Not quitting, but taking a break

RookPusher··4 votes·1,966 views

I'm writing this in the event that someone at Riot who cares about customer experience reads this.

I've complained a lot about the game over the years and while I haven't wavered from many positions, some realities I can work around. A few remain that I not only can't move past, but I also feel like is a larger issue beyond just myself.

  • Incentivize Normals.

If everyone were decent, people would only play ranked when they were prepared and when they wanted to climb. Everyone isn't decent, though, and without any real incentive to play Normals, people are making decisions based on subjective self-interest. If you want a low stress game, maybe you play Normals. If you want to troll, you get more bang for your buck in ranked.

Heretofore, these are some of the prime movers in terms of ranked selection. My problem here is that customer satisfaction (CS) isn't being valued correctly, because it's assuming queue time is a major component of CS. But if you apply that to other sectors, it doesn't add up. McDonalds is faster than Ruth's Chris, and while people might say they're satisfied with both, that doesn't mean they value each product equally.

To resolve this issue, you should do the following:

Ranked no longer provides chests, levels, keys, or quest completion Ranked no longer gives you BE Normals no longer has Autofill Normals should gain "All Except" fill option meaning they can select 4 roles instead of 2 or 5.

The goal here isn't obscure. Make Normals a place where games come quick, fun is expected, and non-winning goals are accepted. Ranked, conversely, should be a sparse game mode that provides a merit-based evaluation of your player. Nothing more.

So long as Normals is ranked-lite, you're going to have substantially more behavior problems.

  • Fix Matchmaking

You can't fix matchmaking until you incentivize Normals, in my opinion, because until you pick off the low-hanging fruit of the non-try-hards you can't mitigate the risk of people showing up to not win. Eliminating even 30% of the non-serious players in ranked would be a marked improvement. I don't blame people for wanting to complete quests, but if they do it in Ranked (to me) that's trolling.

Therefore, as it currently stands, disparities in ranked play and talent seem heightened because someone who is 3 brackets below you and isn't trying isn't the same as someone who is three brackets below you and is. They know their champs, they read a guide, they've played with them before, they're familiar with matchups.

For actionable items, you need to start considering champ selection in LP assignments. No amount of measuring is going to determine if someone is good. Period. No exceptions. So we don't need to determine how good someone could be, but how familiar they are with what is bad. Mastery mandates are often met with some amount of pushback for the usual, beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt reasons. "What if I'm on my alt and I select a champ with no mastery!" the folks cry, defending the .02% that both smurfs, and shouldn't be thrown into traffic.

This is resolved by adding modifiers to experience with a champ.+/-2/3/5 LP if you're Master 5/6/7 on wins and losses. i'm old and I'm tired of a broken system, so I'm not going to argue with people on this issue. Take it or leave it. I've heard all of your arguments before "But what if the trolls play until Mastery 5?!?!" I'm sure you're capable of doing the math. Those rare trolls who enter into ranked, despite no incentives, and who play enough until Mastery level 5 so they don't lose as much LP can squeeze in an extra game or two. Good for them.

The lock on the door to your house doesn't keep all intruders out. But it creates enough of a barrier that it keeps most folks from trying. This is the same concept.

  • Separate DuoQueue

I play with people in LoL a lot. It's usually the same two guys but occasionally there's a larger group.The advantage of being on the same page as your allies is as much of an advantage as picking a champ you've played 5 times before is trolling. Which is to say it's an advantage/trolling that is currently not given the appropriate weight to it's effect on game outcome.

I personally notice this advantage most painfully when the top lane and the jungler are not only on Comms but have synergy. I would guess that you could climb out of your bracket with ease if a majority of your games had this combo simply because of geography. Top is the easiest to get into a base, it has the Herald, and even if the enemy jungler is competent, they aren't constantly camping top lane.

Again, this is predicated upon both Incentivizing Normals and Fixing Matchmaking. Having duo's go to Flex doesn't fix anything without the other two.

  • Create Ranked Bans

Finally, you need to find a way to let people know that while they can play the game however they want, if they choose their own path, and it leads to multiple failures, then they need to reconsider things because it's tantamount to trolling. I've made this accusation a few times here, so I think it warrants explanation.

