Poll.
Personally I have no problem with a Duo/Solo queue and never did, as long as it is limited to at least one bracket difference (I.e. Gold with silver, or gold with plat.... none of the old bullshit of bronze with diamond)
jaymc11307 votesJust return Solo/Duo. Its still a busted and massively flawed system, but its LESS busted and LESS flawed than DQ.
Ranked and the matchmaking systems really need a complete reworking in general. Using an ELO style system in team game was never going to work. You can't distill a players skill set from W/L alone when its a team game, unlike in chess where every move a player makes directly affects whether they win or lose. As long as we have a ranking system that is based solely on W/L ratio it won't matter that much what type of queue we have, the ladder will never be accurate just like it never has been. I mean, the system works fine for the top .01% of players where people are mostly on similar footing in terms of abilities mechanically and game knowledge and communication wise. But it can't ever function for players who's skill sets are soooooo poorly measured and much further apart playing in the same games. So as long as we have to keep a busted, flawed, horrible system, we might as well go back to the style of queue that was at least slightly superior in terms of competitive integrity.
I mean, even if we revert to S/D or go to a pure solo, we still have the same problem with the ladder, that won't ever go away no matter what queue system we use. It'd be better to stop fucking around with the symptoms of the disease and start having Riot actually combat the CAUSE of the disease instead. But hey, I've been saying this same thing for 4+ years and gotten nowhere on the topic, so why on Earth would any one listen to me now?
Edit: Also, good to see you back in diamond again. Looks like you stopped messing around and spammed some eve games for freelo like you should have been doing this whole time. Grats.
MrWasjig1 votesWell it might help if you actually suggest an alternate Ranking system to go along with your desire for one. Perhaps the reason your desire has gone nowhere in 4+ years is because you've yet to suggest anything?
It's easy to say "The current systems sucks, it needs to be changed" (But due credit, you've given reasons as to why the current ranking system is inappropriate for a team game). Now what would you propose instead? Even a preliminary idea might help get people behind you. I'm curious already.
jaymc11303 votesWell it might help if you actually suggest an alternate Ranking system to go along with your desire for one. Perhaps the reason your desire has gone nowhere in 4+ years is because you've yet to suggest anything?
It's easy to say "The current systems sucks, it needs to be changed" (But due credit, you've given reasons as to why the current ranking system is inappropriate for a team game). Now what would you propose instead? Even a preliminary idea might help get people behind you. I'm curious already.
My original idea back toward the end of season 2 was Champion Mastery. And then use the end game grade to influence how much LP and MMR was gained or lost. Got an S+ in a loss? No worries, no -15 LP for you, only -3. Got a D+ in a win? No free boosting, earn your own way, only +6 LP instead of 22.
This concept has obvious flaws and does nothing to address the real core issue but it would have alleviate some of the problem and reward consistently good play better than the current system as well as punish consistently poor play better. But it really doesn't do enough of the right things and grade rating is subject to various factors like how popular a champion is, so popular champions would be more difficult to climb with. This was a good initial thought and a step in the right direction. I'd have been happier if the WHOLE system was implemented instead of just half of it, but I don't work at Riot and I don't get to make those decisions, and, to be honest, I'm still surprised to this day that my concept ever saw the light of day at all.
After some seasons to consider the problem more completely I have arrived at the conclusion that we need a sabermetric style system to rate the value of each players individual skill set when compared to the average player. Baseball has Wins Above Replacement player for use as a catchall sabermetric rating of a players value and worth to his team. This rating takes into account every single action a player has ever taken in his entire career and compares it relative to every other ball player in the history of the game. It can tell you the value of a hitters 6th inning double with men on first and second and 2 outs with a 2 ball 2 strike count. The system can actually give you a VALUE for that singular action in terms of its impact on that game and it improved that players chance of his team winning by an amount that is expressed as a run differential (should both runners on base score then the batter automatically contributed 2 runs to his teams total. And his double ends with him on second base, or in scoring position, which is worth a fractional amount, say, .2 runs. So he contributed 2.2 runs with that single action) when compared to an average result for an average player (an out of some sort as opposed to a hit). The run differential values are then totaled up for every action over the course of a season and input into a formula that compares that run production to the run production of an average player and outputs an answer in the form of wins that can be directly attributed to that player's actions. An average ball player contributes a 0 wins above replacement player rating to his team. Meaning any other average player would have performed as well as said player. A positive number for a player's WAR means they contributed more to their team than the average player would have and thus, they are more valuable as a player. This is the kind of system Leauge needs to function in conjunction with the ELO system in order to have a truly accurate and representative ladder system. The formula would need to be modified to take into account the skill range a player is playing in, as performance against diamond competition is not equal to silver competition, but it should be fairly simple to adjust the formula with respect to each tier. The stats are all already being tracked. Your match history when viewed on the web shows them all. Damage dealt, damage taken, where you died, when you died there, what objectives were taken by whom and at what time, how much farm a player acquired, how much vision a player provided and denied, etc. So we know these stats are already accounted for, they simply aren't USED for anything. Its time to USE them for something.
I could design the formula, easy peasy, but I'd need complete access to the data from every game of league ever played for the last 6 seasons to be able to determine how much each action at each time contributed to the team winning or losing a match. Riot certainly won't give me this data, so the best I can do is repeat this that I have said here, for about the hundredth time in last 2 years, and hope some one at Riot takes some initiative like they did when they ran with my champion mastery concept.
This would give the ranking system much greater accuracy and detail, allowing players to more quickly attain accurate rankings and prevent things like boosting with a premade group of players as well as staying in low elo on a smurf to stomp newer less talented players. It would also provide better matchmaking as the skillsets of players are more readily accounted for, decreasing the high level of variance that is inherent with an ELO style system in a team game. So not only are players ranked more appropriately and more quickly, but the quality of the matches would improve as well as pairings take into account more information and more closely pair opponents.
MrWasjig1 votesApologies but you mostly lost me on the Baseball comparison (guess I should have drawn attention to my region tag, EUW). But I managed to extract the general concept from everything, and kudos for such an extensive proposal I appreciate it! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs] Okay then let's run this one down. (My responses are condensed a lot, there's plenty to take in and bound to be stuff I look over when writing but I do my best)
I very much like your initial proposal, the "Champion Mastery as a ranking system". The general premise of good play being rewarded with better gains is an intriguing one, but as you said yourself it would certainly be difficult to implement fairly. But I like the idea nonetheless.
The extensive system you've proposed regarding actions contributing to an overall total "worth" of a player I can see being a very interesting one indeed. However I can once again see problems arising from it that I didn't see mentioned, such as "stat padding". This is a hypothetical problem currently but worth mentioning, if someone knows how this system works it could be easy to game it by farming certain stats. Let's say killing minions add to the aforementioned total worth of the player in the ranking system, well that could result in entire games being dragged out for far longer than necessary because people want to endlessly farm minions to increase their gains on the ladder. And other similar scenario of people padding their stats for better gains in Rank. I can admit that might not hold water currently but it's just an example of potential problems with the system.
