Diversity is ruining this game more than it’s helping

BALDG1VEN BOOMER··14 votes·1,349 views

At first I was on the notion of “Heck why not? Let’s see if it’s fun to have different champions in different roles”

Hahaha wrong.

Let’s start off top lane. Top laners simply don’t like the idea of ranged champions in their lane, they exert too much control over their lane and usually results in the melee champion just sitting at their turret farming and having a non interactive lane.

Same way Graves, Lucian, Lulu, Viktor, Kennan and more recently Zilean top were all considered toxic to top lane because of how much pressure they exert is the same way other lanes don’t like it when bruisers or tanks go to their lane.

Mid lane, same way bottom laners don’t want mages is the same way top laners don’t want them they’re simply not equipped to deal with them keep your mages in mid lane. Same way Corki, Lucian, Irelia, Yasuo, Urgot, Gallo, Sion were all considered unhealthy in mid lane due to mages lack of ability to deal with them is the same way top laners feel when a mage is headed top they aren’t equipped.

Bottom lane, but wait a minute bot lane has only been marksman they NEED diversity REEE. No, mid lane has been predominantly mages and top lane has been predominantly tanks/fighters and bruisers (or simply melee) yet we don’t hear constant complaints about how other things should be in those lanes.

Same way top laners didn’t like Lucian and Graves and mid laners didn’t like Corki and Lucian is the same way bottom laners don’t like fucking mages in their lane. Mages have more burst in a short span and with most Marksman having about 20 MR to start off the game they take a substantial amount of damage early. Champions like Zyra and Brand are dealing nearly 60% of your HP in one rotation of a combo while sustain of most Marksman have been gutted.

Conclusion, diversity has failed this game on many levels. Most of the non-binary and off “meta” things were simply too oppressive for most people to deal with simply because the said class excelled too well at their job in an off role. Same people who scream bottom lane needs diversity are the same people who would scream something else needs a nerf if it ever touched top or mid lane and it’s fair to say the game is better off with what is considered a “standard” play rather than this current nonsense.

When champion select doesn’t even become recognizable that I have no idea who I’m laning against there’s an issue.

EDIT: Here are some Zilean top reactions, but Riot will most likely say “We WaNt ZiLeAn ToP tO sTiLl bE a ThInG”

28 Comments

OtterlyLost4 votes

I mean, you're not wrong. That's why it always confused me when people demanded "diversity" for bot lane. Okay? Do you play bot lane? No? What does it matter then??? And if bot lane has to be diverse, why doesn't top or mid? Why does top or mid get to only allow bruisers and tanks or assassins and mages? How is it fair that ADCs, who can only go to one lane, are expected to be "diverse" and not complain when anytime some other champion is "diverse" and goes somewhere else, the people who actually play that lane complain. I'm looking at top lane specifically and anytime anything that isn't melee is meta. Viktor, Cassio, Vayne, anytime there's anything like this its not called "diverse" but "oppressive." So in what twisted, malformed logical head space were these top laners in when they started bitching about "diversity" for bot? They have a lane. Its their lane. Why the hell does it matter if they don't have a second or a third? God knows that traditional marksmen have gone season upon season only having one lane and being gutted and shoved out of any others because "oppressiveness."

I'm fine with diversity but only if it means every lane is required to have a semblance of it. That means, no, you don't get to pick and choose what champions are allowed in your special sunshine club, top laners and mid laners. You want your champions in bot lane so bad, you're gonna have to deal with marksmen going to your lanes instead.

Sir Saltarin2 votes

Diversity on this game is a problem the moment it becomes meta.

BALDG1VEN BOOMER2 votes

I wasn’t against it at first but it’s a clear issue now and even Riot promotes it with their nonsense “Is it meta” video which pretty much promotes inting to some degree.

Arcade Lulu2 votes

Get mages out of botlane!

Saezio1 votes

Diversity is ok as long as it's just marksmen having more roles and not anyone else.

We have had marksmen in top jungle mid and bot in some patches in the past. Why not go through a meta with 4 mages being a viable teamcomp.

BALDG1VEN BOOMER2 votes

It’s not just Marksman. Mages who end up going top or support end up getting shafted because they’re simply too good same way Lucian, Corki, Quinn all got shafted in solo lanes.

OtterlyLost2 votes

Varus and Ezreal too; they aren't allowed to go midlane anymore. I used to play Varus mid quite a lot in season 5 but he hasn't been good there for a long long time.

Saezio1 votes

But, I bet you are not cool with playing vs 2 mages bot lane?