If you run down lane and die repeatedly. We think that's detrimental to game play and you get banned. If you take Smite while being the support. We think that's detrimental to game play and you can get banned. If you tell the enemy what your team is doing. We think that's detrimental to game play and you get banned.

All three of those examples don't blow up a nexus. But statistically they result in a loss. But so do playing champs you don't know and trying strats with items that don't work. So why isn't that bannable?

This shouldn't lock in a meta. If you win, then there's no problem, and even if wins come intermittently, I don't think that should be met with a Ranked Ban. But the game needs a way to tell players, who seemingly don't get that they're part of the problem that, in fact, they are the problem. You could measure this against all other players win records to say "jeez, these other guys are at least winning 30% of their games, and you're not...so..."

Ranked Bans should be that. A 3/5/10 game benching from Ranked - but not Normals - to suggest to the player without preventing them from improving that they need to go back to the drawing board. What I find funny about this suggestion (and I've made it prior though mostly as a resolution for Bronze 5 where you can't suck your way to a lower devision) is that they went forward with Chat bans, despite A.) having a mute function and B.) chat being the least problematic portion of toxicity (AFKs, and feeding being worse).

If you're willing to ban chat, why not try ranked. Where it matters?

  • Conclusion

As I mentioned, I'm having fun doing other things these days. I'm not fiening for a return and part of me hopes something here will at least be discussed at Riot HQ. I honestly enjoy the hell out of this game when I think it's fair. But in the currently landscape of constantly shifting champs, item OP levels, and dumb metas that focus on big plays over strategy I don't find the game either fun or fair. Working my tail off to lose because of an AFK is one thing - to have it go unpunished is another.

I'd like to return someday and I hope I can do so in a more equitable, merit-based MOBA.

19 Comments

Quiet Dude4 votes

I normally like to shit on most "Im quitting/taking break league" posts because its usually filled with illogical and obtuse bullshit, and is filled with folks circle jerking those things.

That being said-

Gonna give you credit here, this is the first** reasonable** "why im going" post I've seen in a long time, because it's actually constructive and hits on things that could be improved on.

I wish you well sir, and I would also like to see these things added in.

Slythrin Umbreon2 votes

Ranked no longer gives you BE

That's a bit crazy, and really shits on low rank players entirely :s I mean the chests part isn't great, but this actually might make playing ranked not worth it at all, possibly for every single player below Gold and a lot of the ones in Gold too...

RookPusher1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slythrin Umbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EKcZtEPZ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-09-11T15:44:29.197+0000)

That's a bit crazy, and really shits on low rank players entirely :s I mean the chests part isn't great, but this actually might make playing ranked not worth it at all, possibly for every single player below Gold and a lot of the ones in Gold too...

I'm saying this as a low-ranked player, but to clarify, you're suggesting that asking low-ranked players to play more ranked is the answer?

usul12021 votes

1: you're not incentivizing normals, you're punishing ranked.

2:i honestly see relatively similar matchmaking between ranked and norms. No idea what you've got here.

3: duos would be at a significant disadvantage in flex, and they're already compensated in solo/duo by having a higher combined mmr.

4: riot explicitly does not enforce a meta. Ever. If you're trolling, you'll be punished. If you're doing your best to win, you will not be. It's a pretty simple system.

RookPusher1 votes

{quoted}

1: you're not incentivizing normals, you're punishing ranked.

2:i honestly see relatively similar matchmaking between ranked and norms. No idea what you've got here.

3: duos would be at a significant disadvantage in flex, and they're already compensated in solo/duo by having a higher combined mmr.

4: riot explicitly does not enforce a meta. Ever. If you're trolling, you'll be punished. If you're doing your best to win, you will not be. It's a pretty simple system.

  1. This is a matter of perspective. I believe the status quo punishes ranked. Why should quest seekers be in here with me trying to climb?

  2. I don't know what this is referring to. I didn't refer to a disparity. Did you only read the headers?

  3. Do you play the game? Duo's already exist in Flex. You can't play as a foursome...I'm beginning to think this is a troll post.

