i'm fine with the heal. i'm fine with movespeed for getting in then getting out. i'm not fine with her getting all 3 because i can't keep the vital that's sitting directly in her line of sight from getting popped. if this is supposed to be a DUEL, i should be able to counterattack while she's jumping on me. if she gets to heal damage, deal damage, and get assisted in her retreat, it's kind of just obnoxious all in all

2: classified as a light fighter but she basically gets two offensive items and then builds tank. not a fan. she should be incentivized more for attack speed i think, or really some offensive statistic, because being able to rely solely off true damage and black cleavers shred and then full tank is kinda dumb to be honest

aside from that she's alright imo

Angry Monster9 votes

The problem is % max health true damage. It is a bad stat for the game. The stat it self removes every ounce of counter play. It becomes a pure number game for firoa. Question do i have enough damage/cdr to proc my ult before i die? Y/N yes i kill the enemy, No poke/skirmish till i can ult and win or leave to buy items to win next time.

Once Fio is ahead their is never a legit answer. But riot will say successful design.

Only Play Darius8 votes

Why does the boards love to call the most skill based, counterplay loaded champions toxic?Fiora Zed

MunchCrunchLunch32 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EN2bgU0E,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-01-11T22:58:31.927+0000)

Why does the boards love to call the most skill based, counterplay loaded champions toxic?Fiora Zed

sure 4 shotting a tank with 5k health is really skill based. its not like you have an on hit slow and an ms boost to make your life easier

Dar Raksada19 votes

{quoted}

sure 4 shotting a tank with 5k health is really skill based. its not like you have an on hit slow and an ms boost to make your life easier

if she's building enough damage to 4shot a tank (yes, I know about the ult) then why is she surviving long enough to 4shot a tank.

Earl Eulrich15 votes

because a tank deals no relevant dmg? it´s not 5v5s that she´s inherently broken, but splitpushing and skirmishing.

Dar Raksada18 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EN2bgU0E,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-12T01:06:52.944+0000)

because a tank deals no relevant dmg? it´s not 5v5s that she´s inherently broken, but splitpushing and skirmishing.

so why is a tank trying to 1v1 fiora? Other champs will make short work of tanks too, you don't 1v1 certain champions, especially as a tank.

Earl Eulrich4 votes

in a teamfight: because he initiated and his team is busy with trying to kill the adc/apc while fiora is just slaugthering him otherwise: because someone has to push sidelanes from time to time, and on many occastions toplaners do that - at least on toplane.

Xengre2 votes

In laning phase or if she duels someone in the jungle early game... or if wards catch someone split pushing/she is nearby or wandering through enemy jungle... If she manages to survive long enough in the team fight to take out the last tanky or two champs that would have wrecked almost anyone else... etc.

Her laning phase is particularly annoying because even 200-300 armor can see you melting to her excessively fast. Most champs simply can not duel her due to the damage wall she puts up and her MS/aspd slow, mobility, and the ease at which her marks can be activated (what a joke, there really is no skill involved with out it is currently designed with her kit). Unfortuantely, even without her ult she can still beat most champs in a fight, possibly even when behind or in a 1v2 situation. You can't really build to counter her and if you don't build tanky you will die even faster, no contest. With her ult and mobility it just means she can kill you under your own tower as well. It isn't quite as bad in a team fight if she goes with a heavy damage build but even a moderate offensive itemization is more than enough on her. In lane you just have to pick a ranged champ, or someone that can competently farm safely or deal with her (note: there is no "safely" if the Fiora player is good enough as she can chuck you and be out far harder than you or the tower can return and she can rinse and repeat). Draft you can try to manage this, blind pick is much harder unless a teammate is willing to swap but then you are once again out of your element, possibly as a top vs mid laner.

UnderscorBunnies1 votes

Wait, it sounds like you think that Fiora can pick which side the vitals show up on. You also seem to be under the assumption that she will always be able to hit a vital if it shows up. The only way this is going to happen is if her lane opponent is straight up unaware of her passive, or if they just stand still while she dashes around them, both of which are incredibly stupid, and irrelevant situations.

