The reason why Chogath is broken and Tank meta won't end next season

Wukong Airlines··31 votes·4,648 views

Because all of a sudden you've decided to give 2 of his abilities "Health damage scaling". Chogath : I do bad? no problem I'll buy HP and resistance too, I become unkillable and STILL deal damage at the same time. and for all I know HP damage scaling has been the most toxic in this game, but no problem, lets too give the dude true damage on a point click spell, and all kinds of toxic CC as well, perma slow on his E, knockup AND silence in 1 kit. ????? All of you will be tellin me now "but is ADC meta.." no its not. it's because those toxic tanks that Riot promised WONT deal that much damage no more are the most dominant specially in the jungle which makes it easier for that tower dive thats why ADCs gets it easy to kill everyone while being unreachable.

Don't forget if you even reached that ADC by mistake you gon melt cause you know who the true assassins are Draven Twitch Xayah Tristana , but yes lets give Talon another 3 marks passive with a narrow W to make sure he wont kill you or another 1-2 just like he used to pre-rework, but it's K when Twitch cant 1shot your entire fkin team while almost being unseen on the map cause of that short Q stealth CD which lasts more than 9 Seconds.

Preseason --> S8 will bring more power for both Tanks and ADCs. infinite AD scaling or break that AS limit. infinite Health scaling with a MonkeyKing passive specially setup for you in the new rune system.

But sure most of you gon tell me "wait till it hits live" when it's all already been tested.

47 Comments

SpecterVonBaren14 votes

Complains about tank meta not ending in title then complains about ADC's dictating the current meta.

So what meta are we in then?

Melledoneus2 votes

Purgatory.

Spicy Rice2 votes

I'd argue that we are in the 9th circle of hell

One352 votes

Both. Tank are strong so ADCs become important, and ADCs are strong so tanks with peel and CC become important.

SSShutTheDuckUp1 votes

The worst one.

KoKoboto9 votes

Seems like mostly a problem with shit towers that any champion can tank tbh.

Also Cho'Gath is a juggernaut, warden hybrid now. Definitely not a tank and never really was a tank.

YumaS2Astral3 votes

{quoted}

Seems like mostly a problem with shit towers that any champion can tank tbh.

Also I think Cho'Gath is a juggernaut, warden hybrid now. Definitely not a tank and never really was a tank.

I think Cho'Gath has too much CC to be considered a tank, also he has always meant to be a tank anyway.

KoKoboto4 votes

No he doesn't have that much CC because his Q is unreliable as fuck. He is a Juggernaut 80% Warden 20%.

Melledoneus3 votes

Don't mean to be that guy, but Cho's Q is borderline impossible to miss with his new E... just saying...

Variks the Loyal1 votes

Have to get close enough to hit with E, first.

Righteous Glory and Flash have long CDs.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

Implying 90s is a long CD?

Variks the Loyal1 votes

Longer than some ults.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

Shorter than most's until level 16

KoKoboto1 votes

Yes. E is melee ability.

Done251 votes

{quoted}

Seems like mostly a problem with shit towers that any champion can tank tbh.

Also Cho'Gath is a juggernaut, warden hybrid now. Definitely not a tank and never really was a tank.

Why you be a lying lair? Cho is 100% tank. He has much more in common with Galio and Amumu than he does Garen and Darius, even with their true damage executions.

KoKoboto1 votes

Doesn't matter. You still compared him to Wardens so that shows he still is Wardenly. Next a characteristic of tanks is having CC that's more reliable, I'm picking Galio and Amumu for CC any day over Cho'Gath.

Cho does similar damage to Garen and Darius but is mostly a Warden.

He is Juggernaut Warden hybrid, more Juggernaut.

Done251 votes

{quoted}

Doesn't matter. You still compared him to Wardens so that shows he still is Wardenly. Next a characteristic of tanks is having CC that's more reliable, I'm picking Galio and Amumu for CC any day over Cho'Gath.

Cho does similar damage to Garen and Darius but is mostly a Warden.

He is Juggernaut Warden hybrid, more Juggernaut.

A Warden is a Tank subclass you dork. Cho is a tank. And Amumu is a Vanguard since he likes to initiate with Q->R.

Tanks have a heavy emphasis on AP for damage and come with lots of CC. Such as Amumu, Cho, Galio, Rammus (when he had a 1.0 ap ratio on his curl).

Juggernauts focus on AD with an empasis on killing their targets. Like Darius, Garen, and Sion. Darius and Sion both have hard CC, but it's basically melee range and Sion has to charge up to get it.

KoKoboto1 votes

Galio is a warden. Cho'Gath does not have the same level of crowd control as tanks but he has very strong stick potential, a characteristic of all juggernauts.

Cho doesn't have a lot of effectively and reliable CC.

You can have AP Juggernauts.