  4. Explain to me, then, why they banned Support Singed with Smite and a strong winning record?

usul12021 votes

1: Well, no it's not a matter of perspective. Literally, removing rewards from 1 q to encourage people to play for another is punishing people for playing that q. Incentivizing would be putting more rewards on normals.

Either way, the hyper bad people playing for quests and such will help your climb, not hurt it. 5 chances for them on the enemy team, 4 on yours.

2: I didn't word this one as well as I should have, I'll fix it here. Normals, which never have any restrictions and are far more lax on their mmr spread, I've found, have about the same quality of matchmaking as ranked. I do not see how moving people from ranked to normals would make any change.

Again, the idiots first timing and whatnot help your climb as they're more likely to be on the other team.

3: duos can, yes (i didn't say anything about 4?), but if you've played this game at all you'd know that the competitive environment there is severely lacking. They're closer to normals than ranked solo/duo.

4:support singed was not banned for off meta. His ban was for forcing his entire team, and especially his lane partner, to play his style, fuck what they want and their happiness. He failed to communicate or work at all with his team, and was being reported in a vast majority of his games even in wins because he ruined the game experience.

RookPusher1 votes

{quoted}

1: Well, no it's not a matter of perspective. Literally, removing rewards from 1 q to encourage people to play for another is punishing people for playing that q. Incentivizing would be putting more rewards on normals.

Either way, the hyper bad people playing for quests and such will help your climb, not hurt it. 5 chances for them on the enemy team, 4 on yours.

2: I didn't word this one as well as I should have, I'll fix it here. Normals, which never have any restrictions and are far more lax on their mmr spread, I've found, have about the same quality of matchmaking as ranked. I do not see how moving people from ranked to normals would make any change.

Again, the idiots first timing and whatnot help your climb as they're more likely to be on the other team.

3: duos can, yes (i didn't say anything about 4?), but if you've played this game at all you'd know that the competitive environment there is severely lacking. They're closer to normals than ranked solo/duo.

4:support singed was not banned for off meta. His ban was for forcing his entire team, and especially his lane partner, to play his style, fuck what they want and their happiness. He failed to communicate or work at all with his team, and was being reported in a vast majority of his games even in wins because he ruined the game experience.

Your arguments keep shifting. Does Riot not enforce the meta or do they without communication?

Are duos at a significant disadvantage in Flex or is it non-competitive?

Am I punishing ranked? Or do we actually want baddies to join it so they might get on the other team?

Look, I can appreciate that you're contrarian, but I didn't cook up these opinions last night after a losing streak. I've been advocating for some or all of them for awhile now. You coming in here and throwing half-assed arguments at me isn't going to cause me to abandon my beliefs.

  • If ranked is to be a measure of skill - then make it that.
  • If match making is designed to be the ideal between quantity and quality - then don't skimp on quality
  • If solo queue is meant to test skill - don't give some folks an advantage
  • If we're going to punish people for doing things that consistently lead to losses - don't apply that rule haphazardly.

All of those are fairly straightforward prospects. Once agreed upon the question becomes "ok, but how." I've proposed solutions, and I'm happy to argue about the specifics but a negative position, which only amounts to no solution/pro-status quo won't cut it.

The proposals listed here have a positive CBA in terms of the result of the changes they suggest.

usul12021 votes

Oh, sorry I just didn't restate arguments that you didn't respond too, and continued to make more. If you'd prefer I repeat me self let me know.

Riot does not enforce a meta. Riot does enforce rule #1: don't be a dick to other players. You can learn more about the singed thing and riots policy on it here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/79aGu3wR-support-singed-isnt-banable-but-thats-not-the-point

Duos are both a disadvantage in flex versus a 5 man (but relatively similar to a 3. I guess bit/supp/adc is a bigger jump but w/e), and I personally have not met anyone who takes flex anywhere near as seriously as ranked.

You're punishing ranked. If you don't want to play with baddies, climb. They dissappear pretty quick.

We're at odds here, because your points here feel really half added and I don't think that your methods would result in the goals you're asking for.

Ranked currently is a decent measure of skill, you are the only consistent factor in your games (minus your duo if you duo), so over a decent sample size you will reach your skill-earned rank. Things that consistantly lead to losses are punished, it's called bronze 5. Things that win are rewarded, with higher quality matches or very uncomfortable challenger jackets.