Xengre1 votes

Nah, she can't pick which side they show up on but she can almost always reach it fairly easily. She has a spammable dash that almost guarantees a hit on a vital that runs at 6.4-3.2 CD BEFORE CD reduction, a MS steroid that isn't exactly weak, two slows or potential stun and phage is a great grab on her... the odds of her having issues dancing around you to hit vitals is likely to be trivial in most realistic cases. It doesn't matter if the vital is on the opposite side of you from her, she will generally be able to easily hit it against anything but ranged champs. Oh, there is the potential for Red Buff/Smite/teammate slows/CC as well...

UnderscorBunnies1 votes

What part of her being able to dash every 5 seconds means that she's going to hit a vital each time she does? Am I missing a hidden quality in her Q that stuns all enemies in her lane when she uses it, allowing her to just walk up and smack vitals willy nilly?

Xengre1 votes

Example: She goes into near/melee range in lane when target tries to CS or poke her (as most tops tend to be melee oriented) and she hits them, possibly with her E which gives increased range (if memory serves me correctly) causing a significant slow and giving her a MS steroid. This could be the first proc but if it is not she is now more than easily able to move into position for the 1st/2nd proc while she has a massive MS advantage unless they can dash. If they went in first on her she parries causing slow/stun and moves in.

Next, she can continue to move towards the next vital which should be easy as she is likely in front or on the side of her target at this point unless the first vital was on her initial side for a 2nd, possibly 3rd, easy vital. If she is not she can dash to them for the next vital, but she likely wont need to due to having more MS than her target from her passive and possibly phage meaning possibly significantly outrunning the enemy. She hits the 3rd, possibly 4th, vital.

At any of these points she can Q to almost guarantee a free vital and being caught up to move into position for the next because she will usually have more MS then many of her lane opponents due to her passive (increased during ult as well) and phage (if she has it already) but she also has two slows/a stun. Depending on when she used Q she may be able to active a second Q. Q prioritizes exposed vitals. Enemies usually will not have more MS than her so they will either not out run her or will move slower than her unless they have a dash or can CC her which she can counter both options depending on how she engages her opponent with her dash/CC null and mind games/strat. She can often go for a 4th vital under their own tower due to how powerful the heal is when the 4th vital or target dies and because even without the heal she usually will heavily out trade most enemies and have significant HP remaining and may even Q back out as well as having her MS buff.

It is actually silly how easy it is to get the vitals off with Fiora and I barely touched on the options she has to make this happen. For some reason you seem to think they can out run her (false due to her passive, two slows/stun, gap closer that is fairly spammable, and itemization route among other options like Red/smite/etc.). This is a similar reason why champs like Mordekaiser were more popular mid lane for a long time because it is a shorter lane than top lane and so it is safer. Top lane means they might be out far enough that they will not be able to get under tower fast enough, and even under a tower they aren't actually always safe from Fiora for reasons covered.

UnderscorBunnies1 votes

All of the situations provided are assuming that the person laning against a Fiora is playing with the attitude "Oh well, it's Fiora, GG me" and doesn't move while farming, and when attacked, runs in a straight line towards their turret, hoping to outrun a Fiora. Yes, if someone walked straight up to a minion to kill it, with a vital facing Fiora, they're asking for it. When a vital appears, there are a few things that they can do:
A) Walk away from Fiora, to reset her passive and the side the vital appeared on.
B) Put said vital against a wall, making it near impossible to Q onto, as well as just regularly hitting it in general. C) If a wall is not a viable option, position yourself respectively, due to the fact that apparently everyone assumes that these vitals are ridiculously powerful... so respect them.
D) Disregard it entirely mainly if it's on the exact opposite side of you than Fiora is. If you get close enough to a Fiora for her to Q through you, and proc a Vital on your back, you're doing something wrong.

Another thing to keep in mind, is that Fiora isn't going to just go in 100% of the time she procs a vital. You're a darius? Pull her in as she comes in, negating the Q, or just pulling her directly afterwards, bringing her close to you. AA for passive stacks, slow her, do w/e as long as you stay wary of her W. Chances are, if all the Fiora wanted to do was get some poke while laning, she's gonna try to back off, at which point a Darius would have easily won the trade. Obviously I picked a specific champion's kit for this example, but the concept stands. When she goes in, HIT HER IN THE FUCKING FACE, as long as you are wary of her W countering hard CC.