I truly think that if the guys at Riot sat down and had a good long talk about the ranking system (not the queue system, remember), then I reckon they could come up with something far more befitting of a team based game. As it stands however I still think the ELO system of old (around Season 2 I believe it was), was the best system to have been used. It's used to great effect in DOTA2. Overwatch certainly has one of the more compelling Ranking systems out there currently, being a combination of a numbers based ELO system, along with Ranks such as Bronze, Silver, Gold etc. similar to LoL's current system. If you ask me Overwatch has one of the better ranking systems currently, minus the whole, you can't fall in rank thing. So if you're Gold, you'll stay Gold even if the ELO falls beneath that threshold.
jaymc11301 votesApologies but you mostly lost me on the Baseball comparison (guess I should have drawn attention to my region tag, EUW). But I managed to extract the general concept from everything, and kudos for such an extensive proposal I appreciate it! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs] Okay then let's run this one down. (My responses are condensed a lot, there's plenty to take in and bound to be stuff I look over when writing but I do my best)
I very much like your initial proposal, the "Champion Mastery as a ranking system". The general premise of good play being rewarded with better gains is an intriguing one, but as you said yourself it would certainly be difficult to implement fairly. But I like the idea nonetheless.
The extensive system you've proposed regarding actions contributing to an overall total "worth" of a player I can see being a very interesting one indeed. However I can once again see problems arising from it that I didn't see mentioned, such as "stat padding". This is a hypothetical problem currently but worth mentioning, if someone knows how this system works it could be easy to game it by farming certain stats. Let's say killing minions add to the aforementioned total worth of the player in the ranking system, well that could result in entire games being dragged out for far longer than necessary because people want to endlessly farm minions to increase their gains on the ladder. And other similar scenario of people padding their stats for better gains in Rank. I can admit that might not hold water currently but it's just an example of potential problems with the system.
This was absolutely one of the flaws with Champion Mastery and I largely chalk Riot only half implementing my proposal due to this specific problem of players choosing to play selfishly to farm stats for superior LP totals.
Which is exactly why I wound up considering WAR as an alternative. Not only would it be important to take into account what stats are acquired, but when, where, why, and how they are acquired to. If League were ever to get a quality WAR style system to assist in ranking and matching players then the system should naturally account for WHEN players decided to do WHAT and WHERE they did it. Choosing to afk farm on the opposite side of the map from your team to pad your stats would clearly show as a detrimental action in this style of system as opposed to a beneficial one. WAR takes into account the circumstances of the game for ever action taken during the game. A WAR style system for League should be able to do the same with relative ease. My guess right now, without any numbers to judge on, pure past experience with statistical analysis and manipulation leads me to believe that positioning relative to your teammates relative to the action that happens on the map will be vitally important and heavily weighted. Being around to take baron with the team is worth a lot more value to your average win than split pushing a wave uncontested or acquiring an extra kill or two. Why? Well this simultaneously does a few things that are more beneficial to the team. It helps prevent the enemy from contesting, it allows your team to take it faster, and it counts as an objective you were present to assist with. The value of then having the baron probably also translates into real value off its expected value as the team groups to take down towers and push to win. Meanwhile splitting off to solo farm bot lane with your TP down for another 2 minutes creates a situation where your team is at risk to have baron contested and possibly lose the game due to your absence. Most selfish play scenarios work out this way with a WAR styled system, it detects you were taking an action, but not the CORRECT or BEST possible action at the time given the situation and circumstances and you aren't rewarded for playing improperly, but punished for that selfishness.
I truly think that if the guys at Riot sat down and had a good long talk about the ranking system (not the queue system, remember), then I reckon they could come up with something far more befitting of a team based game.
If they had done this before implementing DQ, then DQ would have worked out just fine and wouldn't have caused a whole slew of problems. The issue, as is usual with Riot, is that they always put the cart before the horse.
As it stands however I still think the ELO system of old (around Season 2 I believe it was), was the best system to have been used.
Its actually the system we are STILL using. Its just hidden now by the false cover sheet that is the "League System" which actually does literally nothing.
's used to great effect in DOTA2. Overwatch certainly has one of the more compelling Ranking systems out there currently, being a combination of a numbers based ELO system, along with Ranks such as Bronze, Silver, Gold etc. similar to LoL's current system. If you ask me Overwatch has one of the better ranking systems currently, minus the whole, you can't fall in rank thing. So if you're Gold, you'll stay Gold even if the ELO falls beneath that threshold.
The thing is both of those games use a MODIFIED elo system to take into account the fact that players are playing on teams and its not individual on individual competition that ELO was designed for. Riot chose NOT to modify the basic ELO format to include any other factors which is why League has this unique problem.
MrWasjig1 votesWell it's good to hear you've accounted for problem or abuse cases with the proposed WAR system. I don't have anything more to say on that, it's pretty solid in theory and until something is actually developed I'd say that's the best we'll get.
If they had done this before implementing DQ, then DQ would have worked out just fine and wouldn't have caused a whole slew of problems. The issue, as is usual with Riot, is that they always put the cart before the horse.
Truer words have never been spoken about this company. Ontop of that I think they were also trying, as quick as possible to sucker in as many casual gamer shit-heads as they could (sorry, personal vitriol). Even further was the problem that DQ presented to competitive integrity (along with the casual gamer shit-heads it suckered in). It was very obviously an attempt to sucker in more and more of the casual audience given it made Ranked more accessible, combined with more obvious advertising in other media such as Youtube video banner ads for example, such advertising we've not seen from Riot before. (which in itself raises a lot of questions regarding potential insecurity they may have with their product but, another time.)
Its actually the system we are STILL using. Its just hidden now by the false cover sheet that is the "League System" which actually does literally nothing.
Yes of course it's easy to forget that. It sorta is, because the hidden rating isn't the thing that says "You're at this skill level", it's the League attached to it (Gold, Plat etc.), despite the fact it can be abused. But if someone is incorrectly placed (ignoring boosting), people naturally drop or climb to where they're supposed to be anyway. So I think it's safe to say we're kinda not using that ELO system anymore, not overtly anyway.
The thing is both of those games use a MODIFIED elo system to take into account the fact that players are playing on teams and its not individual on individual competition that ELO was designed for. Riot chose NOT to modify the basic ELO format to include any other factors which is why League has this unique problem.
Indeed that is correct, exactly the reason I cited them as examples of other games that use a similar ranking system. Heck, DOTA2's MMR/ELO system is something people just suggested Riot shoulda done to fix DynoQ (which of course they stubbornly refused to do, no fucking surprise), split the ratings between a Solo and a Team rating. Simple. It works perfectly fine for DOTA, and it can work perfectly fine for LoL given they have almost identical formats. No an ELO system still isn't the best solution even if it is modified to operate around a team vs team format, but it is the most adequate until something else is used and has proved adequate for a long time. I'm not saying I don't want a better system, but currently we don't even have what could be considered a decent one (the current League system nonsense).