The only major "quantity vs quality" argument that I have seen argued with serious basis is autofill, which is a direct "q time to get more games vs getting main roles in said games".

RookPusher1 votes

{quoted}

Oh, sorry I just didn't restate arguments that you didn't respond too, and continued to make more. If you'd prefer I repeat me self let me know.

Riot does not enforce a meta. Riot does enforce rule #1: don't be a dick to other players. You can learn more about the singed thing and riots policy on it here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/79aGu3wR-support-singed-isnt-banable-but-thats-not-the-point

Duos are both a disadvantage in flex versus a 5 man (but relatively similar to a 3. I guess bit/supp/adc is a bigger jump but w/e), and I personally have not met anyone who takes flex anywhere near as seriously as ranked.

You're punishing ranked. If you don't want to play with baddies, climb. They dissappear pretty quick.

We're at odds here, because your points here feel really half added and I don't think that your methods would result in the goals you're asking for.

Ranked currently is a decent measure of skill, you are the only consistent factor in your games (minus your duo if you duo), so over a decent sample size you will reach your skill-earned rank. Things that consistantly lead to losses are punished, it's called bronze 5. Things that win are rewarded, with higher quality matches or very uncomfortable challenger jackets.

The only major "quantity vs quality" argument that I have seen argued with serious basis is autofill, which is a direct "q time to get more games vs getting main roles in said games".

I'm getting the impression you just want to win. "You're the only consistent factor" has nothing to do with decent behavior modification. Incentivizing ranked is about making sure ranked is for serious players. It doesn't say anything about how good they are. You'll recall I referenced people being in the same bracket (a measure of their skill) though with different goals.

It seems like you've come to the understanding of why I mentioned the 4 player thing in Flex. If you were assuming duos play against 5s then yeah, I guess that would be a disadvantage. I play with 3's, meaning I get paired with 2's. In my experience, when I play 5's it generally feels like we're against other 5's.

I assume with your (repeated) "consistent factor" rehash you mean to suggest a Ranked Ban isn't intelligent. To which I'd respond if they're banning people (outright) for performances that correlate with losses, are you suggesting that throwing, AFKing, or toxicity should also not receive a ban?

To me it's either/or. If Punishment A = loss, and therefore ban, then Punishment B which equals loss should receive the same result. Euclid's First Axiom: Things which are equal to the same thing are also equal to one another. You can't have cafeteria punishment systems.

usul12021 votes

I'm actually a completely a for fun player, I play ranked to get rewards then play normals only. I enjoy even, compete tuve matches though.

The "you're the only factor" was focused on your comment about ranked being a measure of skill. I'm on mobile and formatting to show what I'm responding to can be difficult, sorry. I would guess that in game you would call me out for not taking ranked as seriously as you. I keep it casual, I make jokes, all that. Always play to win (I just want my border ffs), but take it chill.

I'm not sure how different attitudes end up affecting your match quality. If I play completely for fun (anivia supp, AP koggles mid), then Id end up about a tier down. If I did that a lot, I'd be playing competitively with them. If I started first timing junglers, consistently I'd be down at like, silver 5 or something. And I'd fall there pretty quick since that's the skill level I play with. And gold players and whatnot would think "damn, that guy sucks hard" for the 10 games I'm in their elo.

If yall have both played a statistically significant number of games, then your goal is irrelevant, just your play quality.

The only times I've done flex have been as 5 or as 1. I know as 5 we usually weren't against 5, and as 1 I faced a few 5s. Tho, our elo spread was huge for our group, so we mighta broke something. Still, I have not found duoing in soloq to be such an advantage that it breaks the system and deserves to be relegated to casual flex play (except master/challenger. That's a touchy one)

Intentional throwing, toxicity, and afking are both independent of mmr, can happen at any elo, and tend to ruin the game for everyone involved. Unlike being bad and losing a lot, which is just a player moving to their true mmr, this is intentional, and thus deserves a punishment.