I never said you could outrun a Fiora either. You don't need to outrun her if you position well, or trade back. When you start running, you stop dealing damage, and thus making it easier for her to finish the kill. Her vitals are random, so it's not like she can consistently move to the correct side every time to get an ms buff. If for whatever reason you do need to run, don't run through a goddamn minion wave. If she Q's after you, and she's not in Q range to hit you, chances are, she'll get the cooldown reset by hitting the minion wave with it. If you run away through the jungle and she's not in Q range, she has to wait nearly twice as long before she can attempt to gapclose again.

I'm not saying Fiora is a bad champion, I'll be the first to admit that she's a relatively strong champion, that fits in the meta decently, along with being a strong duelist. What I am saying, is that she is not "broken", "overpowered", or "lacking counterplay". There are tons of easy ways to play around her in lane, and in teamfights.

A) When in lane, pay attention to the vitals as much as she is. If you have a vital that's really easy to hit for her, back off until it resets, or manually reset it by moving far enough away from Fiora. (I'm not entirely sure on when a vital despawns manually, but it has something to do with whether or not Fiora and her opponent see each other).
B) When looking to all-in, or even just trade, play around her W. Fiora's relatively squishy, and if you have a massively telegraphed hard CC or nuke, Fiora's W is a hard counter to it. Darius ult, or Sion ult for example.
C) Early on, although proccing vitals does heal her for about 20-50 health, she has very little sustain until she builds a vamp scepter for hydra, and even then it's still not all that much sustain. If you can output a lot of damage at once, thus dissuading her from prolonging the fight that results in a chase, you can easily bully her out of lane. D) Her ult applies a debuff "Grand Challenge". Like all debuffs, it can be QSS'd or cleansed, removing the vitals from your body, and removing her MS buff she gets from being near the person she challenged, E) In teamfights, treat her like an ADC. Get your tanks and support to peel for you, and once she uses her W, she's as good as dead, unless all 5 members of your team used all of their dmg/CC on her in the short instant that she W'd. If she doesn't target the adc when she goes in, but rather the tank, the adc better be shooting her in the face. It's not like she can W every auto attack that you pump out. F) Going with the same theme of needing peel to deal with her MS, keep in mind her ult can time out. Delaying Fiora (Flashing away, over a wall, just generally increaasing the amount of time it takes to get to you) will help time out the ult, again, making you lose the vitals, and her the ms buff. Zhonyas helps with this pretty well, especially because once you're Zhonyas'd she's just kinda sitting in the middle of a teamfight waiting for her main opponent to come out of stasis.

</rant>
LankPants6 votes

so why is a tank trying to 1v1 fiora? Other champs will make short work of tanks too, you don't 1v1 certain champions, especially as a tank.

There's only one other champ who can 1v1 kill a tank as fast as Fiora and that's Vayne.

Against other champs building durability actually makes you tankier, sure you probably won't be able to 1v1 a lot of champs but if you get stuck in a 1v1 with them you'll survive a little while longer because your defensive stats actually matter.

Here's my question, if you spend say 10k gold on defensive stats shouldn't you probably be able to survive a little longer for your investment?

Dar Raksada1 votes

{quoted}

There's only one other champ who can 1v1 kill a tank as fast as Fiora and that's Vayne.

Against other champs building durability actually makes you tankier, sure you probably won't be able to 1v1 a lot of champs but if you get stuck in a 1v1 with them you'll survive a little while longer because your defensive stats actually matter.

Here's my question, if you spend say 10k gold on defensive stats shouldn't you probably be able to survive a little longer for your investment?

You will survive a little longer, armor and hp will help against her physical damage. I agree you normally should, it's just that fiora is specifically set up as a tankbuster, which is why she was given %health true damage. There was a riot post explaining as much.

LankPants1 votes

You will survive a little longer, armor and hp will help against her physical damage.

Except that doesn't matter. She has enough true damage to just flat out kill you with true damage, armour and HP don't really buy you time as a tank because your bases are pretty much enough to negate her insignificant amount of physical damage VS you.

Sire Hippington3 votes

cause of lifesteal. every damage source of her besides the vitals works with lifesteal, her vitals heal her anyway and she can get reasonable defense even with alot of damage with items like maw, blackcleaver and steraks. Her base stats aren't to bad either. Also, most tanks have low damage, and their damage is rather bursty and telegraphed, makeing it easy to use her W against it.