Sion is a tank.

SwiftKitten889 votes

it IS an adc meta.. but Chogath is another issue entirely... i dont mind the change to his E

but the ulti change is what COMPLETELY broke him.

cho is going to be an issue until they remove that stupid change. i would like to know who the hell thought that was a good idea... and i would like to know what they were on...

because i may need some of it soon...

It Hertz When IP3 votes

I didn't like the E change, but I agreed it was necessary; once you got Rylai's you basically got a permanent AoE slow.

His ult, though... I don't get. I honestly do not understand why the change was made. There wasn't anything wrong with it before.

Melledoneus5 votes

I just want to mention that Cho'gath's E does % max HP in an AoE, has a low cooldown, costs little to nothing of his resource bar, scales as the game goes on, slows, and is conditionless.

Yes. Cho'gath's E is a better version of Shen's Q. He is literally a better duelist than Shen in lane, when that is the one f*cking reason to actually play Shen over other tanks (pre-6, of course). Thanks Riot.

(And please, do mention something about 'the champs do different things!' Because I have a god damned essay to write for anybody who would dare use that argument here.)

SnakDatSmilesBak3 votes

The champs do different things!

Melledoneus1 votes

Correct. You pick Shen when you want a global counter-engage or when you want somebody who can counter Fiora diving your ADC.

You pick Cho'gath if you want to win.

Sorry, I'm on mobile, kind of not in the mood to write another essay atm.

Alex h87214 votes

A lot of shen's powerbudget is in stand united

Melledoneus1 votes

Funny how you say that, when Riot basically gutted the ability the patch Galio came out.

I'm not saying I don't agree with you, but usually an ability has to be very powerful if the rest of a champion's kit is lackluster because of it. Except Shen's ult shield is counter-intuitive (if you go for max shield, your ally most likely dies, if you try to ult in sooner when your ally starts taking heavy fire (when you SHOULD, by the way) the shield is pitiful and doesn't even match what supports like Karma or Lulu get on basic abilities with low cooldowns).

Not saying a global teleport isn't strong, but Riot basically destroyed the ability's accessibility (which hurts because Shen has little access to CDR), its power (which reduces the value of the ultimate immensely) and generally its reliability to save allies. Don't get me wrong, still my favorite champion by far, but I shouldn't feel like shit when I do really well but can't do anything about it because another champion does everything I do better and more.

Chogath is disgusting and the fact that Riot made his E an AoE Shen Q that requires 0 positioning or precision that also scales into the game and SLOWS BETTER IN EVERY WAY is just plain insulting. He's tankier, deals more damage, has more reliable abilities, less restrictions, has more CC, has more sustain, fucking hell the only two things that Cho doesn't have over Shen are mobility (which, let's be honest, item 3800 item 3152 fix that for him) and global mobility. I'm not even going to count Shen's W because you can't even control where the god damned zone is going to be without dragging the spirit anchor around like a disobedient dog on a leash.

I never liked playing against Cho'gath, I never liked his design, I always found playing against him annoying, and when one day he is gutted into non-existence as most champions who swoop into the meta are, I will actually be glad. Glad that we don't have to deal with the disgusting, uninteractive mess of balance that is Cho'gath.

But that's fine. I guess I'm just salty that I wanted the champion I play to have one day where he isn't underperforming as a tank and duelist rather than being a global support and nothing more while Riot caters to uninteractive, thoughtless play.

Yaskamasandwich1 votes

{quoted}

I just want to mention that Cho'gath's E does % max HP in an AoE, has a low cooldown, costs little to nothing of his resource bar, scales as the game goes on, slows, and is conditionless.

Yes. Cho'gath's E is a better version of Shen's Q. He is literally a better duelist than Shen in lane, when that is the one f*cking reason to actually play Shen over other tanks (pre-6, of course). Thanks Riot.

(And please, do mention something about 'the champs do different things!' Because I have a god damned essay to write for anybody who would dare use that argument here.)

I know how exactly you feel with Sion. When they gave Cho'gath an infinite hp scale THAT ALSO boosts his damage WHILE not gutting his base hit points and scaling to compensate. I called that he would replace Sion entirely and lo and behold now. There is absolutely no reason to pick Sion over Cho. Oh wait Sion has a global ult that charges into the enemy? Too bad it's impossible to hit because everyone can side step it, tanks block it, or dodge it, or even parry it. Cho's abilities not only hit harder but are more reliable right now. Why charge into the enemy team to die when you can just nom a squishy to death. The changes done to Cho just made him a juggernaut that replaces a lot of juggernauts, bruisers, hell even divers now with Righteous Glory.