Unironic SJW1 votesWe haven't fully worked out the kinks in traditional sports with advanced metrics and this is with humans watching the games. Sabremetrics in a game like League is NOT happening, at least not for the ranked ladder. Maybe you could create a PER/WS/WAR/etc metric for pro play but that's it.
jaymc11301 votesWe haven't fully worked out the kinks in traditional sports with advanced metrics and this is with humans watching the games. Sabremetrics in a game like League is NOT happening, at least not for the ranked ladder. Maybe you could create a PER/WS/WAR/etc metric for pro play but that's it.
Sabermetrics has been the primary means of evaluating MLB players for more than 3 decades. There are no kinks. Advanced analytics have been used for the nba for more than the last 2 decades. Player efficiency rating and wins above replacement aren't just solid measurements of a players value and contributions to his team, these are now, and have been for decades, the most complete and accurate method of devining a players worth as an individual with respect to his team. You could not be more wrong with your assertion here. This stuff is scientifically proven to be the most superior method available of rating individuals for team sports and every contract signed in the last 30 years uses advanced analytics to assure fair compensation for performance.
It's time league has the same.
Could not care5 votesTrue solo, definitely. It sucked balls to fight a premade bot as 2 solos even before the Dyn Q wagon hit.
WatchDogs Legion4 votesAs long as its better than this BS Dynamic que and Auto-Fill crap
Dominick Destine9 votes[{quoted}](name=C9 Rinnegan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ELcVMlWb,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-09-20T00:48:31.536+0000)
As long as its better than this BS Dynamic que and Auto-Fill crap
Of course.
Dynamic queue was the worst system that Riot ever introduced.
U R Good At Game1 votes[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ELcVMlWb,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-09-20T01:28:16.665+0000)
Of course.
Dynamic queue was the worst system that Riot ever introduced.
Tbh they just need to let people trio-queue. If you went back to solo/duo riot would get bombarded with bombs of fury when 90% of the time, players in dynamic queue don't want to quad/penta queue. They just to want to play with 2 other friends at most.
jaymc11305 votes[{quoted}](name=C9 FlamezZ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ELcVMlWb,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-09-20T06:20:10.032+0000)
Tbh they just need to let people trio-queue. If you went back to solo/duo riot would get bombarded with bombs of fury when 90% of the time, players in dynamic queue don't want to quad/penta queue. They just to want to play with 2 other friends at most.
Are you even remotely aware of the statistics for win rates for trios?
Are you even aware that Trios have by far the highest win rate and are the biggest problem in terms of competitive integrity in high level play and this was why diamond and up has already been limited to solo/duo for about a month now?
Trio queue was blatantly op. 60-65% win rates for trios on AVERAGE in diamond and up.
U R Good At Game2 votesI'm just telling you right now, riot is almost 90% accuracy not going to jump from dynamic to solo/duo. Diamond+ already doesn't have dynamic queue. The target audience for dynamic is bronze to low gold which in majority enjoy the ability to queue with friends. Leaving only high gold and plat as outliers.
60% makes sense.. Your playing with people that you know how they play, people that won't be on tilt, etc. Your basically saying "trios play more as a team so get rid of em". Of course a solo que player and a duoQ player will have lower win rates. they have 3-4 randoms that they have to carry where trio's have 2. It's called logic.
If 3 people play like a team, you win more then 1 or 2 people playing like a team. Hmmmmmm, ya wouldn't say...
jaymc11303 votes[{quoted}](name=C9 FlamezZ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ELcVMlWb,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-20T06:53:09.023+0000)
I'm just telling you right now, riot is almost 90% accuracy not going to jump from dynamic to solo/duo. Diamond+ already doesn't have dynamic queue. The target audience for dynamic is bronze to low gold which in majority enjoy the ability to queue with friends. Leaving only high gold and plat as outliers.
60% makes sense.. Your playing with people that you know how they play, people that won't be on tilt, etc. Your basically saying "trios play more as a team so get rid of em". Of course a solo que player and a duoQ player will have lower win rates. they have 3-4 randoms that they have to carry where trio's have 2. It's called logic.
If 3 people play like a team, you win more then 1 or 2 people playing like a team. Hmmmmmm, ya wouldn't say...
Its like you don't even attempt to understand the point. Lol.
I'm pretty sure at this point you are just trolling, but w/e I'll take the bait.
The target audience for DQ is irrelevant when it comes to competitive integrity. Widening the skill gap to 1000 MMR for players who are allowed to play together is, has been, and always will be, a failure to maintain competitive integrity. Allowing a bronze, silver, and gold to all party up is a failure of competitive integrity in the same sense that allowing a silver to queue up with a gold and a plat. The specific ranges of these players doesn't matter, the range between lowest and highest member of a team does. Games have been proven to be closer and more competitive the closer all players are to the median for all players in a match with the most competitive games occurring for teams that have players 100 MMR or less apart for the highest and lowest rated members of a team. This usually means the opposing team has a similar discrepancy. These games are fairly and accurately paired and the results of these games are pretty valid (there are ways to increase their validity, but thats not whats being discussed here). By contrast the most volatile games, the least competitive matches, are when players on a team are 300 or more MMR apart from each other, as this creates WIDE skill gaps between various opponents. These games come down to which of the most influential roles had the biggest discrepancy and the team with the biggest advantage from the most influential role wins 90% of the time. You can even find this evidence for yourself by tracking your next 100 or so games and finding the MMR difference between each player on each team and accounting for how wide the skill gaps are with respect to positional influence on games (Jungler>Mid>ADC>Top>Sup). These games LACK competitive integrity as both teams do not have a fair chance to win and they aren't playing on a level playing field. Again, the point on the ladder at which this occurs is irrelevant, it does not matter in the slightest. It can happen in challenger tier and it can happen in bronze tier.
Catering to the whims of the majority hurts EVERYONE equally.
As for the Trio win rates, yes, of fucking course players who play together often and have good chemistry will play better as a unit. This is INHERENTLY unfair when they play against teams of players who do NOT have a similar premade.
I mentioned the 60-65% average win rates for Trios in diamond and up this season. Do you have any idea what Trio win rates were vs Duos+3 solos and 5 solos? The most common pairings that occurred? 70%. For about 5 months Trios were winning the overwhelming majority of the time vs solo players and losing to teams of 4 and 5. It is inherently unfair to allow selective coordination that isn't available to every player every game, particularly in high level play. You can't have competitive integrity when you allow one team to consistently have an advantage over the majority of the playerbase (solos/duos). Especially when that advantage is overwhelming. And once again, its not a matter of where this happens on the ladder, i use diamond and up stats because those are easily tracked and well documented for this season, but even lower level play was affected by this. If you want competitive integrity you have to have a level, fair, playing field for all players. The ONLY way to do this is to LIMIT the number of players allowed in a party, you can NEVER improve the fairness of the playing field by upping the number of allowed players in a party unless you restrict the party minimum to 5 players. This is why team 5s and S/D queue are the modes with the most competitive integrity, and in a sport competitive integrity is all important or else the competition is meaningless.