Dar Raksada2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EN2bgU0E,comment-id=0002000000000001,timestamp=2016-01-12T15:22:03.446+0000)

cause of lifesteal. every damage source of her besides the vitals works with lifesteal, her vitals heal her anyway and she can get reasonable defense even with alot of damage with items like maw, blackcleaver and steraks. Her base stats aren't to bad either. Also, most tanks have low damage, and their damage is rather bursty and telegraphed, makeing it easy to use her W against it.

As I said before, you're not supposed to try and duel the grand duelist, unless you're an even better Duelist (Jax might be able to?) or you can kite her forever (Kalista Should be able to)

Sire Hippington2 votes

As otheres pointed out, there are situations in which one would have to 1v1 her, or atleast hold an tower 1v1, else her team would be able to take objectives with an number advantage, or she would get uncontested onjectives.

And no, there is prettymuch no champ that can outscale her 1v1. Your best shot is a burst/kite mage or maybe tristana as they have atleast a chance to keep her at distance and poke her down/clear waves. Kallista has to get into her Q range so she can't really kite her, as fiora doesn't rely on consistant AAs, but on short bursts with q+e, which she will get vs kallista. Jax just will die to fast 1v1 as he has no tools to prevent her from hitting vitals as she pleases in a duel.

The problem is that she automatically wins any 1v1 in the game at some point, even if behind in items, just because she's fiora, and her teamfighting isn't even bad. In many occasion she will even have a lead from lane, cause even if she can't 4shot early on, she still can out-trade most opponents and after getting lifesteal also out-sustain, and if ahead she often will be able to 1v2 as she can kill the first target really fast and her ult-heal prettymuch grants a second life vs the remaining opponent.

Dar Raksada2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EN2bgU0E,comment-id=000200000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-01-12T16:30:06.310+0000)

As otheres pointed out, there are situations in which one would have to 1v1 her, or atleast hold an tower 1v1, else her team would be able to take objectives with an number advantage, or she would get uncontested onjectives.

And no, there is prettymuch no champ that can outscale her 1v1. Your best shot is a burst/kite mage or maybe tristana as they have atleast a chance to keep her at distance and poke her down/clear waves. Kallista has to get into her Q range so she can't really kite her, as fiora doesn't rely on consistant AAs, but on short bursts with q+e, which she will get vs kallista. Jax just will die to fast 1v1 as he has no tools to prevent her from hitting vitals as she pleases in a duel.

The problem is that she automatically wins any 1v1 in the game at some point, even if behind in items, just because she's fiora, and her teamfighting isn't even bad. In many occasion she will even have a lead from lane, cause even if she can't 4shot early on, she still can out-trade most opponents and after getting lifesteal also out-sustain, and if ahead she often will be able to 1v2 as she can kill the first target really fast and her ult-heal prettymuch grants a second life vs the remaining opponent.

Kalista doesn't have to get within her q range to aa, not even morgana needs to do that. All ad carries that are actually played outrange her q, I think even Urgot's aa outranges her?

Kalista: Ranged 550 Fiora Q: Range 400.

If she's 4shotting people you can also burst her down, though admittedly you'll have to be wary of her parry. I'm fairly certain trynda can also 1v1 her, his ad shred will help a lot as will his ability to not die. Malza could probably do the same, though it'd depend if Fiora can parry his ult (which she can't do if malz lands q, or if he isn't predictable enough. There's a few champions that automatically win any 1v1 (well, not any, they give each other a run for their money).

I fully respect the fact that people dislike playing against Fiora though, just trying to give advice on how to deal with her.

Sire Hippington2 votes

Fioras Q-dash range is 400, but the followup attack has ~200, and her AAs have 150, and you rarly can complete an attack at maxrange. If fiora walks towards kallista, she will probably get into ~500-525 range befor kallista does the AA, which allows a good fiora to easily land q+aa+aa-reset with E, and if she did hit a vital, that ms boost+phage usually give enough speed to catch up for the second E. I played vs kallista as fiora and had not the slightest issue of getting kited, mostly cause q+aa+e+hydra took ~70% of her hp already. Malzahar has later on no chance as fiora can easily get item 3139 vs him, tryn has the problem that she can just kite him duering his ult.