Elkington VI4 votes

I would argue that %max hp true damage is the worst mechanic to deal with in this game.

xJLx MCHammer3 votes

That's also why ADC's are OP item 3137 item 3139 DAMAGE and they get out of any CC you manage to use on them item 3155 DAMAGE ANDDDDD RESISTANCE item 3046 Would you look at that! Damage and damage reduction

DoktorKaiser3 votes

Why do people keep throwing the tank meta around, how the hell is this a tank meta if most tanks are utter garbage and never played. The fact that only half a dozen tanks are playable speaks about their kit, not the tank stats which are in the gutter. I never died so fast while being full monster tank in the history of league, so please stop calling it tank meta and just call out the broken ones Maokai Rammus Sejuani JarvanIV Zac Chogath

BigBellBrute2 votes

{quoted}

Why do people keep throwing the tank meta around, how the hell is this a tank meta if most tanks are utter garbage and never played. The fact that only half a dozen tanks are playable speaks about their kit, not the tank stats which are in the gutter. I never died so fast while being full monster tank in the history of league, so please stop calling it tank meta and just call out the broken ones Maokai Rammus Sejuani JarvanIV Zac Chogath

It's an assassin meta. Here are the assassins.
Tristana Twitch KogMaw Xayah

Here are their toadies Janna Lulu Taric Rakan Soraka Sona

Everyone else is bait.

Poske1 votes

Or a disctraction

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

Which is pretty much half the roster rofl. it is a tank meta because why pick assassin jungler or bruiser top when you can pick a tank and do the same stuff better?

DoktorKaiser1 votes

6-10 champions is half the roster?? Ok, whatever. Try playing Volibear, Sion, Naut, Skarner, Leona, Alistar and get utterly fucked. Tank meta was earlier this season when I had 75% win rate on fucking Volibear because tank stats + colossus was really strong. Now, its the adc meta + censer supports + some broken tanks + lethality abusers + Riven&Fiora. Mages and no-damage tanks are shit besides competitive play, bruisers are also really bad.

T2theMan3 votes

it's an ADC meta, so yeah teh tanks need to be somewhat strong

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

Why would tanks need to be strong in an adc meta?

Curious Kat2 votes

Basically xD.

AFilthyCaitMain2 votes

Pretty sure press the attack doesnt give AD anymore

Variks the Loyal2 votes

Cho'gath is fine.

He's extremely slow and telegraphed. Yes, he's tanky. Yes, he deals a lot of damage. You know who else does that? Every single Juggernaut in the game.

Cho'gath gets to be tankier late because he's really squishy early, and has no innate defensive steroids like other Juggernauts have.

Just don't get close to him. CC him. Avoid his Q. Avoid his W. Stay out of Feast range.

GayFluffyUnicorn4 votes

And every single juggernaut in the game does not have hard CC, slows, silence and a nuke all in one kit.

Variks the Loyal1 votes

But we have one with a hard CC, slow, suppress, shield, speed steroid, attack speed steroid, and endless DPS scaling with total AD. Skarner

We have one with multiple stuns, shields, reliable healing, attack speed steroid, constant movement speed steroid, and AoE magic damage. Udyr

We have one with a long-range slow, true damage nuke, attack speed steroid, healing amp, and CC immunity. Olaf

We have one with AoE slow, displacement, speed steroid, max-HP based healing, AoE damage, and a nuke scaling with maximum HP. Volibear

Just naming a kit's strengths doesn't make it OP. Everything Cho'Gath does is telegraphed and there's no outplay potential. Anything he does can be dodged or avoided, and his combos have relatively large cooldowns. He has clear counters and counterbuilds, and ways to shut him down before he becomes the massive late-game threat.

GhastlyCake1 votes

Righteous Glory, 10k health, 1k true damage, an AOE knockup, 4 AA's that deal % max health AP, an AOE silence. Use a Rylias on your W, land Q, R and you insta win.

Done251 votes

{quoted}

Righteous Glory, 10k health, 1k true damage, an AOE knockup, 4 AA's that deal % max health AP, an AOE silence. Use a Rylias on your W, land Q, R and you insta win.

Pick Trundle. Press R on Cho'ath. Stand in front of him to stop RG. Win forever.

meowwow71 votes

actually they put a cap on that press the attack rune but it still hits hard

Tusutaki1 votes

I wouldnt say it's tank meta. More so that these few select champs are preventing everybody else from being viable that they just so happen to be tanks. Otherwise we would be seeing a lot more tank variety.

Winek Chan1 votes

Personally I'd remove the R health scaling and he'd be balanced enough.

(seriously, I need my full ap cho gath daily)

AidanWR1 votes

Uhhh, i've one-shot adcs with fighters and assassins. I main adc, and i can tell you that, while they do damage, they are still extremely squishy and will most definitely go down if you receive any form of hard cc with more than one person on you

LordGeovanni1 votes

Got to have a tank meta to end a tank meta.

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