Competitive integrity cannot exist at one level of play and then not exist at all at other levels of play. It simply doesn't work that way. MLB rules enforce competitive integrity for Major League Ballplayers. Slightly modified rules designed to facilitate less skilled athletes are in place for collegiate play. And even more modified for even less skilled athletes at the high school level. So there is some precedent that tweaked rule sets can work to provide competitive integrity at different levels of play. But it can only happen ONE way. The effect trickles down from the highest levels of play. The highest level sets the standard, not the lowest. DQ did this in reverse, which is precisely why we had so many problems this season. Riot tried to change things starting from the bottom up instead of the top down. This despite being told how badly and in what EXACT ways it would fail back in December of last year by players like myself. The last thing to consider here is what happens when players figure out how to abuse the system next season? Players will STILL be able to boost players into mid diamond using DQ by playing on plat 1 smurfs allowing players to reach diamond 3 as the maximum boost point using a group of boosters. So there STILL won't be any competitive integrity at the top of the ladder and this effect will STILL trickle down the ladder next season with everyone choosing to smurf instead of play with a grab bag of randomness. The ONLY way to prevent players from doing things like this that usurp competitive integrity is to enforce Solo/Duo for the entire ladder. Plain and simple mate. There are no two ways about it.
U R Good At Game1 votesA bronze, silver, gold cant queue together. If your saying each elo needs to only play within it's "rank", truth be told the skill gap between bronze and gold V is very low. Most of time the inhibiting factor between a bronze being silver or a silver being gold is something like tilting, attitude, misunderstand of 1 mechanic, etc. It honestly isn't that big. You don't just win your silver or gold promos and suddenly turn into a different player. That's not how it works.
Your point about MMR range is more a problem with riots matchmaking code, not dynamic queue. Sure dynamic code has the faulty code but if the code were to function properly in matchmaking these gaps wouldn't occur. It is more likely that will finetune the mmr matchmaking system then overhauling dynamic queue.
About skill gaps on influential roles the same could be said about allowing bronzes/silvers with 300+ games be able to play with fresh level 30s. Even though he is classified as bronze, someone with 300 games is most likely going to cream someone with 10 ranked games played. Again though, this is a problem with the matchmaking code of dynamicQ not dynamicQ as a system.
That is logic. Hmmmm a team of 3 loses to a team of 4 and 5 but beats a team of 2 and 1.,,,, Do you even read what you write? This is available to everyone, anyone can make a team of 3/4/5. Called hit that invite button. If you mean after the match has been found then AGAIN, your problem isn't with dynamicQ. It is with the communication in the base game of LoL. Add a voice server to LoL and you basically have an average dynamicQ every game. Your solution shouldn't be to get rid of a feature because other players don't have the coordination and communications. You need to think, hmm how can we give players the communication of those in Dynamic Q.
SoloQ wasn't competetive at all in Low Elo. You mean League of Let That One Guy Carry? Ranked 5's are competetive because each player knows each other. They play with each other. They practice with each other. It is a TEAM VS TEAM environement. Solo/DuoQ will always be a "let that one guy carry" environment in low elo, no matter how you wanna twist it. Let's not forget the infamous "were doing so you have to give us bot or feed". At least in dynamic queue I can play with a "team". Maybe don't be anti-social. Hmm, I see a 3 or 4m dynamic queue maybe I should play nice and see if I could get an invite to their voice comms. If you wanna be anti-social and play solo with a 4m against a 5m that is on you lol. It could be 5 v 5 but you made the choice to make it 4v5.
You say higher elo sets the standard. Your point should be fixed now... Challengers cant even duo Q, Diamonds can only solo/duo. Anything lower is dynamic Q. Challenger being MLB, Diamond Being College and Low elo being high school...... You just contradicted yourself.
Vistha Kai3 votesU R Good At Game1 votesMMR only isn't accurate past 300 games. If you suck dick for a whole season of LoL, get some coaching and genuinely improve, you can climb elo but have your mmr be shit for another 2 seasons even if you climb from say bronze 3 to gold 4, it will still have your mmr around silver 5 if you were bronze 5 for the entire last season which isn't accurate at all.
Exactly, problem with the coding, not the Q
The point still stands lol. A bronze or silver with 300 games will beat a bronze/silver with 10 placement games.
5's in dynamic Queue only exist because SoloQ elitist think that your "SoloQ" rank should be a higher value then your 5's rank. Especially in bronze - plat. You can be diamond 2 on a team but if your silver in soloQ your still trash. Good logic. That thought is exactly why 4 and 5m teams won't ranked 5's. Why play ranked 5's when people don't care about that rank???? You created your own problem on that one. And yes... it's still logic. A team of 3 will beat a team of 1 and 2...... A trio queue should beat a solo and/or duo queue. It's logic. What you can do to prevent that is not be anti-social and get yourself invite to groups. It's not hard. Idk about that statistic either. I would need official api proof because me and my friends all have our lowest winrate in trio's and highest in duo.
SoloQ better for team oriented gameplay? XDXDXDXD. You mean League of HyperCarry? LOL. If you have ever played in a single tournament, dynamic queue is 10x closers to team oriented play then League of HyperCarry.
You play 5's, dyna quads, dyna trios and you are playing on a team. You communicate with each other, ward for each other, help each other, tips for each other, a overall healthy game experience. You play soloQ and basically ahve to mute everyone at the start of the game and spam Yasuo/Zed/Riven/Fiora until your in plat.
SoloQ is and never will be team oriented. It is how hard hard you can carry teams of different weights. That is why alot of diamond SoloQ specialists can't get on a good 5's team. Because they are so used to the SoloQ mentality that to play on an actual team against another actual team is a COMPLETELY different playstyle. It becomes League of Legends and not League of Carry.
The amount of boosters in dynamic queue compared to players is astronomically low so that point is irrelevant as fuck. They won't get rid of dynamic Q to cater to such a minority of players. The best thing they will do is put plat into solo/duo queue. Too many people in bronze to gold like it way to much. Seeing how that is over 50% of their player base, they win.
Vistha Kai3 votesU R Good At Game1 votesyeah, no lol.
Does coding not govern the queue? Either way-silver 3+ is the same thing as gold. You dont hit gold and get magical skills. Again queing with a gold 1 is an extreme minority. Such a minority that using it as an example is just a futile attempt to bitch at the system.
Again, your using minority examples. If you can't accept that in most cases a player with hundreds of games more than another will typically be better your in denial.
Hey retard, people won't play 5's in dynamic if ranked 5's mattered. Until you SoloQ elitists get off your high horse, premades of 4+ will be in the queue. It's really that simple. Why would my team of 4/5 play in ranked 5's if we can just boost our SoloQ elo and look good? We wouldnt. there is no reason to.
