How to resolve all of the Dynamic Queue vs. Solo Queue arguments without bringing back Solo Queue;

Dominick Destine·Jul 7, 2016·4 votes·477 views

According to pro-DQ/DQ advocates; The majority of the community prefers DQ.

According to competent human beings; The majority of the community prefers SQ.

The way to fix this would be to have a referendum performed to 100% of the player base within , say 3 days. Publish the results on the forum or even within the in-game client. After that even if DQ wins, I guarantee you the majority of opposing players would be satisfied.

No one is angry that Riot will not give us SQ, we're angry that EVERY SINGLE METRIC OF DATA strongly supports that the players want SQ and Riot is ignoring it, acting against reality for reasons that are impossible to comprehend. Riot hates League of Legends is the only reason that lines up with them violating reality.

Referendum. 3 days. Publish results. Problem solved.

21 Comments

ModWulf HelhammerJul 7, 20163 votes

Every metric of data performed on the biased and miniscule (compared to the whole playerbase) platforms that are boards and Reddit.

If any actual metrics showed that solo queue was more desired as a whole by a large percentage of the playerbase, then it would be here.

Dominick DestineJul 7, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Every metric of data performed on the biased and miniscule (compared to the whole playerbase) platforms that are boards and Reddit.

The data is not "biased", it cannot be.

Second, any sampling of data, as long as it is sufficiently randomized, is representative of the greater group. These are very basic concepts pertaining to statistical analysis, very basic math. I understand that this is the internet where people with zero education (I.e. pro DQ advocates) can make posts as if they have something of value to say, but surely even things my 8 year old nephew understands should be taken as read....

It's called statistical significance. (Ex: Dynamic queue roundtable discussion being massively downvoted by the community is one such metric https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwPa1SGLGv0 ) It's not complicated.

DeathBurstJul 7, 20162 votes

He did not say that the data is biased, he said that the "platforms" are. Way to strawman him.

And "as long as it is sufficiently randomized" is true, but does not apply to people on the boards/on reddit. There are strong correlations between going on the boards/on reddit and other factors that make it a non-representative sample of the general population.

So yeah, great "statistical significance" here...

Oh, and btw, I won't bother replying to the purely emotional insults, but factually, it's false that pro DQ advocates have zero education. I have a Master of Science and I'm currently doing a PhD. I have a strong background in mathematics, and even if stats were not my forte, I have definitely an understanding of it above the average of the general population.

Dominick DestineJul 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

He did not say that the data is biased, he said that the "platforms" are. Way to strawman him.

Fair enough, now explain how "The Platform" is biased then. Explain how "Youtube" is biased against Dynamic Queue.

I could use a laugh while you try to justify that flimsy accusation of 'U STRAWMAN HIM'.

There are strong correlations between going on the boards/on reddit and other factors that make it a non-representative sample of the general population

And of course you can prove these "Strong correlations"....? oh right.... you can't.

By the way, correlation does not imply causation... so that's another very basic/fundamental principle of math that you don't seem to understand.

And "as long as it is sufficiently randomized" is true, but does not apply to people on the boards/on reddit.

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Do go on, your complete non sequiturs and red herrings are almost valid arguments....

DeathBurstJul 7, 20161 votes

The platforms are biased because the people who are active participants on the web are a minuscule minority, that's a well known fact, and I did not say it was biased against Dynamic Q, I just said it's biased, period. As in, not representative of the general population.

And correlation does not imply causation, but that has nothing to do with my point. I'm not trying to prove that anything is the cause of anything. The fact that this subsets of the population are statistically different from the general population, because of these correlations, make these subsets biased.

I can go on, my arguments are entirely valid, not just almost. But full disclosure, I don't hope to convince you, I already know you're an awful troll. I just write for the sake of the other people reading these forum, I wouldn't want them to be fooled by your vaguely scientific-sounding babble.

DehitayJul 7, 20162 votes

{quoted}

The platforms are biased because the people who are active participants on the web are a minuscule minority, that's a well known fact, and I did not say it was biased against Dynamic Q, I just said it's biased, period. As in, not representative of the general population.

And correlation does not imply causation, but that has nothing to do with my point. I'm not trying to prove that anything is the cause of anything. The fact that this subsets of the population are statistically different from the general population, because of these correlations, make these subsets biased.

I can go on, my arguments are entirely valid, not just almost. But full disclosure, I don't hope to convince you, I already know you're an awful troll. I just write for the sake of the other people reading these forum, I wouldn't want them to be fooled by your vaguely scientific-sounding babble.

I don't think you understand what a bias is. It's means data has been corrupted by a hatred for one party or an affinity for one party that doesn't make it an accurate representation. In order for the boards to be biased, there would have been a basis of hatred or affinity built into the boards themselves. The closest bias the boards can even come to is a love for League. I could see why you might think the boards are biased in a League vs DOTA2 thread, but to just say they're biased in general is ridiculous.

And even if they are biased, if there not necessarily biased against dynamic queue as you say, then the bias doesn't even matter for the subject at hand. The only statistical difference the boards have is that they use the boards. They're a perfectly valid subset of the community and probly one of the best ones around really. It's ridiculous how many people try to say the boards aren't an accurate representation of the community when there is absolutely no evidence to prove that. In almost every other game, the boards/forums are considered one of the best places to go to get a good subset of the community. Why the hell would it be any different for League?

Dominick DestineJul 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I don't think you understand what a bias is. It's means data has been corrupted by a hatred for one party or an affinity for one party that doesn't make it an accurate representation. In order for the boards to be biased, there would have been a basis of hatred or affinity built into the boards themselves. The closest bias the boards can even come to is a love for League.