I think the savest call would be YI, he just has way to much raw damage 1v1 later on, he will probably kill her befor she can pop more than 2 vitals, and riposte would just delay that wihout really doing anything. Though there for he strugles early a lot, fiora doesn't.

UnderscorBunnies1 votes

When you have the Q range, make sure to account for the fact that while she dashes a surprisingly short distance, she can stab about 1/2 of the distance she dashed further forward, effectively extending the ability for when she goes in, but not for escaping.

MunchCrunchLunch3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dar Raksada,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EN2bgU0E,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-01-12T01:04:14.570+0000)

if she's building enough damage to 4shot a tank (yes, I know about the ult) then why is she surviving long enough to 4shot a tank.

because tanks don't do enough damage to 1v1 a fiora in lane

Left Hook Larry1 votes

She does true dmg?

FrickendaChicken4 votes

Fiora's whole job is to chunk tanks or squishies that get in her face. If you take her true damage out of her kit, then she doesn't have anything.

Xelvi5 votes

{quoted}

Fiora's whole job is to chunk tanks or squishies that get in her face. If you take her true damage out of her kit, then she doesn't have anything.

You realise that's literally everyone, right? If she can chunk a tank she's going to destroy everyone else... derp (and she does).

NB money5 votes

[deleted]

Daedalus8715 votes

I like how you say there's tons of counterplay for Fiora, but then only list counterpicks.

NB money1 votes

its still ezy to counter play fiora, just back off enough to remove the passive and hopefully it will respawn on a hard angle when ur in range. then u can just b8 her out when she tries to q the vital. and kiting fiora is ezy. also if u just avoid her w u get a free few secs to hit on her with fear of nothing. fioras e also has a long cooldown (all her abilities beside ult do) so just b8 it out. tbh fiora is all about doging her w and b8 out a bad q and e. don't ingage her when there all up.

Daedalus8712 votes

I can't tell if you are being serious or not.

Sasogwa15 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EN2bgU0E,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-01-11T22:58:31.927+0000)

Why does the boards love to call the most skill based, counterplay loaded champions toxic?Fiora Zed

Oh skill based does NOT mean counterplay loaded. at all. Zed is skill based, and has counterplay to his ult via various spells of untargetability. Fiora has... What's her counterplay? You can't outright launch CC at her because she's gonna throw it back at you if she's good. The thing is, when you play against Fiora, you don't win if you're good, you win if she's bad. She has the tools to deal with pretty much everything. And she can build very bruisery while having retarded damage output and her ult grants her the teamfight potential she shouldn't have as a 'duellist'. Again, one of those champions that's either toxic or too weak. She might even be weak AND toxic if we nerf her more.

And fuck %health true damage. Though yeah, you can build QSS. Not the item I'd want to rush though.

FrickendaChicken5 votes

Fiora's weakness in lane is that she doesn't have the tools to out trade someone when she's in the defensive. Fiora's passive makes her have to put herself into a dangerous spot in order to get most if not all of them. The only real thing about her kit that is defensive is her W and being able to back off with your Q But the problem is that you can only stun one guy, stop one cc, and only hard cc, and her Q's cooldown is very long without hitting someone. Long cool down for what it does anyway. Her ult makes her have to go all in and makes her incredibly predictable. It's countered hard by just moving next to a wall, and making the vital perpendicular to the wall.

Fiora's weakness in teamfights is again having to go all in every single fight that he joins in on where she ults. Just dropping her when she ults someone is an insane problem of hers. She has the tools to deal with one person at a time, so you have to focus down either a tank and just DROP them, or kill someone who got way out of position, such as an assassin or adc. Either way you help in a fight.

"The Grand Duelist" is a play on her 1v1 oriented playstyle. She picks an enemy champ during fights and say "I want to fight you, let's have at it!" And generally, no one focuses the person focusing the tank, they're damage is usually wasted. But Fiora's able to drop tanks late game, and does so with the intent of helping her team stay into a fight longer and win the game.

The health% true damage is less effective the lower your health is, and all of her damage relies on an auto attack or auto attack effect. So build armor. When she isn't doing true damage she isn't doing much damage at all.