I don't think win/loss should he a reason for a ban. I've won 4v5s in ranked, I've also lost lp for wins when my apartment lost power. Win/loss is decided by your game play skills. Punishments are decided by actions and intent (generally. I'm in agreement that things like encouraging suicide have little to no safe context with strangers)

RookPusher1 votes

{quoted}

I'm actually a completely a for fun player, I play ranked to get rewards then play normals only. I enjoy even, compete tuve matches though.

The "you're the only factor" was focused on your comment about ranked being a measure of skill. I'm on mobile and formatting to show what I'm responding to can be difficult, sorry. I would guess that in game you would call me out for not taking ranked as seriously as you. I keep it casual, I make jokes, all that. Always play to win (I just want my border ffs), but take it chill.

I'm not sure how different attitudes end up affecting your match quality. If I play completely for fun (anivia supp, AP koggles mid), then Id end up about a tier down. If I did that a lot, I'd be playing competitively with them. If I started first timing junglers, consistently I'd be down at like, silver 5 or something. And I'd fall there pretty quick since that's the skill level I play with. And gold players and whatnot would think "damn, that guy sucks hard" for the 10 games I'm in their elo.

If yall have both played a statistically significant number of games, then your goal is irrelevant, just your play quality.

The only times I've done flex have been as 5 or as 1. I know as 5 we usually weren't against 5, and as 1 I faced a few 5s. Tho, our elo spread was huge for our group, so we mighta broke something. Still, I have not found duoing in soloq to be such an advantage that it breaks the system and deserves to be relegated to casual flex play (except master/challenger. That's a touchy one)

Intentional throwing, toxicity, and afking are both independent of mmr, can happen at any elo, and tend to ruin the game for everyone involved. Unlike being bad and losing a lot, which is just a player moving to their true mmr, this is intentional, and thus deserves a punishment.

I don't think win/loss should he a reason for a ban. I've won 4v5s in ranked, I've also lost lp for wins when my apartment lost power. Win/loss is decided by your game play skills. Punishments are decided by actions and intent (generally. I'm in agreement that things like encouraging suicide have little to no safe context with strangers)

I can't help but feel as if you're approaching my arguments from a position of "I don't deserve the rank I have." What I've listed in the OP comports with Riot's existing policies and extends them to logical conclusions. If LP adjusts based on MMR, why not other factors like experience? If you can fall out of Ranked Silver by going to Bronze, why not let them fall out of Ranked Bronze by falling out of ranked for 10 games?

The argument that "eventually you'll be where you deserve to be" strikes me as a cop-out against actual behavior regulation. Which I think everyone would agree isn't as robust as it needs to be. The suggestions I'm listing above are low-impact despite the hysterics you see on the forum. And yet they would have a significant improvement shown in player quality. I hear "who cares about trolls, the law of big numbers rules here." That's not really how life works, nevermind well-regulated games.

What I feel like you're not taking into account is this:

  1. Players hit 30 and jump straight into ranked
  2. There's really no feedback system for those players save for currently being added to silver and falling if they suck (i don't know how Silver deals with this).
  3. There's no way to fall out of Bronze.

Those things, on their face, aren't a problem necessarily. It's how they work in conjunction. Now, personally, I find Riots lack of action here to be irresponsible but rather than complain I've suggested the above actions to resolve major portions of this.

If you're approaching these suggestions as a fairness issue, then at least do me the courtesy of knowing that's not the goal here, and I don't think fairness is an issue the game needs to address more than it already is.

At the end of the day, here's the bone of contention I have with Riot: Some of us are lucky to get a game in a day. Between work, hobbies, school, and relationships, there are times where you're looking to get a Ranked match in between obligations. I think Riot should do more, so that those of us who love the game but don't have the "8 matches a night" schedule we used to have still enjoy the game.

If you do have 8 games a night then I can understand why you don't think there's a problem. If I had 8 games a night I'd also be less concerned about the jerk in 12% of my games as opposed to 100% of my games.