Ha, you admit to league of carry. welp your pretty much rip here. Carrying isn't teamplay bud. Carrying is doing everything by yourself and being a selfish player in order to win then flaming at your team if they challenge you or your not as good of a carry as you think. "holding hands". lol. Funny cas that is exactly what a team does. So you just admitted soloQ wasn't teamplay, twice. Rest in peace m8.
jaymc11303 votes[{quoted}](name=C9 FlamezZ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ELcVMlWb,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-20T20:25:30.519+0000)
yeah, no lol.
Does coding not govern the queue? Either way-silver 3+ is the same thing as gold. You dont hit gold and get magical skills. Again queing with a gold 1 is an extreme minority. Such a minority that using it as an example is just a futile attempt to bitch at the system.
Again, your using minority examples. If you can't accept that in most cases a player with hundreds of games more than another will typically be better your in denial.
Hey retard, people won't play 5's in dynamic if ranked 5's mattered. Until you SoloQ elitists get off your high horse, premades of 4+ will be in the queue. It's really that simple. Why would my team of 4/5 play in ranked 5's if we can just boost our SoloQ elo and look good? We wouldnt. there is no reason to.
Ha, you admit to league of carry. welp your pretty much rip here. Carrying isn't teamplay bud. Carrying is doing everything by yourself and being a selfish player in order to win then flaming at your team if they challenge you or your not as good of a carry as you think. "holding hands". lol. Funny cas that is exactly what a team does. So you just admitted soloQ wasn't teamplay, twice. Rest in peace m8.
Your troll is still strong mate.
Xonra2 votesExactly this. 4 and 5 man queues don't mean dick in Dynamic Queue. It is the trios that are the most frustrating part of the whole thing.
Vistha Kai2 votesUnless you're the solo in a team with a 4-man premade.
Then it can get ugly realy fast.
Erockandroll4 votes[{quoted}](name=C9 Rinnegan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ELcVMlWb,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-09-20T00:48:31.536+0000)
As long as its better than this BS Dynamic que and Auto-Fill crap
Auto-fill is kinda going to be a problem, regardless of whether you have premades or 5 solos. Simply as a result of the dynamic selection.
Unless you think we should back peddle completely. Was pick order better than the current system?
WatchDogs Legion7 votesAuto-fill is kinda going to be a problem, regardless of whether you have premades or 5 solos. Simply as a result of the dynamic selection.
Unless you think we should back peddle completely. Was pick order better than the current system?
What Riot needed to do back then was, just add the role selection so people can start getting the role they prefer to play so there wouldn't be babies who cry or fight over role.
But instead they also added the Dynamic que shit which was shit for Solo players
jaymc11306 votes[{quoted}](name=C9 Rinnegan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ELcVMlWb,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2016-09-20T02:03:35.135+0000)
What Riot needed to do back then was, just add the role selection so people can start getting the role they prefer to play so there wouldn't be babies who cry or fight over role.
But instead they also added the Dynamic que shit which was shit for Solo players
The entire reason we had trouble this season is because Riot catered to low level elo terrorist who would hold teams hostage for a particular role instead of working together in lobby like they should have for the best interest of the team.
This shit almost never, and i literally mean NEVER, happened in diamond level play in previous seasons. The populations of players wasn't high, so you tended to know some of the others in your games, but also players who reached this level WANTED to work with the team AS SOON AS THEY WERE GIVEN A TEAM which is kind of important in a TEAM game. The whole reason players like myself reached high diamond in several seasons past was because we had the ability to communicate in lobby to get everyone on optimal roles and champions to give us the best chance to win.
This whole busted season happened because Riot catered to silver players who refuse to participate as teammates in the first place in a team game so Riot went and implemented a system to force bad players acting in stupid fashions to stop acting in one stupid fashion.
Pick order was never a problem, and it was by far a superior system. I can't even tell you how much many in the high level community hate it because being locked into top lane or mid lane as first pick is a fucking death sentence and no one wants to swap because Riot gave everyone the means to act in selfish manners by implementing new champ select.
Its really sad that a system designed with the sole intention of improving teamwork between teammates has had the complete opposite effect. DQ no longer requires players to learn to be good teammates to rise in ranking, so there are many players who lack basic fundamental play aspects ruining games in elo's they never belonged at in the first place.
Without Riot catering to idiots with things like new champ select we wouldn't have these kinds of issues that affect 100% of the playerbase in a negative fashion.
JVP151 votesI have to say though, Silver and Bronze is about half of League's playerbase so honestly, Riot would be a fool to outright ignore them. When skill varies so much in a game, there is no way to cater to everyone with any major change to the core game.
jaymc11306 votesI have to say though, Silver and Bronze is about half of League's playerbase so honestly, Riot would be a fool to outright ignore them. When skill varies so much in a game, there is no way to cater to everyone with any major change to the core game.
You cannot cater to the casual playerbase when whats at stake is competitive integrity in a game that is trying to become a legitimate sport. You can't have a legitimate sport without having competitive integrity. A game without competitive integrity that is based around competition quickly becomes stale and boring to play. Players won't play games that are stale and boring as well as frustrating.
Its like applying little league rules to the MLB, only 6 inning games, 10 run mercy rule, pitchers only allowed to pitch 3 innings. It would completely rob the sport of the thing that makes it compelling to watch and play. Little leaguers don't play hoping they can one day make it to the Little League hall of fame... there is no such thing. They play little league to acquire the basic fundamentals required to play at the next level of competition, and so on up through pony, highschool and select, college, A ball, AA ball, AAA ball, and eventually the MLB.
If we forced everyone playing baseball to play by little league rules fans would stop watching pro ball, pro ball players would quit, college and highschool athletes would turn to other sports, and the sport of baseball would die out completely. Because the competitive integrity and spirit of the game was removed.
We have seen exactly this happen this season as queue times growing 20% or so in every game mode (minimum) to more than 500% in some game modes can only mean one thing: players are quitting League of Legends because Riot killed what tiny teeny amount of competitive integrity this game had 10 months back. If players weren't choosing to stop playing League then queue times would have gotten even shorter this season for things like blind pick. Last season I never once waited a full minute to get into a blind pick game, no matter the account, not matter its MMR, not matter its level. I've waited 20 minutes on a level 18 account with 2000 MMR this season just to get paired. Granted thats an extreme scenario, but it NEVER happend in the past. I haven't once this entire season queued up for blind pick and gotten into a match in LESS than a minute either. It always takes me about 1:20, minimum. That's a huge portion of the playerbase from past seasons that has chosen to stop playing this game because it lacks competitive integrity and competitive integrity is a fundamental requirement for an enjoyable sport.
U R Good At Game1 votesthen just remove dynamic for diamond+.......... ez pz.
Also, I would rather queue times be 5m+ then losing a game because mid or feed is the most OP mechanic in the game. Your logic on that is flawed. Wait 5m to get a good game of people playing roles they want or wait 1m to play a game where everyone fights over roles, gets put in roles they feed or troll because of roles for THIRTY+ MINUTES.