OtterlyLost2 votes

No, I'm not, because playing against one mage is one thing; there's only one set of skillshots to dodge and keep track off and, in season 5, mages actually had mana costs and didn't get access to a million and one items with CDR. Back then, Zhonya's didn't give both armor and CDR; it just gave armor.

Going against two literally means you have to play perfectly your entirely laning phase because if they hit you with one of there stray and super low CD skillshots, they're both just going to pile drive you into next week. Which, if the mages are smart, they're just going to pummel you everytime you have to stop and AA a minion. That's called Trading Stance and its manageable when its only one mage hitting you with one skillshot compared to two mages who can no unless a full rotation on you. :)

Saezio1 votes

Well, in that meta in season 5, mages were trash. Did you advocate for them losing their main role to urgot ez varus because the meta was a sieging meta? Also, during the whole 2 mages bot era (more like patch) adc were still the dominant picks bot and there were still 2 marksmen topping bot win-rates. Kai'sa and lucian So, now that the game has become fast paced, isn't it only normal that early game champions will be better than late game champions? I think the meta is the problem and the paper-towers, along with the huge gold amounts we get faster than ever. If laning phase was actually laning phase, and not race for the top of the map for who gets the most kills roaming bot, then marksmen would more reliably hit their late game status. Also another factor is that there are no tanks any more (except sion who for some reason remains a beast but the only viable tank) for dps to be needed in teamfights (when I say teamfights I mean those 4-8 second interractions between the 2 teams)

OtterlyLost2 votes

For one, mages weren't trash in season 5. I remember season 5 and they were the most common thing I faced if and when I went mid.

For two, if I went Varus mid, I played him as AP building a Nashor's first and then going into straight AP after. Also how I know mages weren't trash; because I preferred to build AP on an ADC instead of AD.

For three, didn't Ezreal also build AP when he went midlane?

For four, I don't remember Urgot even existing as a thing; he was like big foot. You thought you saw him(and when you did, it was usually top) but you weren't sure after the game because he was that irrelevant.

For five, how is an ADC going mid even remotely similar to two mages going bot lane? Mage spells naturally out range ADCs AA's and even as AP Varus, there was a ton of AA involved. So even if a mage faced an ADC mid, it was a fair fight. I AA the enemy Syndra twice for like... a 150 damage maybe? And she'll spawn a ball in my face and stun me for half of my health bar if I'm not playing absolutely perfectly. Clearly very similar to an ADC and Support trying to desperately survive against two mages with unlimited mana and CDR.

For six, sure, it makes sense for a fast meta to favor early game champions. So maybe you can explain to me why the entirety of season 8 top lane was filled with champions like Jax, Fiora, and Aatrox, who all scale well. And why mages like Cassio and Karthus are suddenly problematic, both of which are known for being amazing late game. Its okay for ADCs, who are supposed to be "late game" to be garbage in a fast meta but completely reasonable for multiple other hyper carries in other roles and lanes to be completely over tuned and out of sorts. Because that makes sense.

Here's the reality. The game is getting faster. Riot is actively trying to make the games faster meaning they are not going to make them longer. Which means late game is now 25-30 minutes. Not 35-40. It makes sense to me, if the late game has moved from its usual position, that late game champions move from getting their powerspikes at 35 minutes to getting them at 25 to 30. Otherwise, they need to start taking a sledgehammer to all of the other "late game" champions that are currently running over this game so that our early game overlords can be in charge.

So this whole idea of "late game" needs to make a huge shift in people's minds. Because late game isn't in the same spot as it used to be. Its now where midgame is.

Saezio1 votes

I am talking about the muramana midlaners ez end varus and old urgot. They were extremely strong with tons of poke. Your ap varus I have nothing against. And no ez was AD too with trinity muramana. The thing is, if they made late game champs hit their spikes earlier, the early game bullies would need to either be also stronger late or be compensated with even more agency early. Do people even like so fast paced games? At least turrets should not be this useless early :( Maybe I am just too old and want a more relaxed and controlled game to suit my personal flavour and my routine, For all I know there are young people that just started league and are all "Come on this game is great but i wish games were not so long and macro oriented" So, maybe this is all just a matter of preference

OtterlyLost1 votes

No, in season 5, Ez mid was specifically AP because he was broken with Runeglaive. And in Season 5, which is the season I am talking about, Armor pen was not a common build on any ADCs. Lucian brought that into existence at the end of season 6 which is a whole 'nother kettle of fish from season 5. And in season 5, urgot was barely played and usually if he was played, it was by a dedicated main and in the top lane. .-. Because he was a joke champion.

