@Riot: Warlords Bloostlust and Grasp of the Undying

Dreadlocks·Feb 24, 2016·6 votes·1,553 views

Are you guy's at all worried about how overlapping these 2 keystones are? In all seriousness, you mentioned Olaf and Aatrox being 2 champions you see taking the new Warlords and I cannot agree with you more. However, where does that leave grasp? Grasp is extremely good right now, especially in the top lane as it adds a significant amount of sustain needed for most top lane trades. However, with the new lifesteal on warlords, i'm afraid Grasp is going to lose its popularity all together.

Is this a problem to you at all, or am i just not seeing what you are. >.>

14 Comments

Lazypeon100Feb 24, 20165 votes

Grasp won't be held back based on missing health and scales better defensively as your damage output doesn't matter for it. It also has the in battle 4 second timer while warlords does not.

I think they ocupy the same kind of goal, but for very different champions.

YumaS2AstralFeb 25, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Grasp won't be held back based on missing health and scales better defensively as your damage output doesn't matter for it. It also has the in battle 4 second timer while warlords does not.

I think they ocupy the same kind of goal, but for very different champions.

This.

Champions like DrMundo and Malphite would rather get Grasp of the Undying, while a bruiser could potentially get Warlord's Bloodlust.

EzraTwitchFeb 24, 20162 votes

They aren't overlapping because the lead up to getting them is alot different.

Also when are bruisers like say nautilus or Illaoi EVER going to take warlords over grasp.

DreadlocksFeb 24, 20161 votes

They could honestly every time.. To be fair, u still get 50% of the bonus on MINIONS meaning, with just Vampirism, Runic Armor, and new Warlords, you can sustain in a hard match up w.o having to actually trade with your lane opponent.

Lazypeon100Feb 24, 20161 votes

They would lose out on a bunch of the defensive options for masteries that will largely only help them in the lane phase.

Would make them much weaker late game if they aren't damage oriented (and actually use autos) already.

DreadlocksFeb 24, 20161 votes

They would lose out on swiftness/legendary guardian.. thats it. You can still put 12 points into the tree and get the other shit. Grap+/- doenst count cuz we're comparing it to Warlords.

Lazypeon100Feb 24, 20161 votes

I think you're underestimating how big those are. Also, look at how the two keystones scale. One is very clearly meant for people for lots of ad and as, the other is meant for tanks who need more sustain. Also if they were to go for warlords bloodust they cannot opt to go 12 into cunning if they stil want the defensive masteries.

DreadlocksFeb 25, 20161 votes

I'm not underestimating them at all, you are overrating them both. Merc treads are getting buffed next patch which makes swiftness even less needed. And legendary guardian isn't THAT great.

Lazypeon100Feb 24, 20161 votes

To be fair, I wouldn't classify nautilus as a bruiser. He's a full on tank with his kit :P.

Sightless66Feb 24, 20161 votes

Plenty of champions that want to be tanky and want lane sustain but don't make good use of lifesteal will still use grasp. For example, if I'm playing someone like Mundo, or Sion, or Malphite, or Nautilus, am I really going to want lifesteal over grasp? Definitely not. The benefit is way worse for me than the benefit grasp provides because my low autoattack dps gives me no real ability to sustain significantly with it, and grasp will scale much, much better for those champions as the game goes on. I can't even use it to get through a bad matchup because the trading power I give up opens me up to even more bullying than the sustain prevents. Even for bruisers like Darius or Illaoi, grasp will still probably be better in almost all cases because it fits more with their build and their highly ability-based damage.

I'm not seeing a problem. A few champions that used grasp before will switch to Warlord's, but most won't. There will be champions with a clear preference for one over the other. That's fine.

DreadlocksFeb 25, 20161 votes

I'm going to have to disagree. I think your point would be more valid if there wasn't a 50% effect for minions too. Meaning, I don't even have to trade with someone to sustain, with grasp, you do.

Sightless66Feb 25, 20161 votes

Almost all tanks will be getting almost no sustain from that. If you're at 75% health, you'll have 2.5% lifesteal against minions. At 50%, you'd have 5%. For someone without high autoattack dps, that's almost nothing. It's not enough to keep me in any lane that grasp wouldn't also keep me in, and it will lose me some lanes that grasp could have won. If I don't have grasp, my trading isn't as efficient, so it's easier for my opponent to bully me. Additionally, it becomes completely useless as the game progresses (whereas grasp stays useful). These are not insignificant costs.

I wouldn't buy lifesteal on a tank, and I won't take lifesteal in a mastery on a tank.

Meaning, I don't even have to trade with someone to sustain, with grasp, you do

You're not sustaining enough to keep you in a lane where you would be unable to trade, and if you're not trading at all, you're losing no matter which mastery you have.

Seriously, I can't think of a lane this would help me in. Usually if I'm losing on a tank, I'm not hitting creeps much and I'm farming with abilities or under tower. If I'm doing something else, my enemy is incompetent and I'm not losing to them in the first place. The mastery wouldn't give me anything in those situations, but that's also the only situation it gives me any benefit in because the lifesteal isn't present when I'm healthy and I don't do enough autoattack dps to sustain myself in actual trades. I see no benefit, except in situations that don't happen.

I'm sticking to my guns. Virtually all tanks will not use this mastery. I do not have a single doubt about that statement.

Jungle Lux GodFeb 25, 20161 votes

The thing is, even though the two masteries are sustain-based masteries, they are sustain-based masteries for two different kinds of champions.

Warlord's Bloodlust is for champions that build some AD and auto attack a lot. This includes bruisers like Aatrox or Olaf and marksmen like Tristana or Jinx (although I wouldn't say it's particularly ideal on most AD carries).

Grasp of the Undying is for champions that either build full tank (eg. Mundo or Malphite), build like an AP bruiser (there aren't any really good examples, but Rumble might consider this, but it's not ideal), or build like an AD bruiser but don't necessarily auto attack a lot (eg. someone like Garen or Darius).

This also doesn't include the fact that some of the masteries that precede these masteries might affect which one you want. Choosing between 18/0/12 vs 12/0/18 makes you choose between armor penetration and slow resistance/tenacity, while 18/12/0 vs 0/12/18 gives you harder choices because of the rest of the tree is so dramatically different. 18 in ferocity gives you a lot more damage while 18 in resolve gives you a lot more tankiness, and that choice can dramatically affect which of the keystones you can use.