To me, it sounds a lot like Riot is saying "Tough shit, old man. Your gaming days with us are over." I'm saying, based on both experience and history, these solutions offer us a path to giving everyone a shot, 1 game, 8 games, 18 games...it doesn't have to be this way.

usul12021 votes

what exactly is the point of removing people from bronze 5? (assuming thats what you meant, since falling out of silver to bronze is only doable at silver 5, so that would be the logical comparison. Since we have had a disconnect all talk i figured i should clarify)

How is that a cop out? its completely true, and doesnt take as many games as many believe, apart from the super super outliers. I dont believe your inputs are low impact, and infact i find them very negative. the whole m7 thing is pretty bogus, seeing as m7 adds 0 indication that you are good at the champ, and throwing around weights in an MMR system makes it abusable, if you understand how elo is calculated.

In an elo system, new additions are added at the 50% mark. you cant add people at the 0 (bronze 5) because then there is no distinction between new players that are bad, and new that are really bad. especially at the beginning of seasons when they mmr crush, it would destroy matchmaking balance.

I still fail to see why you would want someone to be able to fall out of bronze. b5 is the bottom, the worst players. they're only playing with the other 'worst players'. they dont affect anyone else, and if they get better they'll then play against b4s.

I'm a grad student. you can see by my playtime i cant binge through games, I really dont play much outside of weekends. 133 ranked games this season was more than enough for me to climb an entire tier plus decay games. thats an average of a game every other day throughout the season, even if you dont focus those into ~3 games on a weekend. And thats only if you play to climb. If you're playing for fun then congratulations, just by playing you've achieved your goal. Some people do that in ranked, because as part of their fun they enjoy the competitive environment more. So why would you punish them with not being able to play ranked because they'll never be able to buy a champion again? (referring back to the OP)

I'll never hit master tier, thats for people who have the time. But i sure as hell plan to hit d4 or even d3 next season, even with my limited time. Unless you're at like, 1-2 games a week you have the time to climb.

RookPusher1 votes

{quoted}

what exactly is the point of removing people from bronze 5? (assuming thats what you meant, since falling out of silver to bronze is only doable at silver 5, so that would be the logical comparison. Since we have had a disconnect all talk i figured i should clarify)

How is that a cop out? its completely true, and doesnt take as many games as many believe, apart from the super super outliers. I dont believe your inputs are low impact, and infact i find them very negative. the whole m7 thing is pretty bogus, seeing as m7 adds 0 indication that you are good at the champ, and throwing around weights in an MMR system makes it abusable, if you understand how elo is calculated.

In an elo system, new additions are added at the 50% mark. you cant add people at the 0 (bronze 5) because then there is no distinction between new players that are bad, and new that are really bad. especially at the beginning of seasons when they mmr crush, it would destroy matchmaking balance.

I still fail to see why you would want someone to be able to fall out of bronze. b5 is the bottom, the worst players. they're only playing with the other 'worst players'. they dont affect anyone else, and if they get better they'll then play against b4s.

I'm a grad student. you can see by my playtime i cant binge through games, I really dont play much outside of weekends. 133 ranked games this season was more than enough for me to climb an entire tier plus decay games. thats an average of a game every other day throughout the season, even if you dont focus those into ~3 games on a weekend. And thats only if you play to climb. If you're playing for fun then congratulations, just by playing you've achieved your goal. Some people do that in ranked, because as part of their fun they enjoy the competitive environment more. So why would you punish them with not being able to play ranked because they'll never be able to buy a champion again? (referring back to the OP)

I'll never hit master tier, thats for people who have the time. But i sure as hell plan to hit d4 or even d3 next season, even with my limited time. Unless you're at like, 1-2 games a week you have the time to climb.

That's a lot so I'll address the points of major contention:

  1. It's a cop-out because presumably Riot cares about customer satisfaction. If so, then people deserve to join ranked to compete. If you joined a travel team for a sport and someone didn't know the rules, the response really wouldn't be "eventually he'll leave."

  2. I want them to fall out of Bronze 5 because it's a corrective method. If you've ever been B5 you'd know you can play 100 games in a row and its incumbent upon you to figure out if you're the problem at the expense of every teammate you have. The game tells everyone else when they've failed because they bracket out. Except B5.

And no, it's not only comparable to Silver 5. You receive a pop-up every time you drop a tier.

  1. You continue to write as if this is a commentary on who deserves to be where. I'll repeat, this is a system to improve the quality of the matchmaking system and ranked in general.

