This new BC man really, 20%? Why? Why should characters like Riven who already benefit from having relevant auto attacks also be given access to what is essentially just massive ability spam. I don't understand, it already seems like Riot doesn't balance around the 20% cdr on Morello/Athenes why would they make this change just to push x champs over the edge.
Variks the Loyal6 votesIt's not to push anyone over the edge. The new Cleaver is meant to favor AD Casters like Garen, Darius, and Renekton. They don't auto attack very often, only between casts, so the Rage passive helps them keep up. The CDR helps them use their abilities more often.
Then, Riot removed the flat penetration and some of the AD to make it less desirable to champions who frequently auto attack, like Riven or Yi. Champions like Riven with lots of dashes, or Yi with lots of MS, won't get as much use out of the new cleaver because the Phage part is much less worth it.
Think about the build path. In lane, Riven wants an early Brutalizer or Tiamat, either for the penetration and CDR, or the waveclear and auto reset. Phage brings nothing for her. The movement speed is useless, she already dashes everywhere. And don't make me laugh and tell me she'll build the Kindlegem first. Phage only gives 20 AD, compared to a Brutalizer's 25 or a Tiamat's 40. She'd be better off with a Pickaxe than a Phage.
If anything, this is an indirect nerf to Riven. Say Riven builds the new BC first. She'll have put herself behind early, because Phage doesn't give her that much power. She won't have as much AD than if she built Hydra or Ghostblade, so her shield will count for less. She won't have the penetration that Brutalizer provides, so her enemy laner can hard counter her build and outdamage her with an early Sunfire Cape.
No, this new BC won't make Riven an issue. She'll be the same as she always was, just getting a Ghostblade rather than Cleaver.
If it does prove to be an issue, riot will nerf her.
ZzEslIolZQ1 votesIt's not to push anyone over the edge. The new Cleaver is meant to favor AD Casters like Garen, Darius, and Renekton. They don't auto attack very often, only between casts, so the Rage passive helps them keep up. The CDR helps them use their abilities more often.
Then, Riot removed the flat penetration and some of the AD to make it less desirable to champions who frequently auto attack, like Riven or Yi. Champions like Riven with lots of dashes, or Yi with lots of MS, won't get as much use out of the new cleaver because the Phage part is much less worth it.
Think about the build path. In lane, Riven wants an early Brutalizer or Tiamat, either for the penetration and CDR, or the waveclear and auto reset. Phage brings nothing for her. The movement speed is useless, she already dashes everywhere. And don't make me laugh and tell me she'll build the Kindlegem first. Phage only gives 20 AD, compared to a Brutalizer's 25 or a Tiamat's 40. She'd be better off with a Pickaxe than a Phage.
If anything, this is an indirect nerf to Riven. Say Riven builds the new BC first. She'll have put herself behind early, because Phage doesn't give her that much power. She won't have as much AD than if she built Hydra or Ghostblade, so her shield will count for less. She won't have the penetration that Brutalizer provides, so her enemy laner can hard counter her build and outdamage her with an early Sunfire Cape.
No, this new BC won't make Riven an issue. She'll be the same as she always was, just getting a Ghostblade rather than Cleaver.
If it does prove to be an issue, riot will nerf her.
This is the point, this change will serve no purpose but lead to the nerf of w/e champ will start abusing it. Yeah, cinderhulk is OP but it served the purpose of trying to bring back a class of junglers that have been dead for 6 months. What purpose does this new BC serve? Besides giving AD casters more mobility and easy CDR.
Variks the Loyal1 votesYeah, it'll give them more mobility and CDR. And nothing else. You missed the point of my post.
If Riven, for example, builds new Cleaver, she gains the mobility (Which is not valuable to her at all because she has 4 dashes+Flash), and the CDR. She loses either Armor Penetration, crit, active AS and MS, and AD, or loses Health Regen, wave clear, an auto reset, Life Steal, and AD.
Less AD means weaker shield. Less Penetration means less damage. Less crit means less luck. Less Health Regen means less lane sustain. Less wave clear means less bully potential.
The new Cleaver is not worth it for Riven, because it doesn't provide stats she wants besides CDR. Now she'll just always build Ghostblade or Hydra, like they pretty much do now.
The new BC gives more options to fighters who opt to build tanky rather than damagy. Phage's MS will help Darius and Garen with being kited. It'll help Rek'sai and Renekton spam their abilities more. It'll help Skarners who don't build Triforce chase enemies. And it'll provide others with tankiness in the form of health.
Voluug132 votesBecause more CDR on manaless champions means less down time on laning, and thus means more LC$BIGPLAY$.
Nilok1 votesSimply fix, put a mana tax on it so they stay (slightly) away.
If you add a small amount of mana to it, it is no longer as slot efficient for manaless champions. Unless it is stupidly efficient, it won't be part of their main build and instead something they build when they really need it.
Sir Yamazuki2 votesI don't see Riven, or her friends, buying Black Cleaver, she/they typically buy Ghostblade.
Erockandroll1 votesDefining ability spam as something only mid lane mages with Athene's or Morelo's should have.
Seriously. AD Casters do need some levels of CDR, Particularly the Bruiser type. and if a few champions get pushed over the top with the change, they can be nerfed on an individual level.
ZzEslIolZQ1 votesI actually hate what Athenes and later Morello's did to the game for 2 seasons, effectively turning all APs into non stop no risk spam bots. I guess it's too much to ask that people be forced to think before clicking an ability.
IcyPepper1 votesIt's not like they deal 400+ damage with a right-click late-game.
Each class has their options and building paths for different things. There's cdr tank, support, mage, and even the occasional AD item somewhere... 
found it!
And you better watch yourself, calling mages non-stop no-risk spam bots. Even with Athenes and Morello, they can run out of mana. And it ain't pretty...
USG Morta1 votesi like how everyone is talking about riven while ignoring the elephant in the room