Saezio1 votes

[deleted]

Saezio1 votes

{quoted}

OK I found a cool page that helps with this. Ez ad mid was picked a lot in competitive during the end of season 4 and the entirety of season 5. You can check here the pickrates of marksmen in all roles since worlds 3. And you can compare that to non-marksmen in the bot role. For example there are 220 times varus mid was picked across the top regions in the midlane.

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*couldn't find how to link before xD

Saezio1 votes

I never saw Ez nerfs because he was too good in jungle and mid when his intended role was bot though. I saw item nerfs not straight up Ez nerfs.

Sir Saltarin3 votes

I never saw Ez nerfs because he was too good in jungle

Ez jng was killed by the Q early dmg nerfs and his base atack speed, it was nerfed for that.

and mid

Ez Mid was meta for like 2 patchs due to Runeglaive or whatever the name of that ap jng item was and it was literally removed to prevent him being meta on Mid.

Your examples are perfect, but for exactly the opposite of what you are defending.

Saezio1 votes

You are saying that Ez mid was viable for 2 patches only? Well, Item nerfs, that affected tons of other champions that were not op with that sheen jg item instead of millions other ways to ensure ez is not viable in the jungle. (maybe reduced damage to monsters on Q)

We had a whole season of AD caster mids being pick/ban. Ez, varus, old urgot. They weren't made unviable over a patch. You don't remember the comps with 4 ADCs EVEN IN COMPETITIVE?

xDogMeatx1 votes

how about make upgradable items and champs have more scalings (ap riven/stacking tear using a stoic mana not being used system but can scale being possible). so that it isnt the same boring builds

boricCentaur11 votes

Honestly what are the benefits of diversity like the only ones I can think of is people can play there favorite champions more and you see different teams more but both of those I have huge of negatives like one leads to more one tricks and they both make the game more complex then it needs to be.

In my opinion the majority of champions should only have one role and there should be few who have multiple roles like from my point of view it leads to better balance, it is easier to learn for new players and people who want to learn a different role, and it encourages people to play different champions.

Laura ß1 votes

Bringing a mage botlane or any champion to a lane they are not supposed to be should be high risk high reward, instead its low risk very very high reward.

G0blinSlay3r1 votes

We have this old saying when it comes to coding, "keep it simple stupid" too much complexity creates complications.

so u want 1000 champions? enjoy balancing. something riot hardly gets perfect.

ADC Yuumi1 votes

It's not really diversity, but the surplus of forced diversity. Sometimes it flops: Ivern RekSai But way much more does it become too much: Pyke Ekko Camille Taliyah Neeko Sylas

And with the much more blessed ones, they become unstoppable dominators.

RekSai CoffeeCo1 votes

Not really seeing any diversity since scuttle changes sorry.

Titanium701 votes

Diversity is good but what you described are flexible champions!

Flexible Roles are usually caused by overloaded Champions. While most Champs are able to deal with one or two different playstyle there are others who simply so strong/overloaded/uncounterable they can deal with everything. (You mentioned them)

And those do not improove diversity, they kill it. Since at some point you can only play them or those who directly counter them. Aka: Every second game Yasuo = Lissandra becomes vibale.

Diversity means you can play ANYTHING and get some somewhat decet game with! From skillshot based immobile mages, to tanks, to scaling ADCs.

It does not mean that one Champ like Lucian can go Top Mid and ADC, win lane and carry the game!!!

Syrile1 votes

Honestly, diversity is not a problem. The game is more fun with more champions being viable in more roles. The problem is when the game is so utterly unbalanced because of front-end damage burst and hyper mobility. But I do agree that Riot's "Please int feed in your games" video was ridiculous. Off-Meta is fine. But hinting that you are not punished (and proving it every day) for griefing your team is disgusting.

WeeWeeBojangles1 votes

IMO The thing that ruined the support role was the removal of sightstone. You had to start the game with the 350 (now 400 gold support item) Then you could either upgrade the support item for 500 to get more gold or spend 800 on a sightstone. This meant that champions like brand, zyra, lux etc Werent going directly into AP Items because they had to spend 800 for frostfang plus an extra 800 to be able to place wards. Now they spend 850 gold, get a gold income item, ap, cdr, mana regen, and wards. Then they can go directly into their ap build. Who needs an actual support when you can just one shot the enemy adc, support, or midlaner with a full combo? BRING US SIGHTSTONE BACK!

JhonTeemon1 votes

Diversity is our strength!

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