Is this the level that we need to lower ourselves to? Explaining the meaning of simple words to the pro-DQ advocates? /shake head

The above quoted is correct but... maybe I drastically overestimated the intelligence of the pro-DQ advocate side.

The only statistical difference the boards have is that they use the boards. They're a perfectly valid subset of the community and probly one of the best ones around really. It's ridiculous how many people try to say the boards aren't an accurate representation of the community when there is absolutely no evidence to prove that.

No no, logic and reason have no place in the mind of pro-DQ advocates.

DeathBurstJul 8, 20161 votes

I think you don't understand what a statistical bias is. There is no emotional charge or intent behind the word. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias_(statistics) And the fact that the data is biased means you cannot deduce anything meaningful from the data. I'm not saying the general population would say the contrary of the boards, I'm just saying we can't know at all.

And yes, the boards are a biased subset. They are more hardcore, more involved than the general population, they care more about competition, and before Dominik even asks, no, I have no proof, but the simple fact that they bother coming to the boards at all is a good piece of evidence, in the absence of real proof. So of course, if you want to talk with your community, that's the best place and the best players to communicate with. But if your goal is to please the vast majority of your player, to deliver the best game according to the largest number of players, and if your goal is not to communicate, then you should look for a much bigger picture than what the boards show you. You can call that goal "pandering to the casuals" if you want, but that judgment doesn't change the fact that yes, the boards are biased.

Dominick DestineJul 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The platforms are biased because the people who are active participants on the web are a minuscule minority

Any sampling of data, if sufficiently randomized is a representative sample of a greater whole.

Your argument has been refuted and is dismissed. You have nothing, literally nothing, that substantiates your "Bias" claim.

And correlation does not imply causation, but that has nothing to do with my point.

You serious? not sure if troll... it has everything to do with your argument, your entire argument there was literally "Correlation" which in this case, is dismissed on the grounds that correlation does not imply causation.

You claim bias based on some murky claims, even if your argument were somehow correct, it would be nothing more than unlinked correlation. So even if you're right, which you aren't, you'd still have proven nothing.

Basically your argument is garbage.

I can go on, my arguments are entirely valid

No, no they are not. You're jumping from one fallacious, non-argument to another with zero logical argument presented.

I don't hope to convince you

No shit. Your arguments are garbage, you couldn't convince anyone with any level of intelligence that is above the "very low" bracket (I.e. everyone that isn't pro DQ advocate).

I already know you're an awful troll.

Once again, the irony is off the charts.

AramsAreBestJul 7, 20162 votes

HES BACK EVERYBODY

Dominick DestineJul 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

HES BACK EVERYBODY

I never left the forums.

I stopped playing League for awhile though... but it wasn't long after I realized I could play Overwatch during the retardedly long queue times DQ has brought.

DeathBurstJul 7, 20162 votes

EVERY SINGLE METRIC OF DATA strongly supports that the players want SQ

Links/source, plz? Or at least, what "metric" are you referring to? The general sentiment on the public media (boards, reddit, etc.)?

Dominick DestineJul 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Links/source

Dynamic Queue roundtable discussion (27% like / 73% dislike ratio out of hundreds of thousands of viewers). League of legends boards. League of legends reddit. etc.

This is what we call representative samples that reflect statistical significance.

DeathBurstJul 7, 20162 votes

Youtube is the closest thing you have to statistical significance, since it was linked from the client homepage, except that most people don't bother liking/disliking, so it doesn't hold a lot of weight.

Boards and reddit are biased subsets of the population. Not necessarily biased against DQ, but certainly not representative of the general population. Maybe the general population has the same sentiment, maybe not, but you can prove nothing about the general population from the boards/reddit, one way or another.

Dominick DestineJul 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Youtube is the closest thing you have to statistical significance most people don't bother liking/disliking, so it doesn't hold a lot of weight.

And you base those statements on...? oh yeah, nothing.

Dismissed.

DeathBurstJul 7, 20161 votes

On the number of views compared to the number of votes. That was kinda obvious.

Dominick DestineJul 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

On the number of views compared to the number of votes. That was kinda obvious.

Which has nothing to do with the argument you presented earlier.

Do you even representative sample? Do you even statistical significance? Do you even basic math? No, no you don't.

DeathBurstJul 8, 20161 votes

I hate you with a passion, but there is one thing I admire, it's the boldness you display. You can calmly say such huge lies and insult your interlocutor without any regard for the reality, I would never dare doing that.

Dominick DestineJul 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I hate you with a passion

Your "Hurt Feelings" are irrelevant.

You can calmly say such huge lies

I have not lied even once , but good try with that flimsy nonsense.

HyperiönJul 7, 20161 votes

This is exactly what Runescape did when they were to re-release free trade again back in like 2013 or something. A public vote, would solve everything.

Johr DinhJul 8, 20161 votes

If I actually was shown that most of the player base wanted DQ (which u'll still never achieve cuz someones always gonna be out assuming fudged results) then i'd prolly stop bitching and just accept that I have to play this game in a much less fun and enjoyable manner. It's made high elo matchmaking super sloppy, it's made low elo matchmaking a shit fest of cliques just running around trolling for kills easier. But whatever, i'll watch more LCS and just play less I guess no biggy.

I say they make it so you can't even log in without answering whether you like SQ or DQ better, or another option for having no opinion I suppose. Also they need to explain what Dynamic Queue is with the question, cuz most people still think it's just champ select. (Shows how much people in this community are invested into the game I guess lol)