Your real life example doesn't work either because random matchmaking != sports or e-sports. You know what would also kill baseball? having a new team every game with people of all ages who at the end of the day couldn't care less about each other. Having players throw baseball games, throw tantrums and straight walk off the field. Having every team in MLB consist of random players that have never seen or played with each other before. This is LoL not MLB. If your argument to this is play 5's, I could say the same thing about your argument now couldn't I?
jaymc11304 votes[{quoted}](name=C9 FlamezZ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ELcVMlWb,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-20T06:17:46.435+0000)
then just remove dynamic for diamond+.......... ez pz.
Also, I would rather queue times be 5m+ then losing a game because mid or feed is the most OP mechanic in the game. Your logic on that is flawed. Wait 5m to get a good game of people playing roles they want or wait 1m to play a game where everyone fights over roles, gets put in roles they feed or troll because of roles for THIRTY+ MINUTES.
You do realize you completely missed the point here... Good players DON'T take those kinds of actions in lobby. The system, as it was previously designed, REWARDED teamwork starting in the lobby and heavily punished selfish play. This being a team game team oriented playstyles tend to be more successful than selfish playstyles. Selfish players who cause problems were typically kept much lower on the ladder because teamwork was the primary skill measured under the old system, in fact it was pretty much incapable of measuring any of a player's other skills. No one in my elo fought over roles, that's something selfish, unskilled players do. Its something they will do regardless of what queue system we use, I still see it happen when I play on smurfs every day. Some random gold scrub will try to hold a lobby hostage and get his primary role so he won't have to play his secondary. The new lobby A) did nothing to solve that problem, it still happens to me as often as it did in the past, and B) brought lower elo problems into higher levels of play sacrificing what little competitive integrity happened to have existed prior to that.
The best scenario is one in which 5 players get matched up and starting from the second they get into the lobby they work together, as a team, as a unit, to put everyone in an optimal position for success. The addition of DQ removed this skill as a requirement to reach high level play, and its the single most fundamental skill a player needs to possess. Its impossible to have competitive integrity in a game where players are encouraged to eschew playing (or even LEARNING to play) like a team in a team game.
Your real life example doesn't work either because random matchmaking != sports or e-sports. You know what would also kill baseball? having a new team every game with people of all ages who at the end of the day couldn't care less about each other. Having players throw baseball games, throw tantrums and straight walk off the field. Having every team in MLB consist of random players that have never seen or played with each other before. This is LoL not MLB. If your argument to this is play 5's, I could say the same thing about your argument now couldn't I?
You realize ALL these things happened in baseball... Right? In WW2 15 year old kids were playing with 45 year olds. Any real athletes were drafted pretty quickly. Baseball as an enterprise made zilch for more than half a decade and had a nonexistent fanbase.
Players DID throw baseball games. In the World Series no less. Ever heard of the Black Sox Scandal? It took a decade for the sport to recover and gain any sort of respectability and pretty shortly afterward WW2 broke out and baseball died again.
Players HAVE thrown tantrums and walked off the field... Several instances...
Every team DOES consist of randomly thrown together players who have never played with each other. Rosters change not only ever season, but all throughout the COURSE of a season as well. There are 25 men on an MLB roster. But about double that number of individuals will participate on that team during games over the course of a season.
Now because all these things DO occur in baseball, and on a regular basis, there are very strict rules in place that keep competitive integrity the focus. They have drug testing, they banned Pete Rose from the baseball period for betting on games (regardless that he never "threw" any), they have age limits for players now, the way players can move around on rosters within a team and from team to team is heavily regulated, baseball has a huge number of things in place that are in place for the SOLE purpose of maintaining competitive integrity. Many of these rules hold true even all the way down to little league (You don't let a 14 year old play on an 11 year old all star team, etc).
League has NOTHING like this. Not even ONE thing designed with the sole intention of maintaining competitive integrity. Which is why this game has none. The closest thing we got to having something implemented for the sake of competitive integrity was limiting diamond and up recently to Solo/Duo only, but this was done well after all the problems manifested and persisted for 10 months. So implementing it moving forward for the rest of this season does nothing, the damage has already been done and high level play was completely thrashed. The thing about this complication is that it causes a trickle down effect: Since diamond level play has become, quite simply, silly as hell, many players are choosing to play on smurfs. And really it started higher than those of us in diamond. Professional and challenger players don't want to play at the top of the ladder because of many of the same issues and the massively increased queue times. So they all smurf in diamond. So diamond is now a grab bag of boosted silver players, legitimate diamonds, and smurfing challenger players. There is NO way to create fair matchups for players in this range because of this so many players just opt to follow the professional players' leads. We smurf in lower levels too. And so on down the line until this problem becomes so pervasive that no matter what point you pick on the ladder you encounter it, the complete lack of competitive integrity.
U R Good At Game1 votesYou mean it punishes everyone for selfish play? The mid or feed mentality only works because the entire team is punished if he feeds. So it supports selfish play..... If my team didn't get punished by not letting me go mid, "mid or feed" wouldn't work lol.
Baseball is an irrelevant example anyway. It's been declining since ww2 because of what your suggesting league does and support lol.
Let's use an actually relevant sport like football. NFL representing diamond+ which already has the old system so we'll use college football to represent bronze through plat. Everyone's role is set. Players have played months+ with each other before any ranked or official play including an unofficial scrimmage commonly known as a "spring game". Teams barely change through the entire season and even through season's the main line-up can see little change. Teams know each other and their styles. Teammates more or less cooperate and have a common interest in winning and putting the win above selfish things such as scoring the actual touch down. Leaving the field is banishment from the sport in most cases on the spot and throwing tantrums can be grounds for long term suspension and banishment.
As soon as you apply these to bronze - plat LoL, you can have solo/duoQ back.
jaymc11305 votes[{quoted}](name=C9 FlamezZ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ELcVMlWb,comment-id=000100010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-20T07:33:34.007+0000)
You mean it punishes everyone for selfish play? The mid or feed mentality only works because the entire team is punished if he feeds. So it supports selfish play..... If my team didn't get punished by not letting me go mid, "mid or feed" wouldn't work lol.
... What? The team is only punished if they refuse to work as a team in lobby with the old style and put everyone on optimal roles and champions. Or if they give into an elo terrorist instead of simply dodging it. Mid or feed has never worked. Ever. Only an idiot chooses to play with some on who actively decided to troll in the lobby. If you CHOOSE to play with such a troll its your own damn fault for playing and losing that game when you were given an option to avoid it entirely. Elo terrorists have only ever had the power stupid players allowed them to have.
Baseball is an irrelevant example anyway. It's been declining since ww2 because of what your suggesting league does and support lol.
A sport that saw its hey day within the last 2 decades was declining for 70 years before that? Do you have ANY idea what the revenue stream was like for baseball in the steroid era? It dwarfed every other sport. Ok, clearly you were trolling this whole time. Well played, ya got me, I fell for it. Nice troll mate.
U R Good At Game1 votesHa this is why we have game designers and not forum crawlers operating the wheel.