  2. What you "feel" is up for debate so I'll let others decide. But if you wouldn't mind elaborating on what kind of impact you think these suggestions - once implemented - would have, it might create more dialogue.

Good luck in grad school. I finished in May and it's a new lease on life.

usul12021 votes

i'd count soloq as a game of pickup at the gym more than a travel team. instead of being kicked, you'd be asked to go play with a worse group (since we're in a big-ass gym with millions of players). Back wen there were ranked 5's i would count that as a travel team. (RIP Clash)

If you're in B5, you're not adequately trying to improve. absolutely anyone can get out of b5, and i firmly believe that seriously applying yourself and taking advantage of the tons of resources out there can get anyone out of bronze in general. But thats not the point, if you're in B5 you either know you suck or you're the type who will only say 'my team holds me back' and they would say that as they got 'demoted' out.

However, this still would not increase the quality of ranked games. i'm going to scale your proposal up, since it makes the math a lot easier. Please let me know if anything im saying should not scale, as it all does as far as i can tell.

Scale: Lets remove all of bronze, since they're lowering matchmaking quality (doing all of bronze instead of just bad b5's since i know that bronze is 30% of the game pop, rather than an odd 5% or whatever it would be). Immediately, the elo system would begin to spread people out again. silver 5 would become bronze 5 and 4. S4 would split into 4 and 3. S1 would becomes ~S5ish, i think with some above and below. Why? Because the way an elo system is designed it moves the lowest end of the playerbase to one end of the MMR scale, and the high end to the top end. you can make modifications to bin size (d5+ is ~2% of the playerbase, compared to B1-'s 30%), but if you keep the same scale then you'll get the same spread. NOTE: Match quality has changed in absolutely no way at all. former S1 players are still playing with former S1 players, now it's just happening in S5.

So, matchmaking is the same, but ranks are now lower, making people not earn rewards that they would've before (note: if this is just b5 then people lose like, 25 lp or something small overall, but still. it makes your climb take even longer)

What if it wasn't bronze 5 we removed, but anyone at any elo that isnt 'being compete\itive enough', a quantity that im going to leave vague, since i dont think its quantifiable. If these players are equally distributed at all ranks, it does nothing. you're still playing against the exact same level of players, at the same rank. it doesnt increase the quality of matchmaking since even those players reached relatively near their target mmr. If these players are distributed more at the low end (since more competitive players are more likely to climb) then everyone falls 5% of their rank, and matchmaking continues to be the same.

This was a whole lot more than I intended to type, so i'll TL:DR it to keep my point concise. Removing people from ranked based on performance will have 0 effect on the match quality of matches due to everyone still playing with their own skill level players. It won't create an incentive to improve because the people that are there already do not want to.

RookPusher1 votes

{quoted}

i'd count soloq as a game of pickup at the gym more than a travel team. instead of being kicked, you'd be asked to go play with a worse group (since we're in a big-ass gym with millions of players). Back wen there were ranked 5's i would count that as a travel team. (RIP Clash)

If you're in B5, you're not adequately trying to improve. absolutely anyone can get out of b5, and i firmly believe that seriously applying yourself and taking advantage of the tons of resources out there can get anyone out of bronze in general. But thats not the point, if you're in B5 you either know you suck or you're the type who will only say 'my team holds me back' and they would say that as they got 'demoted' out.

However, this still would not increase the quality of ranked games. i'm going to scale your proposal up, since it makes the math a lot easier. Please let me know if anything im saying should not scale, as it all does as far as i can tell.

Scale: Lets remove all of bronze, since they're lowering matchmaking quality (doing all of bronze instead of just bad b5's since i know that bronze is 30% of the game pop, rather than an odd 5% or whatever it would be). Immediately, the elo system would begin to spread people out again. silver 5 would become bronze 5 and 4. S4 would split into 4 and 3. S1 would becomes ~S5ish, i think with some above and below. Why? Because the way an elo system is designed it moves the lowest end of the playerbase to one end of the MMR scale, and the high end to the top end. you can make modifications to bin size (d5+ is ~2% of the playerbase, compared to B1-'s 30%), but if you keep the same scale then you'll get the same spread. NOTE: Match quality has changed in absolutely no way at all. former S1 players are still playing with former S1 players, now it's just happening in S5.