Sasogwa7 votes

{quoted}

Fiora's weakness in lane is that she doesn't have the tools to out trade someone when she's in the defensive. Fiora's passive makes her have to put herself into a dangerous spot in order to get most if not all of them. The only real thing about her kit that is defensive is her W and being able to back off with your Q But the problem is that you can only stun one guy, stop one cc, and only hard cc, and her Q's cooldown is very long without hitting someone. Long cool down for what it does anyway. Her ult makes her have to go all in and makes her incredibly predictable. It's countered hard by just moving next to a wall, and making the vital perpendicular to the wall.

Fiora's weakness in teamfights is again having to go all in every single fight that he joins in on where she ults. Just dropping her when she ults someone is an insane problem of hers. She has the tools to deal with one person at a time, so you have to focus down either a tank and just DROP them, or kill someone who got way out of position, such as an assassin or adc. Either way you help in a fight.

"The Grand Duelist" is a play on her 1v1 oriented playstyle. She picks an enemy champ during fights and say "I want to fight you, let's have at it!" And generally, no one focuses the person focusing the tank, they're damage is usually wasted. But Fiora's able to drop tanks late game, and does so with the intent of helping her team stay into a fight longer and win the game.

The health% true damage is less effective the lower your health is, and all of her damage relies on an auto attack or auto attack effect. So build armor. When she isn't doing true damage she isn't doing much damage at all.

She doesn't have the tools to out trade someone when she's in the defensive?

W..what?

She procs vital with lunge for a good burst, gains healing and a movespeed boost out of it, so you either have to commit hard to trade back (use gapcloser for instance) in which case she can just ripost and outtrade you hard. Or you get poked down out of lane. And it's not like ripost just blocks CC. It also gives 50% attack speed slow, which is more than max rank Nasus wither at last millisecond.

The health% true damage is less effective the lower your health is???

it's % MAX health true damage, it's independant of how low you are. And people don't focus tanks because they're tanky usually, so it takes longer to kill them. However if you somehow kill tanks fast, then nothing remains really to peel, you can just clean up.

Honestly, old Fiora felt better to play against. At least you could build against her, she fit her 'light fighter' archetype as well. %health true damage killed everything. Now, oh she has good outplay tools, good burst damage, strong mobility with her spammable Q, and great tank melting, sustain and can build rather tanky.

LittleBlast1 votes

Riposte doesnt slow attack speed.

Sasogwa7 votes

{quoted}

Riposte doesnt slow attack speed.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Fiora

"The first enemy champion struck also has their movement and attack speed slowed by 50% for 1.5 seconds"

Why would you not even check before making an assumption?

LittleBlast3 votes

Wait really? I have rank 4 mastery with fiora and i didnt even realise this!

Sorgklaan8 votes

{quoted} The thing is, when you play against Fiora, you don't win if you're good, you win if she's bad. She has the tools to deal with pretty much everything.

Applies to Yasuo as well.

Sire Hippington5 votes

not as much as for fiora, as he can't block cc+burst(unless it's a projectile), and his mobillity is more limited, makeing it harder for him to retreat once things go bad for him.

Slamurai Jack2 votes

{quoted}

The thing is, when you play against Fiora, you don't win if you're good, you win if she's bad. She has the tools to deal with pretty much everything.

Applies to Yasuo as well.

That's why Yasuo's winrate goes lower and lower the higher elo you go. Because he has no counterplay other than hope the person playing him sucks. And we all know that Bronze players are actually better than Diamond players but stuck in bronze because bad teams.

TheVishual7 votes

{quoted}

When I lane against her, I want to just dig my teeth into my arm. She dashes on you instantly and chunks you, then she's gone again before you can even react. According to riot, she was supposed to be a hypercarry, but she completely trashes me early on.

I realize she can be countered, but even when you completely counter her with Darius or something, she's so obnoxious to play against. The mix of damage, mobility, and sustain is just painful. Most of the time when I try to kill her early on, she just draintanks everything.

Not to mention she doesn't use mana. She has a mana bar, but it may as well not exist. It feels like she's dashing on top of my every time it's up, but her mana bar never goes under 80%

Fiora is broken... this is not new news. Why do you think she was played so much in worlds?

Nothing says counterplay like max health percentage true damage LOL. Hopefully riot reworks her passive and then I think she could be balanced.

BlackTh0ughtz2 votes

Lol Fioras mana problems are real. She does crush a lot of melee top laners pretty well though, but thats by design, she's pretty hard to use especially when you get out of lane

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