Your logic: Dodge or accept defeat vs trolls. XD. Yep lemme just get this 1 hour queue, lp loss and series loss just because someone said mid or feed. With your logic, I could say mid or feed every champ select and freely fuck people out of queues and lp because they are retarded if they don't dodge.
So who is the real troll? XD. Thank god for game designers.
jaymc11302 votes[{quoted}](name=C9 FlamezZ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ELcVMlWb,comment-id=00010001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-20T08:03:29.502+0000)
Ha this is why we have game designers and not forum crawlers operating the wheel.
Your logic: Dodge or accept defeat vs trolls. XD. Yep lemme just get this 1 hour queue, lp loss and series loss just because someone said mid or feed. With your logic, I could say mid or feed every champ select and freely fuck people out of queues and lp because they are retarded if they don't dodge.
So who is the real troll? XD. Thank god for game designers.
The real troll is you still mate. I win games with trolls, I dodge sometimes to avoid them. And I'm aware that LP, promo series, and anything related in any way shape or form to the League System has NOTHING to do with the ladder at all. It's literally an irrelevant cover sheet for the ELO system. Dodges cost you nothing but time, LP doesn't even matter below D1. MMR is the only thing that matters. Get your MMR inflated enough, win a streak of games, you skip promos entirely. Ez Pz. I don't know any one who attempts to climb by playing promos, I manage to skip more than half of mine each season. Hell, there are times where I will auto dodge the first game of a promo series on general principle since you are always handicapped in promo games (opposing teams have a higher average and collective MMR) just so I can win the game I'm NOT handicapped and earn my skip instead. Gold 3 100LP with a 6 game win streak and an MMR+ of 250? Nope, not playing that promo game if I hit it. Auto dodge, win game 7 of the streak, earn my skip to Gold 1.
The only thing you are proving so far here in this debate is that trolls have only the power you allow them to have. You have none over me mate. None. But good luck trying if ya want.
U R Good At Game1 votesIt says your a season 4 silver with no ranking in the current season. but that's none of my business.
jaymc11302 votes[{quoted}](name=C9 FlamezZ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ELcVMlWb,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-20T08:17:32.318+0000)
It says your a season 4 silver with no ranking in the current season. but that's none of my business.
LMAO! Does it?
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Likeamaws
Does it?
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=oobestevenaoo
Does it?
Man not only are you trolling hard, you're NEW to the boards too! Only brand new to board posters have no idea who I am. Lmao, wow.
Feel free to check my boards profile and posting history. You can find all the screenshots of me on these accounts and several others you could want. Ahhh hahahahaha. Jesus, nice try mate. Nice try though. You gave it your best.
jaymc11302 votes[{quoted}](name=C9 FlamezZ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ELcVMlWb,comment-id=00010001000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-09-20T08:24:31.282+0000)
Ah so you were forced to a new account to reset your mmr instead of the climb or were you banned and evading the ban currently?
Neither. JayMC is my boards posting account. Has been for 5+ years now. When you become widely known under one name its best to avoid confusion and just keep posting under that name. Some board users have changed names a dozen times in the last 6 years or so (BFNA comes to mind) but mine will always stay the same.
jaymc11302 votes[{quoted}](name=C9 FlamezZ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ELcVMlWb,comment-id=00010001000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000004,timestamp=2016-09-20T08:27:50.224+0000)
Also, if your diamond then dynamic Q "shouldnt" affect you, making your post on the matter contradictory. Also, I would hope a "diamond" would have a mmr high enough to skip gold promos and go on gold win streaks. Seeing how bronze thru gold is basically the same thing with little tweaks appearing around gold 4.
Who said I was fighting for this cause because I'm so heavily affected? I've been affected yes, but I'm not doing this for me. I adapt, I learn, I overcame those challenges this season. Many others, however, are still suffering unduly, and regardless of their skill level I have their best interests at heart. I TOO want for them to play in fun, fair, competitive games. I TOO want them to have an enjoyable experience which I know isn't possible because of DQ. I TOO want the things they want for themselves because a happy community is a long lasting community, and a long lasting community means I get to keep playing this game. And unhappy, dying community kills this game. If the game dies I have nothing to play all day. Its in my best interest to support the best interests of all players for this reason.
Edit: You might want to refrain from posting for a while, the mods have not taken kindly to your troll. If you do post keep it on topic and related to the discussion being held in this thread. If not the mods may do something rash and silly. Par for the course for them. Some guy calls me brainless and says he'd stick his dick in my mouth a week ago? Perfectly acceptable post, its allowed to still be up. You say some rather silly things but nothing that crosses the line? Deleted posts and potential 1 day ban incoming. Great job as usual mods.... well done... sigh.
Xonra2 votesNo offense but I don't know what linking those accounts has to do with anything. It is pretty easy to just link an account that isn't yours. Not saying you are but, the amount of people that claim it makes it a bit ...eh. I mean the accounts don't even share the same most played champs, or even close really.
I mean, mostly Eve on one, and not even anywhere on the other. Only one champ is even shared between them at all which is Ahri. The people recently played is not shared. Literally nothing there shows that would be the same person at all.
Even the runes and masteries have different naming conventions for the most part.
Xonra2 votesThat's the thing though, they 100% catered to the casuals. Not even the "low ranks" like you stated. IT was even worse, because what they were catering to and targeting was those that DIDN'T EVEN PLAY RANKED, not those that were low elo. They wanted people that didn't play ranked because "wah can only play with one friend" to suddenly join ranked. That in turn did increase the low ranked population to be fair (which actually made it worse for those of us trying to climb out of low ranked being teamed with those casuals that don't actually care about ranked).
The amount of "I don't care about ranked bro, it is just a game" people I have seen this season has like tripled since Dynamic queue, so it isn't just negatively impacting higher ranks.
A lot of the hardcore people trying have cut their playing time by a lot, leaving nothing but the "dude bros" playing with their friends like it is a normal.
Xonra3 votesNo it isn't. Bronze and Silver is more than half of the RANKED playerbase.
More than half of League's playerbase doesn't actually play ranked, and THAT is what Riot was ceterting to (so it is actually worse than your assumption). Riot wanted more people in ranked, and they targeted the players that grouped up in normals but supposedly didn't play ranked because they could only duo.
They got what they wanted, but the ranked players got a middle finger for the most part. Everyone seems to keep spouting about "Riot catering to silver players" when they catered to 1) a bigger audience than that and 2) a much worse off group from a ranked perspective, because you should never make changes to a ranked ladder based almost solely off of non-ranked players.
All Skillzz2 votesyou would see alot less boosting with solo Q only cause then the only way to boost would be to play on that persons account. i never had to much problem with duos they had minor impact on the other lanes cause it was duo bot. not fucking qudra jungle top bot lane where you get 4 man ass raped at lvl 3 by tp ganks an tower dives. or mid/top/jungle/support where support roams an camps mid/top and the just fuck every lane up with cordination that is no really possible without voice chat.