So, matchmaking is the same, but ranks are now lower, making people not earn rewards that they would've before (note: if this is just b5 then people lose like, 25 lp or something small overall, but still. it makes your climb take even longer)

What if it wasn't bronze 5 we removed, but anyone at any elo that isnt 'being compete\itive enough', a quantity that im going to leave vague, since i dont think its quantifiable. If these players are equally distributed at all ranks, it does nothing. you're still playing against the exact same level of players, at the same rank. it doesnt increase the quality of matchmaking since even those players reached relatively near their target mmr. If these players are distributed more at the low end (since more competitive players are more likely to climb) then everyone falls 5% of their rank, and matchmaking continues to be the same.

This was a whole lot more than I intended to type, so i'll TL:DR it to keep my point concise. Removing people from ranked based on performance will have 0 effect on the match quality of matches due to everyone still playing with their own skill level players. It won't create an incentive to improve because the people that are there already do not want to.

I have no problem with the way the system distributes people mathematically. Are we talking past one another? Who gets placed where is not a problem, and I'm satisfied with the way the current system works.

I guess I don't know why that is still your response. I see this conversation as following:

"Here are some ways we can mitigate shit heads in ranked" "If you're good you'll climb" "Yes, but people in ranked should be in ranked for a measure of their skill" "I do ranked to get rewards" "Alright...but the point is if you want rewards, you have goals auxiliary to climbing" "Throwing people out of Bronze will have no effect on them" "Then why does it work in other brackets?" "If you're good you'll climb"

usul12021 votes

No, I just really like examples when talking a point. I'll try better to connect them back to topic here.

"if you're good you'll climb": shitheads only play with shitheads (and, as in my last post, they're not going to commit to improvement, especially the very bottom of the ladder).

"I play ranked for rewards": this one was just a comment on player type. The rest of my post was about how the ranked ladder effectively gets people against others of similar skill in a realistic time frame, meaning that people playing for a measure of their skill will get it.

"throwing people out of bronze will have no effect": a direct response to how riot is mitigating you as a player who does not have time for a lot of games. I'm directly answering your OP (in the context of your last 3 paragraphs) that your 'solution' would not help your problem at all.

The last 2.....didnt happen? No where does it work in other brackets. In fact, that was my last post, that no matter if you remove just bronze or people from every division, it does not increase matchmaking quality at all.

I'll get back to the original post though, if that helps. As per my examples above, I do not believe your ideas would improve matchmaking. I do believe that they seriously punish players who only want to play in a more competitive environment by removing their ability to earn new Champions and other rewards, punish players who want to play with a friend competitively, and would negatively impact lower ends of the player base without any gain through the ranked bans idea.

RookPusher1 votes

"if you're good you'll climb": shitheads only play with shitheads (and, as in my last post, they're not going to commit to improvement, especially the very bottom of the ladder).

I've been meaning to address this so I'm glad you brought it back up. I'm taking this to mean that Bronze will never improve so who cares if jerks are down there. Can you clarify this? I'm sure that's not what you're saying.

As for the gist, it seems like you want your cake and to eat it as well. Almost universally posted on this board is the argument that people don't train enough with their champs. There's no way to mandate that, but there is a way to incentivize normals (which i'm calling training) here by saying "hey look, if you want a new champ, play Norms" and then they get all the new champs they normally would.

The system as it currently is allows for, and people take advantage of, people rolling the dice in ranked on champs they don't know well, and if they feed, at least they got BE. The risk is small and the reward is larger. We need to balance that.

Staminaking1 votes

You should remake this post because you have good idea, just change the thread title to something appealing. Riot won't do anything because they could care less but you could still get a top thread with great ideas.

RookPusher1 votes

{quoted}

You should remake this post because you have good idea, just change the thread title to something appealing. Riot won't do anything because they could care less but you could still get a top thread with great ideas.

Thanks, my friend. But I did and it went no where. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/tP170kT8-4-ways-to-fix-ranked-in-the-coming-seasons

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