Glaedr4 votes[{quoted}](name=All Skillzz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ELcVMlWb,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-09-20T01:46:09.432+0000)
you would see alot less boosting with solo Q only cause then the only way to boost would be to play on that persons account.
How is duo-queuing with a diamond smurf any different from "boosting" by playing with a few friends? You can go look at any eloboosting website and see this is a way people boost without the risk of getting banned. It's not going to be "less boosting", it's going to be exactly the same.
Personally, I'd rather see dynamic queue stay even as a solely solo player. I know the major complaint isn't even about boosting, but about coordinated teamplay. Is it wrong to want to see coordinated team play, whether it's on your team or the enemy's? I don't even look at clubs ingame, so I never even realize the people are queued up together until post-game chat. I never think "wow, the enemies are actually working together, they must be queued up together so I guess we just lose" because I actually try to win and don't blame the enemies for my losses.
jaymc11306 votesHow is duo-queuing with a diamond smurf any different from "boosting" by playing with a few friends? You can go look at any eloboosting website and see this is a way people boost without the risk of getting banned. It's not going to be "less boosting", it's going to be exactly the same.
Personally, I'd rather see dynamic queue stay even as a solely solo player. I know the major complaint isn't even about boosting, but about coordinated teamplay. Is it wrong to want to see coordinated team play, whether it's on your team or the enemy's? I don't even look at clubs ingame, so I never even realize the people are queued up together until post-game chat. I never think "wow, the enemies are actually working together, they must be queued up together so I guess we just lose" because I actually try to win and don't blame the enemies for my losses.
You clearly don't understand how the duo handicap was applied in prior season and how much of an effect it had. Boosters prior to this season almost NEVER used duo queue to boost because of just how difficult the games were. You could take a non platinum player to platinum level play but that was as far as they were getting boosted, period, unless they were a legitimate diamond level talent or grew into one. The duo handicap was that significant. I know this. I've tried to just solo carry others for the sake of board experiments in the past, some of which were even posted, and it just doesn't work. You cannot duo with a silver player to diamond in S/D queue, its just not gonna happen, its too hard to overcome a handicap on 4 other players on your team. You can't boost a player by duoing. You just can't. In order to boost some one you have to assure yourself an advantage in more than one lane/role so that you can carry the weaker player. There are two real ways to do this: Play on the players account assuring your team of one massively advantageous lane/role with typically neutral advantages everywhere else and use that advantage to get multiple other lanes rolling so you can solo carry, or you play with another or several other boosters to boost one person.
You've seen how Neacy is boosting the Delusional Guy? Yeah, hes not doing it duo with him. He's tri queuing mostly. There's a reason for that. Boosting like we see now would die out with a return to solo/duo queue and we would have a return to past boosting methods which are actually significantly easier to combat as Riot regularly bans players who pay for a boosting service and allow others to play their accounts.
Chizzah1 votesI think smurfs are the true issue
jaymc11301 votesI think smurfs are the true issue
Nah, they are just a symptom of the real issue.
The REAL issue is the same as it has been for 6 straight seasons now.
The ELO system. You cannot rank individuals on the ladder in a team game without ever taking into account their individual skill sets and performances. ELO uses W/L ratio in a vacuum. It won't ever function properly for a game like this, which leads to many people smurfing as a way to abuse various ways in which the system fails to their own advantage.
TBH, DQ would have worked out just fine this season if Riot had done ONE thing first: Make your individual skill metrics an important set of data used to help determine your ranking in conjunction with W/L ratio. This way players wouldn't be able to be boosted, they would consistently underperform and this would hold them back. Players also wouldn't be able to smurf in low elo for very long (at least not without intentionally griefing, trolling or feeding in a way that breaks the TOS and opens you up to the possibility of being banned) as their individual skill metrics would move them up the ladder and prevent them from stomping on lower level players for fun. Additionally fringe cases like this one here of LiveYiOrDieHard would be impossible: http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=LiveYiOrDieHard. Bronze 5 ranking. Plat 2 MMR. He manages this by dodging ever promo series. Hes still playing plats and diamonds mind you, since matchmaking is based on the MMR system and not the league system, but it would make this kind of weird oddity impossible as well. And all this without mentioning the benefit that players will no longer be punished for having intentional feeders, trolls and afks on their teams, their individual performances for those games would still count for something and instead of wasting 30 or 40 minutes trying to win your third 4v5 of the day you play your best in the 4v5 and accept that your best will still help you move up the ladder (even if its slower than you want) instead of being a completely wasted effort that leaves you angry and frustrated afterward. Oh, and the grind for all players in all skill ranges would also significantly decrease, it would no longer take an average of 200-1000 games to reach an accurate skill level, but maybe 50. Instead of spending the majority of the season attempting to reach your correct ranking you reach it quickly and get to spend the rest of the season playing against fair competition and working on improving versus players of similar skill.
Smurfing is just a symptom of the actual problem. The actual problem is that the ranking system, by its very design, isn't capable of performing the task it is supposed to perform, which leads to a whole host of other problems cropping up down the line.
Chizzah1 votesThen lets get this party started! Fight for changing how the ranking system works!
jaymc11301 votesThen lets get this party started! Fight for changing how the ranking system works!
I been beating that horse for 4 straight season now. I think its pretty dead at this point. Riot even went and implemented my original proposal for a system to do something like this in a half assed manner when we got champion mastery a while back. They implemented the system I had outlined, basically exactly as i described it, but then chose not to implement the functionality by letting it affect MMR and LP gains and losses.
The bottom line is its going to take a large amount of resources to correct the flaws and design a functional system from scratch. That means its gonna cost money. Money Riot doesn't want to spend despite billions in profits. Riot doesn't care about the health of this game, they don't care about competitive integrity, they don't care about what their customers want, they just care that children keep getting mommy and daddy to whip out the old credit card to shove them dollar bills in Riot's face.
We, as players, have to MAKE Riot care about wanting to please the playerbase. We have to stop paying Riot for an inferior quality product. We have to demand that we, as customers, be treated fairly by refusing to give Riot a cent. That's the only way to get Riot to change their unethical and immoral business practices. As long as they keep making money hand over foot they have no reason to act in accordance with the customers' wishes.
Chizzah1 votesI agree with you bro.. I had this same idea when I still played Age of Wushu/Wulin.. Literally said stop paying and see the change.. The thing is a lot of people have more money to spend on stuff like this so the will.. If all of us were poor but still supported the game as best we can.. Telling the community to stop paying would be an actuall threat.. But some of these dudes here are super rich man lol whales we used to call them in MMORPGs.. Even if only 1% of a billion players are whales that's still a shit ton of income.. So we can't fight the system.. Live and let live it seems..
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesBut theywill never stop getting the money they want. I for example left the CoD franchise after MW2. As soon as i read something about a new title i just started propaganda that people should stop throwing 60-100$ in their faces every year for a game worth 30 maybe. Same with Fifa btw. But you will stil have the diehard fanboys+the kids paying with mommy and daddy credit crd.